Taking kids out of school...

[Sheilby]

That law only changed start and end dates. The mandate before it cut half days and still applies

The law changed start and end dates and gave local schools the ability to choose either 180 days OR 1080 hours. There are schools in Alabama that only have 177 school days.

 

[Sheilby]

Yes, it's like the family forced to take trips at certain times of year.

What it is NOT like is the family that can choose any week of the year they wish, and the week they choose is during school. THAT, is quite different. Mind you, it's not as if I don't get the appeal. But, if your reason for Disney during the school year is strictly perference (as is the case for many), go. Go have fun. Just spare me the lecture on "importance of vacation" if that's the situation.

What? I think you misunderstood me (or I'm misunderstanding you). I was talking about the principal that excused absences for hunting but not for family vacations. A PP said that was because hunting season only happen during the school year and vacations can happen at any time. I was pointing out that hunting seasons in different parts of the country happen at different times and if the kid wanted to hunt he could go during a non-school period but it would cost more, just like the vacation would when the kids are off from school. It is a complete double standard for the principal to excuse one reason and not the other.

As for the importance of a vacation, I hardly think it is a lecture for people to state their opinion that they think vacation is just as important as school. You might disagree, and that is fine, but many people believe it to be true.

 

[Sheilby]

Until the state dept of Ed says different I'm going to follow their memo that goes out every year reminding schools that half days don't count.

Gee, a department of Ed sending out the wrong information, I never would have believed it.

Half days may not be able to count as full days for the 180 days designation there, but since the law clearly states that it is 180 days OR 1080 hours it doesn't matter. As long as the school hits 1080 hours they are fine.

http://blog.al.com/live/2012/05/state_superintendent_favors_18.html

 

[Sheilby]

Sorry... a trip is a trip. Don't get me wrong--I'm one of those that's going in September for the lower crowds, and I fully admit it. It's not a learning trip any more than going to a grocery store is a learning trip. But--a hunting trip isn't any more (or less) necessary than a trip to disney or anywhere else. If one is excused & the other isn't--it's a double standard. You don't HAVE TO go hunting.

And to me--it's better to take a kid out earlier in the year, vs. later when it might be tied into another break (holiday or professional day, whatever). Lots of time teachers will do a test right before those days. And I wouldn't do it every year either. Everyone has different lines/rules they won't cross.

My parents never took us out of school for trips. I was always jealous of the ones that did. There's more important things in life than making sure that the school meets their attentance quota (which was definately what was emphasized when I called to tell them about my daughter). My kid being there (or not) will not make or break their 95% attentance goal.

I totally agree with you, except for one thing. A grocery store trip is TOTALLY an educational trip. You should see the things we crazy home schoolers do on grocery trips

 

[CaffeinatedMama]

Hey everyone! We want Disney to be an annual trip for our family, but didn't really think much about my DD starting kindergarten this year. We are taking her out of school for 2 weeks in November (but since one of the weeks is over Thanksgiving, it's more like 7 1/2 days). We always go the same time every year, with Thanksgiving week being the pool/relaxing time and the week after our Park time. My DH thinks for future trips we should just cut out the second week, that way she would only miss 2 1/2 days of school - but I am very nervous about the Parks Thanksgiving week. Just wondering if there is anyone else who takes their kids out of school more than a week for Disney and find its a problem. Also, is thanksgiving week really that bad?! Thanks!

My daughter is in 3rd grade this year. Last year in 2nd grade we left for a WDW week arriving the Sat of Thanksgiving weekend and did that whole week after Thanksgiving. Crowd and weather wise it was awesome!

Our district has a policy specifically for school year vacations. A week is ok, but once you hit 2 weeks in my district you have to provide an explanation AND proof of residency again.

Her 2nd grade teacher said it was ok and that the early grades are the ones to do it in but once they get older its a bigger hit to them academically. I did ask for a packet of homework and school work for the week ahead of time and got it. She had it done and turned it in the day she got back.

Monday of this week I admit I was terrified to notify her new 3rd grade teacher I'd be pulling her out for a whole week in just 2 more weeks, so early in the year. I told her I was afraid to tell her and she to me not to worry, she'd put together a school work packet for her too.

Off season is the only time I can afford or even want to go. There is so much that kids can learn and experience there. Epcot and Animal kingdom alone provide a wealth of learning opportunity. Not only that we spent time learning to save money in a jar, count it, ways to conserve around the house to be able to have spending money. Make it fun and educational!

