Swine Flu - General Discussion and how it affects Disney

You most certainly are fear mongering as well as your doctor. Your doctor actually sounds like a poor doctor so I would consider getting a new one.

Personally I am glad you are canceling your trip. One less person down there clogging up the lines. Enjoy staying boarded in your house.

Do you homeschool your children since the probability of them being bullied at school or having bad influences on them is so much greater there than at home in their own bedroom?

Considering that this particular physician is one of the top-rated in the country, I think we'll keep him...but thank you for your "expert" opinion on him.

The rest of your post isn't worth addressing, so I'll just use this as a jumping-off point to say, it seems that many people here are convinced that they know better than the CDC, the WHO, and the governments of many nations. Therefore I should not be surprised that the same people spread hate on internet forums towards those who share information.

This is most assuredly NOT directed towards those who disagree and have offered coherent and reasonable debate. As I've said all along, everyone needs to make their own decisions based on their own information gathering. I'm glad that some are using this thread to contribute new knowledge/opinions/food for thought. I hope everyone stays safe and healthy, regardless of what you decide to do.
 
Did anyone hear the Vice President on the Today show. He said he would tell his family members not to fly on a plane or get in confined spaces. Those who think people are crazy for being concerned may not know as much about the situation as the people in charge. It is all about your risk tolerance, and that is a personal choice. I'm not trying to scare anyone, but lets not make fun of people who are concerned.

As much as I like our VP, I think that was very irresponsible of him, in light of the fact that the President himself told everyone last night on National TV that while we need to be cautions, we should not be alarmed. Mr. Biden should've chosen his words more carefully.
 
The WHO is only reporting 7 deaths and say the 150 number is incorrect information.
 
Does anyone know where to get travel sized lysol wipes / spray? I should add those to my list. I'm not really worried too much but I think my sister would want to wipe things down in the Villa (like door handles for example).

I know that you can get travel size lysol sprays at Walmart & Target in the section with all the travel size stuff. I think that Walmart may not have the Lysol brand but I'm pretty sure we got ours at Target. ( We already take this with us everytime we go, so this is nothing new and we had already purchased hand sanitzer to bring with us when I heard about the stomach bug going aroung in Disney. Not much else I can do to prepare us....but I'm going and I'm going to have a good time......even though every thread on this has freaked me out.....Thanks ! :scared: Here's to some less crowded parks though!!
 

Can anyone confirm or deny this information about the swine flu in 1976? I just heard that the strain actually weakened after it was passed to the 3rd person or something like that? There's a guy on the radio I'm listening to right now who thinks that may be a reason for the deaths in Mexico but not anywhere else. He seems to believe that the initial strain was powerful, but, in order to pass from human to human it mutated into something a lot weaker. Something to do with natural selection. Interesting.
 
Not sure where you got your info, but there have been 160 deaths from swine flu in Mexico alone, it has sickened close to 2,500 people and 1,300 remain hospitalized. So flame me if you want, but I don't think this is media hype. It's a real concern and that's why they're bringing it to our attention. Our trip this May is in question now. Not cancelling now. Waiting it out to see what happens.

There have been 7 confirmed deaths from the swine flu in Mexico. They did have it at 20 but reduced the number down to seven. The 160 deaths are suspect. So the other person's information is right.
 
Grace, that is an interesting email BUT with all due respect that DR is wrong.
He is wrong about it being a 6 already or close to it. He has NO idea what a 6 means.

Every single person in the US could have this flu and we could still be at a 5. It has to be shown that it has community passing it around in an completely different region ~ no country.

The WHO is watching Spain closely. They had 9 people come back from Mexico with confirmed cases of Swine Flu. They have a 10th person who caught it from one of those 9. If they show confirmed reports of the butcher, baker, candle stick maker, teacher ... it passed into the community then we will go to a 6... not until this happens though. Could this happen tomorrow? sure!
But the level 6 has nothing to do with us or our region. It is a world wide kind of thing. As we live in the region that is a level 5 we are at our highest level we can go REGION WISE. The level 6 won't mean squat to us but it will matter to the rest of the world.
 
/
As much as I like our VP, I think that was very irresponsible of him, in light of the fact that the President himself told everyone last night on National TV that while we need to be cautions, we should not be alarmed. Mr. Biden should've chosen his words more carefully.

Not surprised.

There hasn't been ANY deaths in the US... except for one child who was from MEXICO and people are freaking out like this? :headache:
 
As much as I like our VP, I think that was very irresponsible of him, in light of the fact that the President himself told everyone last night on National TV that while we need to be cautions, we should not be alarmed. Mr. Biden should've chosen his words more carefully.

Maybe that was his interpertation of being cautious?
 
