Tables in Wonderland- thoughts for 2024?

[buzzgirls&dad]

After seeing AP's open and the 2024 DDP announcement , I personally would love to see Tables in Wonderland come back. Does anyone have any insight?

 

[Maria_Ohana]

I'd vote for TIW to come back. We will buy that vs the Dining Plan.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I am almost 100% certain Tables in Wonderland will never come back unless there are serious attendance issues in the restaurants. That deal was TOO good to be true. The dining plan is returning because it's a good deal for Disney, not for the average guest.

 

[OKW Lover]

My insight is that while I'd love TiW to come back I do not believe it will ever comeback

 

[HopperFan]

I don't think it will be back. Just one more thing to deal with for them.

I had for many years but now the cost is so high, the 10% extra I get and the fact I am probably drinking a lot less alcohol ....... the breakeven is just too high. Even if it returns, I won't be getting it.

 

[pixie3]

I would love for it to come back. I do this over the DDP. I guarantee it doesn't come back. I think they actually couldn't wait to get rid of it.

 

[gharter]

I don't expect to see it come back (even though I would love it to come back). However, I never expected to see Disney Dining return and it did.

 

[RivShore]

So much of what so many said would never be back, is back. So why not this?

the breakeven is just too high

What was the cost when it was last offered?

 

[OKW Lover]

What was the cost when it was last offered?

IIRC either $100 or $150. It worked for us because we are local and eat in the higher end restaurants regularly.

 

[gharter]

I don't think it will be back. Just one more thing to deal with for them.

I had for many years but now the cost is so high, the 10% extra I get and the fact I am probably drinking a lot less alcohol ....... the breakeven is just too high. Even if it returns, I won't be getting it.

If it came back at the same price, we might get it. When we were doing 2 trips a year, we easily saved money with TiW. At 1 trip a year, it would be close.

 

[HopperFan]

What was the cost when it was last offered?

For Florida Residents it was $175 for the 20% Discount with automatic 18% gratuity.
This would likely be bought by NON-AP holders who dine in the resorts and Disney Springs.

For DVC and AP it was $150 for the 20% Discount with automatic 18% gratuity.
Breakeven is $1500.
For AP Holders this is really only a 10% gain for FOOD, because we already get 10% at most the same places.

If you drink a lot of alcohol it would be easier to make the breakeven considering Disney prices.

So much of what so many said would never be back, is back. So why not this?

What do you see that came back that no one thought would be back?

Why not this? Disney has changed since Chapek took over the parks. He was a retail/distribution guy who operated as if Disney were DisMart. Bulk, mass, lower quality. Now I do think Iger & Disney are working towards returning some things to Disney level ... but they did see the high profits they made in some areas. Food is a high profit center, they already offer AP food discounts. Do they really need to offer any other discounts? Particularly a low participation program. One less headache. I mean the only folks who can buy it are already committed to Disney other than locals without AP. Disney lost lots of those folks even before COVID. Too many other places in the area to have enjoyable dining without the high prices. No more Epcot evening AP. I just think it's more pain than it's worth ... but you never know.

If it came back at the same price, we might get it. When we were doing 2 trips a year, we easily saved money with TiW. At 1 trip a year, it would be close.

Oh it is for sure all about numbers for each family. We stopped getting it the last year before it went away because ... 1) Most my trips were now me and disabled son alone so I wasn't drinking much alcohol 2) Most Disney restaurants quality had dipped so low we weren't interested in paying that much to eat 3) While I love Disney Springs (and better food) we just don't spend much time there, we are park centric. 4) We are past doing Character Meals and special dining events.

Had it for MANY years (traveling 4-6 weeks to Disney each year), used it lots, especially when there were 3-5 of us going to WDW. When DD was there for a year working I got her the second card since her CM discounts didn't cover alcohol, her and her friends could use. Now with mostly just 2 of us going, and only 3-4 times a year, just hard to even get to breakeven.

 

[Scalemaster34]

Yeah the key is how often do they have empty tables? And is the issue a lack of customers willing to pay full price, or still a lack of qualified servers?

I could see a limited TiW Card... good for select dates (weekdays and non-holidays) or even locations (Epcot and Downtown Disney).

 

[RivShore]

For AP Holders this is really only a 10% gain for FOOD, because we already get 10% at most the same places.

I recall looking at the list years back and it seemed to have a good amount of places that were not on the AP list but it was a while ago so maybe it shrunk over the years.

What do you see that came back that no one thought would be back?

Have you been on these boards the last year or two LOL

So many said -
AP's never coming back
Hotel and ticket discounts never again
The random entertainment on the streets and in hotels - greedy Disney will never bring them back
Some of the restaurants that were closed beyond covid were never going to reopen
The dining plan never coming back

I'm sure there's more but that's a sample of all the nay sayers on these boards who turned out to be wrong.

