Table Manners....

[luvmy3]

I think this is the real issue. Some posters have gone so far as to claim that is you don't tear apart your bread, you must be shoving whole loaves in your mouth, flinging crumbs everywhere, and gnawing on the loaf like a dog on a bone. Another poster claimed that if I don't tear apart my bread, I must surely not understand how thank you notes work. The condescension over a bread "rule" is a bigger manner infraction, to me, than whether I tear or bite my bread.

Completely agree. Around here, you'd be told to stop playing with your food.

Exactly!

Here we go!

http://table-setting-etiquette.blogspot.com/2006/01/tricky-foods-eating-bread-correct-way.html


OK, I agree with all of these rules. http://table-setting-etiquette.blogspot.com/2005/08/fundamental-table-manners.html

There is one that is questionable to me though:

Do not spit anything out - If there is something in your mouth that you cannot swallow, quietly - and subtly - put it in your napkin, then transfer it onto the edge of your plate and then continue on eating.

What do you all think about that?

I think its odd that half chewed up food sitting on the edge of your plate during your meal is acceptable, but setting down a roll with a bite in it isn't.

 

[Magic Mom]

the. thread. that. just. won't. DIE.

Don't forget to break apart your popcorn before you gnaw on it. And chew with your smiley mouth closed.

 

[suzannen]

I guess the thing that has surprised me the most is that so few people here were taught in their homes the basic etiquette lesson of how to eat bread at a dinner table. This was ingrained in us as small children. Every Sunday, my Southern mother put out her best tablecloth, china and silver and we were to practice using our best manners because, in her words "you never know when you will be asked to eat at the White House."

Now, I've still yet to be asked to eat at the White House (although I was at a dinner at the Met Museum with Hillary Clinton in March), but I've used all of those etiquette tips in hundreds of business lunches and dinners through the years and they've served me well. And, my Northern MIL taught the same things to my DH, so it's not a regional thing.

I don't judge someone badly if they do not these things, but it certainly works in someone's favor if they do know them, particularly when I've interviewing someone for a position, that's why I've instilled them in my own children.

But, back to the original OP, if it's a manners pet-peeve, the one that really irritates me is wearing hats at a table. NO HATS at the table (or even inside for that manner)!!! I was raised that this was one of the rudest things you could do. So, please take off your hats before sitting down at my table.

And, for the person who mentioned Emily Post being against email thank you notes, that's just not true. They are fine for everyday thank yous, but for wedding gifts and shower gifts, handwritten notes are still the preferred way.

 

[goofy!]

What is the proper way to eat a piece of toast? If you dont butter the whole piece the butter doesnt melt. Do you tear off piece of the toast? And then if you add jelly then what?

If you would ask my very proper European mother or grandmother, toast with jelly is essentially an open faced sandwich and should always be eaten with a knife and fork

You would never pick up an open faced sandwich.

 

[kimmar067]

Don't forget to break apart your popcorn before you gnaw on it. And chew with your smiley mouth closed.

....'k...

 

[wdwmom0f3]

Exactly!



I think its odd that half chewed up food sitting on the edge of your plate during your meal is acceptable, but setting down a roll with a bite in it isn't.

I found that odd too. I have always left in in my napkin until the meal is over. No way do I want to sit and look at someones plate with a chewed up piece of steak or something on it. That's just gross to me.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

I love how people are still trying to say there is a "correct" way to eat the bread. Does anyone realize that these "manners" and "rules for etiquette" are completely arbitrary? It's the same thing with the fashion police. These rules are just made up by someone, but are far from "correct."

Two years ago I actually got to go to dinner with the owner of my company. I'm more of a fan of cooking myself a nice meal, rather than going out and eating, so I was a bit nervous about remembering all of the things that some people consider proper.

The owner is nearly 80 years old, and he's an old school businessman, so I'm expecting things to go by the book for this one. We sit down and get our bread, and I'm being very careful about putting the butter on my plate, etc. Suddenly I hear, "What, are you going to eat that bread crumb by crumb, like a mouse?" Here's the owner laughing at me, as he loads his whole dinner roll up with butter, and took a bite.

Completely broke the tension I had about the evening. The best part was him saying to me, "those rules are all as old and outdated as I am."

So, I would say even the most proper and rich (yeah, the guy is loaded) don't really believe in the arbitrary ramblings and recitations of archaic knowledge anymore.

I, for one, am glad about that. Dining with others is about enjoying the company around you, and the meal, not worrying if using the wrong fork is going to deeply wound one of your neighbors.