And for WIW there will be lots of folks you'll see there with school age children doing the same thing.

 

[Alexle2007]

So I just booked a Surprise Disney cruise for Oct for an awesome price and wrote the letter to my DS6 2nd grade teacher to let her know. Now to hold in my excitement so my son doesn't catch on.

 

[cheer25mom]

Gee, a department of Ed sending out the wrong information, I never would have believed it.

Half days may not be able to count as full days for the 180 days designation there, but since the law clearly states that it is 180 days OR 1080 hours it doesn't matter. As long as the school hits 1080 hours they are fine.

http://blog.al.com/live/2012/05/state_superintendent_favors_18.html

You don't get it. An internal memo went out that in order to use the instructional hours clause, those hours must be in blocks of at least 6 consecutive instructional hours. No half days count towards the total. PERIOD. Yes, Mobile County LENGTHENED their day to meet the requirment, but no one is allowed to SHORTEN the day to less that 6 instructional hours. No school in the state is allowed to count a half day towards thier total of either days or hours. Honestly, I don't get why proving me wrong is so important. I KNOW what I am talking about becuase I actually work here. I see the paperwork every year for submitting calendars to the state department for approval, and every year it is clearly explained that half days DO NOT COUNT. No calendar that does not meet either the number of days or hours without counting half days will be approved.

 

[Gracie09]

I just want to pop in here and say something about hunting. For some its a vacation but for others its a matter of food. I have a friend that relies on the meat she gets from her husband hunting. They also raise chickens and have a huge vegetable garden to can veggies, but the vast majority of their meat comes from the moose her husband hunts. Eventually her son and daughter will join him if they want. But not all hunting is a fun vacation so missing a few days of school so you have some meat on the table is ok in my book(not that it counts really) even more so than a week at disney however "educational" it may be.

 

[asudol]

My kids are in junior kindergarten and grade 1 (I'm in Canada eh)

I'm taking them both out in September for our Disney trip - they will miss 7 days of school in total for it.

I don't think we'd do the same when they are in older grades - that's a lot of time to miss when you're engulfed in studies, but up to grade 3 or so, really... what do they miss?

This is the time of their life when they learn and express creativity. Yes, they learn some language and math skills, but most of it is learned through repetition - far more than 1 week.

We will ask the teachers if there is anything we should take with us for them to learn while we are gone so they don't fall behind... but in the scheme of things, a flu would wipe them out for that long... here in Canada we miss tons of days due to freezing rain... the teachers go on strike (or at least work-to-rule) frequently... I'd rather them be at Disney World than at home

Besides - At WDW they will learn a lot about animals on the safari at AK, they will explore many countries in Epcot, and will explore their imagination at MK and HS.... it's as much as they would get at school during that time!

my 2c.

 

[beck02]

I totally agree with you, except for one thing. A grocery store trip is TOTALLY an educational trip. You should see the things we crazy home schoolers do on grocery trips

Oh yeah! Lots of stuff to learn at a grocery store, BUT I wouldn't pull my kid from school to take her. That was the point I was trying to make Kids learn where ever they are at, and Disney isn't really a 'learning experience'--it's a vacation. It has value, sure, but honestly--she could get those same values in different ways as well.

 

[Sheilby]

You don't get it. An internal memo went out that in order to use the instructional hours clause, those hours must be in blocks of at least 6 consecutive instructional hours. No half days count towards the total. PERIOD. Yes, Mobile County LENGTHENED their day to meet the requirment, but no one is allowed to SHORTEN the day to less that 6 instructional hours. No school in the state is allowed to count a half day towards thier total of either days or hours. Honestly, I don't get why proving me wrong is so important. I KNOW what I am talking about becuase I actually work here. I see the paperwork every year for submitting calendars to the state department for approval, and every year it is clearly explained that half days DO NOT COUNT. No calendar that does not meet either the number of days or hours without counting half days will be approved.

I have no doubt that your internal memo said that, I also have no doubt that it is not actually the law and that the memo is wrong (or that you misinterpreted it). When you are working off hitting the 180 school days, then each day must be at least 6 hours to be counted. (180x6=1080) The new law allows more flexibility though. The new law clearly says 180 days or 1080 hours. Yes, you can lengthen the school day and reduce the number of days or you can do like this particular school in ALABAMA did, and have some half days but the other days longer than 6 hours so that cumulatively the amount comes up to at least 1080 hours:

http://data.madisoncity.k12.al.us/Documents/Calendars/MCS 2013-2014 Calendar- Approved.pdf

Feel free to count the days in school. There are 176 full days and 4 half days. I can go through other Alabama school district and show you the same thing. You may feel I'm picking on you, but I'm not. Often people in positions of authority claim things that aren't true. In some cases it is simply misinterpreting the rules/laws, in other cases it is more willful. Perhaps whoever is in charge in your area believes it to be true, or perhaps he/she feels that half days are unproductive and feels it is easier to just say half days can't count. Either way, it is wrong.