 

[gharter]

So many said -
AP's never coming back
Hotel and ticket discounts never again
The random entertainment on the streets and in hotels - greedy Disney will never bring them back
Some of the restaurants that were closed beyond covid were never going to reopen
The dining plan never coming back

It all depends on what makes financial sense for Disney. When they typically are slow over the summer months, they will have discounts to fill rooms.
It will be interesting to see what is included in the dining plan and what it is priced at. I'm sure it will be much more expensive than it used to be.
AP's are back for now, but Disney had previously announced that they weren't sure how long they would be available.

 

[thanxfornoticin]

I recall looking at the list years back and it seemed to have a good amount of places that were not on the AP list but it was a while ago so maybe it shrunk over the years.


Have you been on these boards the last year or two LOL

So many said -
AP's never coming back
Hotel and ticket discounts never again
The random entertainment on the streets and in hotels - greedy Disney will never bring them back
Some of the restaurants that were closed beyond covid were never going to reopen
The dining plan never coming back

I'm sure there's more but that's a sample of all the nay sayers on these boards who turned out to be wrong.

In all fairness, there are just as many people saying the opposite, who apparently might have been correct..... I think a large percentage of the posts I was reading expected DDP to return - since Disney probably makes money on it. Discounts were always capacity-based, and there was eventually going to be a peak and a downturn in the guest levels after Covid reopening.... Some of the restaurants actually didn't reopen, or are still closed. GF still has closures. ESPN never reopened as ESPN. My favorite Ample Hills never reopened (I know, not tech a restaurant, even though I could eat dinner there!)!! There are probably others. So there is some truth to that, too.

 

[HopperFan]

I recall looking at the list years back and it seemed to have a good amount of places that were not on the AP list but it was a while ago so maybe it shrunk over the years.

I've had AP and had TiW for years ... the difference was minimal. And again, it's about the cost, the breakeven for each person and eating style.

Have you been on these boards the last year or two LOL

So many said -
AP's never coming back
Hotel and ticket discounts never again
The random entertainment on the streets and in hotels - greedy Disney will never bring them back
Some of the restaurants that were closed beyond covid were never going to reopen
The dining plan never coming back

I'm sure there's more but that's a sample of all the nay sayers on these boards who turned out to be wrong.

A handful of people were sure AP would not come back even though Disney was actively renewing them without any signs of stopping them. Most of us knew they would be back it was a matter of when Disney thought they could manage them. (And a handful were determined they didn't come back because of a CA lawsuit - equally humorous).

Hmmm, I recall convos on Free Dining not returning but no I don't think most thought discounts were gone forever. First they needed to open all rooms to booking, then they needed to fully staff hotels with housekeeping and enough kitchen staff. And let's face it, the insane booking levels they were experiencing from people willing to throw tons of money at them - why give a discount? I wouldn't.

I think there was some discussion entertainment will be gone forever ... mostly because I think folks think why not, that isn't costly to do. Well, it's more complicated than folks think. Again, while parks have done well, they are making up for tremendous losses during closure and in other divisions. The logical thing is to not spend money on unnecessary things. At no point have we gotten back up to speed other than packed parks. Entertainment was going to return on a slow basis for lots of reasons. Like Fantasmic - they couldn't staff it, not enough entertainers. It would have opened much sooner and was ready - but working for Disney entertainment isn't the huge resume plus it was. So it wasn't Disney, it was the applicant shortage.

Never heard a rational conversation restaurants would stay closed. Modified maybe, menus reduced (it happened), prix fixe staying to guarantee income (yup) .. but no never heard restaurants closing.

Dining Plan not coming back. It was a huge 50/50 on that one. But rational conversation was that it could not come back until restaurants were fully functioning. You can't offer a dining plan without a full "menu" available to them. Disney makes big profits on DDP because it is very overpriced for the average user. Did they need it to fill restaurants last few years, nope. But last couple trips many hard to get restaurants were easy to get so ... why wouldn't they bring it back to fill those seats? But again, they had to have the support there to do it. AND the plan is an "annual" contract with dining locations and so it was always going to start back in a January.

SO yeah, this is a list of items from a small minority of alarmists, not what the majority believed. There may have been some convo, there may have been "what if" and "maybe" and other conversation starters. But I think most of us knew it was just a matter of when ... and for some things, how much more will it cost us now.

 

[RivShore]

But rational conversation

Welp, there's the problem, I ended up in the middle of every irrational thread for a time apparently The negativity back then was really trying on the soul. Your rational and logical post is very welcome!

this is a list of items from a small minority of alarmists, not what the majority believed.

Exactly, and just like the internet at large - a few loud alarmist types drown out everything else and it's all you remember.

 

[jimmymc]

I doubt the separate card will come back, however I could see Disney increasing the discount percentage for high end annual passes if reservations are slow, or maybe offering a Disney+ discount.

 

[Scalemaster34]

I think another indicator is the lack of an Epcot after 4PM Pass return. Which also was something used to help fill Epcot restaurants using locals, that didn't want to pay for a full AP of some type.

 

[HopperFan]

Welp, there's the problem, I ended in the middle of every irrational thread for a time apparently The negativity back then was really trying on the soul. Your rational and logical post is very welcome!

I hear you. You get to that moment where you just got to walk away.

Exactly, and just like the internet at large - a few loud alarmist types drown out everything else and it's all you remember.

So true