 

[Sorsha]

And, for the person who mentioned Emily Post being against email thank you notes, that's just not true. They are fine for everyday thank yous, but for wedding gifts and shower gifts, handwritten notes are still the preferred way.

Good thing I wedding-ed and shower-ed a long time ago then, because I don't hand-write ANYTHING.

The thing about all the etiquette rules is I JUST DON'T CARE. Good manners, yes. Treating people kindly and fairly, yes. Many other things that hit my radar within my own value system, most definitely YES.

But antiquated etiquette rules so complicated they require a book to learn them?? Bah. Don't care.

This whole thing reminds me of a PBS documentary I watched a while ago about a Southern "summer camp" for teenage girls where they were sent (and paid a mighty pretty penny, may I add) to learn about Civil War era etiquette, customs, etc. They spent the whole time in period garb, learned dining rules, "courting" rules, dancing rules, church rules, etc. The girls were lectured constantly "A lady would NEVER...", "A lady would never let a gentleman...". It was actually very creepy because the people who ran the camp were obsessed with that time period and by the time the girls left, they were too - in a very Revisionist History sort of way.... all roses and sunshine, none of the bad bits.

 

[Heidict]

Don't forget to break apart your popcorn before you gnaw on it. And chew with your smiley mouth closed.

Make sure you don't squirt butter on the whole batch at once. Butter each individual piece prior to eating.

I guess the thing that has surprised me the most is that so few people here were taught in their homes the basic etiquette lesson of how to eat bread at a dinner table. This was ingrained in us as small children. Every Sunday, my Southern mother put out her best tablecloth, china and silver and we were to practice using our best manners because, in her words "you never know when you will be asked to eat at the White House."

As evidenced by this thread I don't believe it is "basic etiguette". Most of us have never even heard of this. My mother was a stickler for table manners, as I am with my 6 year old daughter. I asked her about this and she said that she had never heard of it before. It was not something that either her mother or grandmother taught her or did themselves. They were also "very proper".

Now we were all born and raised on the West Coast, so if it is regional, than maybe that is why we have not heard about it. I have eaten at all types of restaurants from the outrageously priced to the more moderate family types and I can't recall ever seeing someone do this. Of course, I wasn't really watching for it, but you can be sure that I will be watching now!!

 

[goofy!]

I don't get all the defensiveness, hostility and nastiness (with snide jokes of breaking apart popcorn, etc) in regards to the fact that if one has not heard of an etiquette rule, that it is archaic and out of date. Just because a person may have never heard of it, does not make that person a lower class person, it just means they were never taught and the rule is not often used in normal (whatever their normal is) circles. It does not mean that the "rule" is archaic and does not exist.

I have mentioned this before, but my daughter is a self-advocate and is involved with a particularly well-heeled Down syndrome foundation. The fundraisers tend to bring in celebrities and the jet set.

We get to tag along. The last black tie fundraiser we attended, I can guarantee that 99.999% of the attendees were very well aware of the bread rule. We may have been the parent peons in the corner, but I was sure glad we knew "the rules" of polite society.

Should they be observed at Outback or other family style restaurants? Not necessarily. But it is a good thing to know if you are ever out at a 5* restaurant or a black tie affair, because in those situations, you bet they exist.

 

[Magic Mom]

....'k...

I think you were supposed to spit that in your napkin.


And Kimmar, you are the perfect person to ask. When one eats bacon, should one take a bite from the whole strip, tear it apart piece by piece, or use a fork and knife? Or is there a special bacon fork I'm not aware of?

 

[Toad_Passenger]

I don't get all the defensiveness and hostility in regards to the fact that if you have not heard of an etiquette rule, that it is archaic and out of date. Just because you have never heard of it, does not make one a lower class person, it just means you were never taught and it is not often used in normal (whatever your normal is) circles. It does not mean that the "rule" is archaic and does not exist.

I have mentioned this before, but my daughter is a self-advocate and is involved with a particularly well-heeled Down syndrome foundation. The fundraisers tend to bring in celebrities and the jet set.

We get to tag along. But the last black tie fundraiser we attended, I can guarantee that 99.999% of the attendees were very well aware of the bread rule. We may have been the parent peons in the corner, but I was sure glad we knew "the rules" of polite society.

Should they be observed at Outback or other family style restaurants? Not necessarily. But it is a good thing to know if you are ever out at a 5* restaurant or a black tie affair, because in those situations, you bet they exist.