Not sure where you got your info, but there have been 160 deaths from swine flu in Mexico alone, it has sickened close to 2,500 people and 1,300 remain hospitalized. So flame me if you want, but I don't think this is media hype. It's a real concern and that's why they're bringing it to our attention. Our trip this May is in question now. Not cancelling now. Waiting it out to see what happens.

Just remember, most of these cases are from Mexico City itself which has a population of 8.8 million people. Greater Mexico City has a population of over 20 million. So even if it is 2,500 infected with this virus, which they do not know, that would be one person for every 3,500 people. I'm not saying I'm not concerned, I'm just trying to put it in perspective that even with an over-populated place like Mexico City, there is only one person out of every 3,500 who has been infected.
 
Can anyone confirm or deny this information about the swine flu in 1976? I just heard that the strain actually weakened after it was passed to the 3rd person or something like that? There's a guy on the radio I'm listening to right now who thinks that may be a reason for the deaths in Mexico but not anywhere else. He seems to believe that the initial strain was powerful, but, in order to pass from human to human it mutated into something a lot weaker. Something to do with natural selection. Interesting.

Again WRONG ~ the swine flu from the 70's was a different strain entirely. This is a brand new virus and nobody ~ the WHO, CDC or your local Doc can predict what it can do or what it will do. This has a mix of genetic material ~ it has some swine flu, some bird flu and some human flu all mixed together. They have never seen this before. NO human has any immunity from it. If you come into contact with it, you will catch it.

The reason we have less deaths is because we have better medical facilities. We do have several Americans on vents and even the one woman who had an emergency c section is in critical. The flu itself doesn't kill you ~ its the complications from the flu .... the US has far better medical facilities to handle this complications. Also, Mexico has been dealing with this flu for over 2 months now so it has had time to kill more people. There are 100's of people in hospitals in the US right now with the flu.

Take that little child who died =(
He was admitted to the hospital on April 13. It took from April 13-April 29 for it to ravage his body and kill him =(
Come back here in 2 months and you will see many more deaths in the US than they have in Mexico.
 
Can anyone confirm or deny this information about the swine flu in 1976? I just heard that the strain actually weakened after it was passed to the 3rd person or something like that? There's a guy on the radio I'm listening to right now who thinks that may be a reason for the deaths in Mexico but not anywhere else. He seems to believe that the initial strain was powerful, but, in order to pass from human to human it mutated into something a lot weaker. Something to do with natural selection. Interesting.

I have absolutely NO medical authority or expertise on this, but I read an article recently that said basically the same thing. According to the theory as I understand it, viruses live to replicate. That's their entire purpose. Therefore, they have to be able to be transmitted from host to host. If the virus is TOO strong/deadly, it will kill its host before being passed on. So natural selection favors somewhat weaker strains of the virus...strong enough to make the host very ill, but weak enough that the person (or animal) can still move around and interact with others, thereby transmitting the virus and allowing the cycle to continue.

This seems to jive with what we've seen. For example, kids vacationing in Mexico on spring break didn't hang out at the hospital with the very ill. They went to nightclubs, beaches, movie theaters...thereby being exposed to the "walking ill". That's the strain they caught, and possibly why their illness was relatively mild.

Again, I have NO medical authority. It's just what I read, and it makes logical sense. Whether the virus will mutate again into something more serious, I don't know that anyone can answer right now.
 
Again WRONG ~ the swine flu from the 70's was a different strain entirely. This is a brand new virus and nobody ~ the WHO, CDC or your local Doc can predict what it can do or what it will do. This has a mix of genetic material ~ it has some swine flu, some bird flu and some human flu all mixed together. They have never seen this before. NO human has any immunity from it. If you come into contact with it, you will catch it.

I'm not sure what I was "WRONG" about? I wasn't saying it was the exact same strain, but it does have some swine flu in with it, and I was asking a general question about the previous swine flu outbreak. Basically it was a question about the life cycles of all viruses.
 
Considering that this particular physician is one of the top-rated in the country, I think we'll keep him...but thank you for your "expert" opinion on him.

The rest of your post isn't worth addressing, so I'll just use this as a jumping-off point to say, it seems that many people here are convinced that they know better than the CDC, the WHO, and the governments of many nations. Therefore I should not be surprised that the same people spread hate on internet forums towards those who share information.

This is most assuredly NOT directed towards those who disagree and have offered coherent and reasonable debate. As I've said all along, everyone needs to make their own decisions based on their own information gathering. I'm glad that some are using this thread to contribute new knowledge/opinions/food for thought. I hope everyone stays safe and healthy, regardless of what you decide to do.

http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_04_29/en/index.html

"WHO advises no restriction of regular travel or closure of borders."
 
I'm not sure what I was "WRONG" about? I wasn't saying it was the exact same strain, but it does have some swine flu in with it, and I was asking a general question about the previous swine flu outbreak. Basically it was a question about the life cycles of all viruses.