My school district tried to tell be I needed to register my kids as home schooling students. They were quite insistent that it was the law and sent us very official looking memos telling me what I had to do. The problem was that the law said no such thing. I do not need to register my kids as home schoolers nor do I need to inform the local district of my plans. I sent a letter to the district with a copy of the relevant law plus all the NJ Supreme court decisions regarding home schooling and I never heard from them again. Their website still claims that home schoolers need to register. Obviously they are hoping that most people will just comply without question.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Their website still claims that home schoolers need to register. Obviously they are hoping that most people will just comply without question.

Actually, I'd bet they're doing that just to cover their butts so that if someone does keep their kids out of school, they can't come back later and say "well it's the school district's fault they aren't in school because of xyz."

Since you demonstrated the knowledge of the law, in writing, they aren't concerned about you possibly suing them in the future.

 

[cheer25mom]

I have no doubt that your internal memo said that, I also have no doubt that it is not actually the law and that the memo is wrong (or that you misinterpreted it). When you are working off hitting the 180 school days, then each day must be at least 6 hours to be counted. (180x6=1080) The new law allows more flexibility though. The new law clearly says 180 days or 1080 hours. Yes, you can lengthen the school day and reduce the number of days or you can do like this particular school in ALABAMA did, and have some half days but the other days longer than 6 hours so that cumulatively the amount comes up to at least 1080 hours:

http://data.madisoncity.k12.al.us/Documents/Calendars/MCS 2013-2014 Calendar- Approved.pdf

Feel free to count the days in school. There are 176 full days and 4 half days. I can go through other Alabama school district and show you the same thing. You may feel I'm picking on you, but I'm not. Often people in positions of authority claim things that aren't true. In some cases it is simply misinterpreting the rules/laws, in other cases it is more willful. Perhaps whoever is in charge in your area believes it to be true, or perhaps he/she feels that half days are unproductive and feels it is easier to just say half days can't count. Either way, it is wrong.

My school district tried to tell be I needed to register my kids as home schooling students. They were quite insistent that it was the law and sent us very official looking memos telling me what I had to do. The problem was that the law said no such thing. I do not need to register my kids as home schoolers nor do I need to inform the local district of my plans. I sent a letter to the district with a copy of the relevant law plus all the NJ Supreme court decisions regarding home schooling and I never heard from them again. Their website still claims that home schoolers need to register. Obviously they are hoping that most people will just comply without question.

Just because Madison City schools published a calendar with half days doesn't mean it meets the standard set forth by the law or that the state department of Ed approved it. they got away with something the shouldn't have if they followed that calendar without revieision. Schools systems have and continue to be sanctioned by the state for doing this. According the way the state of Alabama is enforcing this law, there should be no half days counted. Argue all you want, but those in the position to enforce this law interpret it to say that half days are not permitted. You can believe it doesn't until the cows come home, but it doesn't change the fact that the state will not approve calendars with half days, and no one has successfuly challenged that ruling. Until they do, that will continue to be how this law is enforced. I am done arguing about this with you. Interpret the law any way you want. I am just telling you what I know to be true and what i\I have seen happen multiple times. Again, I don't get why this is so important to you and you just have to prove me wrong. I am not wrong. This IS in fact how the state of Alabama is enforcing this law. Yes, some school districts are porbably sliping thorugh the cracks any getting by with it, but that doesn't change the law. It is happening every year and I just don't get why you choose to believe it is not. Until someone gets a court ruling to change their interpretation, they will continue to enforce it this way, and in reality rather that the realm of philosopical debate what is actually being enforced is what matters to what happens in schools on a day to day basis.

 

[Sheilby]

I just want to pop in here and say something about hunting. For some its a vacation but for others its a matter of food. I have a friend that relies on the meat she gets from her husband hunting. They also raise chickens and have a huge vegetable garden to can veggies, but the vast majority of their meat comes from the moose her husband hunts. Eventually her son and daughter will join him if they want. But not all hunting is a fun vacation so missing a few days of school so you have some meat on the table is ok in my book(not that it counts really) even more so than a week at disney however "educational" it may be.