But that's not even 100% true, as my story shows. Although I have seen many confrontations occur between the so-called Old and New rich, when I had my first job at a Country Club. I guess the "old" rich thought the new rich were classless. Of course, I just figured they were upset that the younger folks were having more fun and being more liberal about the rules, and it made the old folks jealous that they never thought to do the same.

I also would LOVE to take a poll at one of those events and see how many people would prefer to be more relaxed, rather than worrying about breaking their bread piece-by-piece. I can just imagine a whole room of people doing something so they don't offend each other, when the truth is that NONE of them would be truly offended.

 

[SaraJayne]

I think you were supposed to spit that in your napkin.


And Kimmar, you are the perfect person to ask. When one eats bacon, should one take a bite from the whole strip, tear it apart piece by piece, or use a fork and knife? Or is there a special bacon fork I'm not aware of?

Bacon fork!!

http://www.elledecor.com/image/tid/3418?page=5

 

[Magic Mom]

I don't get all the defensiveness, hostility and nastiness (with snide jokes of breaking apart popcorn, etc) in regards to the fact that if one has not heard of an etiquette rule, that it is archaic and out of date. Just because a person may have never heard of it, does not make that person a lower class person, it just means they were never taught and the rule is not often used in normal (whatever their normal is) circles. It does not mean that the "rule" is archaic and does not exist.

I have mentioned this before, but my daughter is a self-advocate and is involved with a particularly well-heeled Down syndrome foundation. The fundraisers tend to bring in celebrities and the jet set.

We get to tag along. But the last black tie fundraiser we attended, I can guarantee that 99.999% of the attendees were very well aware of the bread rule. We may have been the parent peons in the corner, but I was sure glad we knew "the rules" of polite society.

Should they be observed at Outback or other family style restaurants? Not necessarily. But it is a good thing to know if you are ever out at a 5* restaurant or a black tie affair, because in those situations, you bet they exist.

That was my comment, and I wasn't being snide, I was having fun with a poster I am used to joking with on other threads. The defensiveness comes from being called infantile, manner-less, too ill mannered to understand thank you notes, etc. just because we don't happen to think an arbitrary etiquette rule is important.

 

[SaraJayne]

That was my comment, and I wasn't being snide, I was having fun with a poster I am used to joking with on other threads. The defensiveness comes from being called infantile, manner-less, too ill mannered to understand thank you notes, etc. just because we don't happen to think an arbitrary etiquette rule is important.

You forgot "crass".

 

[Magic Mom]

Bacon fork!!

http://www.elledecor.com/image/tid/3418?page=5

OMG that is hilarious. That fork looks positively dangerous. Here is one just for this thread.

Toast Serving Fork

Even picking up rolls or “toast” from a breadbasket was too contaminating for the Victorians; this utensil was designed to stab and lift the bread to the plate.

 

[goofy!]

I think you were supposed to spit that in your napkin.

And Kimmar, you are the perfect person to ask. When one eats bacon, should one take a bite from the whole strip, tear it apart piece by piece, or use a fork and knife? Or is there a special bacon fork I'm not aware of?

Properly? Rules of etiquette?

Bacon should always be eaten with a knife and fork. Although particularly crispy bacon may be picked up by hand.

 

[sunshinehighway]

You forgot "crass".

I think "creepy" was used as well.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

I think "creepy" was used as well.

I believe comments bordered on calling some, unfit to keep as company.

 

[kirstenb1]

Make sure you don't squirt butter on the whole batch at once. Butter each individual piece prior to eating.



As evidenced by this thread I don't believe it is "basic etiguette". Most of us have never even heard of this. My mother was a stickler for table manners, as I am with my 6 year old daughter. I asked her about this and she said that she had never heard of it before. It was not something that either her mother or grandmother taught her or did themselves. They were also "very proper".

Now we were all born and raised on the West Coast, so if it is regional, than maybe that is why we have not heard about it. I have eaten at all types of restaurants from the outrageously priced to the more moderate family types and I can't recall ever seeing someone do this. Of course, I wasn't really watching for it, but you can be sure that I will be watching now!!

I wonder if its a European custom? My parents were always very strict with table manners, and we were raised learning this custom with bread/rolls. My grandmother was from England, and passed much of this to my Dad, who, in turn taught it to us. I can still remember "proper" use of knife and fork, and placement of them when done.

I rarely notice others' manners, or lack of them, unless it's something very obvious.