Well her husband doesn't need to worry about getting an excused absence from school The kids may WANT to go, but is is really necessary? Is there really no place to hunt for any meat during non-school times? Do they HAVE to eat moose? Bunnies taste good too

Now obviously I'm not being really serious here. My point is really that we could argue for days about what should be excused and what shouldn't and when exceptions should be made. How about grampa is dying and he just wants to see his grandkids in Disney just once before he dies? We could play hypothetical games all day. However it boils down to this. Who is in charge of your children? If a child is failing and there is reason to believe that missing more school will seriously hamper that child's ability to succeed in life then yes, the state has a compelling reason to step in. When there is no danger to the child, parents are supposed to be the ones in charge. They gave birth to them (or adopted them), they stay up nights when they are sick, they spend their hard earned money to food and clothe them, they are the ones that cheer when they succeed and weep when they don't. Strong families are the single best indicator of success and happiness in life. Now, do you need to take your kid to Disney to be a happy family? Of course not, but should the state/county/local bigwigs be the ones deciding who gets approval to take off and who doesn't? Favorites will always be played in that situation.

 

[beck02]

my biggest complaint is that my public school doesn't publish their calander until right before school starts--maybe early August, from August to May of the next year. If I'm planning a trip, I need to know, in January, what those dates will be for that year, and will only know what they are for the first half of the year.

And eventually, my daughter's school will probably go with year round schooling, making it even harder to squeeze our vacation time in that window of when they're not in school.

 

[Sheilby]

my biggest complaint is that my public school doesn't publish their calander until right before school starts--maybe early August, from August to May of the next year. If I'm planning a trip, I need to know, in January, what those dates will be for that year, and will only know what they are for the first half of the year.

And eventually, my daughter's school will probably go with year round schooling, making it even harder to squeeze our vacation time in that window of when they're not in school.

Ugh, how annoying, that is very difficult for parents who may have to arrange childcare or time off of work for the periods their kids aren't in school. I have to say the schools around here are good about publishing the calendars early. This years school calendar was approved and posted last December.

 

[CdnCarrie]

My kids are in junior kindergarten and grade 1 (I'm in Canada eh)

... but in the scheme of things, a flu would wipe them out for that long... here in Canada we miss tons of days due to freezing rain... the teachers go on strike (or at least work-to-rule) frequently... I'd rather them be at Disney World than at home

my 2c.

I'm in Manitoba and have never heard of junior kindergarten. Is that like preschool? Kids here start kindergarten at age 5.

i'm in my 40s and only ever missed one day of school due to a blizzard. We have never closed due to freezing rain. I guess in rural areas perhaps. I don't know. My kids are grade 3 and 6 and have yet to have school closed for weather conditions. they keep hoping for a snow day but has never yet happened!

As for the discussion on funding I find it very bizarre to pay for attendance. Our schools are funded for the number of children registered.

 

[cheshireqt]

Took the kids out in late Sep 2007. DD was 2nd grade and DS was 5th grade. Teachers were wonderful about it and both kids were assigned a journal project and given a few worksheets to complete. Each evening we had them work for about 1/2 an hour on the journal, they did the worksheets on the plane there and the plane home.

The very next school year we took them out one extra day (Feb 2009) for Universal studios (it was a 4 day weekend - teacher workdays - They missed the additional day on the first day of the next quarter.). We got a nasty note from the school administration courtesy of my son's 6th grade teacher, citing truancy laws and saying that his absence was not excused, all work would be zeros for the day. DD was at the same school and in 3rd grade, did not hear a peep referencing her absence .

 

[pokemongirl0191]

my mom took me and my sister to Disney the week between x-mas and new years in 2006. we only missed one day of school. (the first day back after x-mas holidays.) and only because we drove most of the night to get home. if it wasn't for that i wouldn't have missed school. i was in high school then.

 

[luvmy3]

I have taken my kids out of school for disney but when my dd was in 5th grade it was the last time. My kids are all great students, but I was not comfortable with them missing so much. There are so many opportunities to take trips when school isn't in session and while the crowds may be higher it is what we will do from now on.
In terms of how long is too long, that really depends on your district rules and what you are comfortable with your child missing.
Our vacations are not excused, our district does not let us make up some "educational" reason to justify the absence, its counted as an unexcused absence and we are only allowed a certain amount per year. I think its 5, so anything more than that would lead to truancy issues. Personally I'd rather deal with Disney crowds than that.