I didn't mean it as you were wrong ~ I am sorry.
I meant that reporter on the radio was wrong. There are people guessing and making calls that they have no training to do. The CDC and WHO are working around the clock with some of the best infectious disease specialist in the world and they aren't sure exactly how this virus is moving or if its going to die out. Some guy on the radio giving his judgement is wrong. The public needs facts no so called experts making assumptions to either scare or belittle the situation. There is too much Monday morning quarterbacking here and the facts are not one specialist knows for sure what its going to do.
 
If you read my post, the information comes from the WHO website. I also posted the link.

Did read your post.

There have been 7 confirmed deaths from the swine flu in Mexico. They did have it at 20 but reduced the number down to seven. The 160 deaths are suspect. So the other person's information is right.

Disagree with both comments, but I'm not here to argue. Posters were commenting about their traveling to DIS, and so am I.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090429/ap_on_he_me/med_swine_flu
 
I didn't mean it as you were wrong ~ I am sorry.
I meant that reporter on the radio was wrong. There are people guessing and making calls that they have no training to do. The CDC and WHO are working around the clock with some of the best infectious disease specialist in the world and they aren't sure exactly how this virus is moving or if its going to die out. Some guy on the radio giving his judgement is wrong. The public needs facts no so called experts making assumptions to either scare or belittle the situation. There is too much Monday morning quarterbacking here and the facts are not one specialist knows for sure what its going to do.

I agree about the Monday Morning QB thing. I don't think this guy was off-base, though, as I've now done some Googling and the natural selection idea is actually accepted amongst the scientific viral community. Certainly it is not 100% fact as to what is happening here, but it was interesting information nonetheless.
 
Morning everyone! Of course I've been sifting through all the news reports and messages this morning. There still seems to be a 50-50 split about the "good" vs. "bad" news about this, so who knows what to believe at this point? :confused3

Anyway I was thinking about all the fears people were having regarding the cytokine storms situations. People were worried about this because of the age of the people who died in Mexico. That being said it seems that the same age group has been affected here in the USA - high school students in NYC, possible college students in Delaware, but all of these cases have recovered. So now we're looking at equivalent age groups, and STILL the only deaths have been in Mexico. I'm wondering if there has been anymore discovered that can explain that mystery? Why would Mexicans encounter these immune-system overreactions, but not Americans?

Did you read the email in the first post on that page? Not sure if you saw it.

Ok, I am posting this here for informational purposes only. Not to create more panic. I know there are all types on this board (obviously!) the naysayers and the we're all gonna die people. I am writing from one of the hardest hit areas. Our city created precedent yesterday by closing all of the local school districts. I posted their link earlier. Now I received this forwarded email from an ER doc at our local hospital. While I cannot vouch for his accuracy I can state he treated me for an infection 4 years ago and does not seem to be someone who would sensationalize this problem. Here is the email with some good homeopathic tips included:

Thought this was very good information for you and Jim to have. This is
beginning to look very serious.
Governor Perry had a press conference mid-day and updated the level of
response to pandemic.
The last couple of bullets below suggest some homeopathic and supplement
information that we are all starting on today.


I will keep you updated as Marc sends me information.
Although he is not at the Hospital today, Heather said he has been in
constant contact with the doctors on duty and will probably have to go
back in they are so overrun. They have confirmed 80 cases today. The
CDC alerted them to classify any A positives on the flu test as H1N1
swine flu.


C

Good morning! I have questions about this...wondering if you know the answers to any of these....They will be in pink.


Begin forwarded message:








After I returned from a public health meeting yesterday with community
leaders and school officials in Comal County, Heather suggested I send
an update to everyone, because what we are hearing privately from the
CDC and Health Department is so different from what you are hearing in
the media. Some of you know some or maybe all of this, but I will just
list what facts I know.


- The virus is infectious for about 2 days prior to symptom onset
So, healthy people can be walking around infecting people? Is that correct?
- Virus sheds more than 7 days after symptom onset (possibly as long as
9 days) (this is unusual)
What is the normal shed for a virus or a flu virus?
- Since it is such a novel (new) virus, there is no "herd immunity," so
the "attack rate" is very high. This is the percentage of people who
come down with a virus if exposed. Almost everyone who is exposed to
this virus will become infected, though not all will be symptomatc. That
is much higher than seasonal flu, which averages 10-15%. The "clinical
attack rate" may be around 40-50%. This is the number of people who show
symptoms. This is a huge number. It is hard to convey the seriousness of
this.
I noticed this on the news reports...groups of 13 came back and 11 were sick...group of 5 came back and 5 are sick. This makes sense to me.
- The virulence (deadliness) of this virus is as bad here as in Mexico,
and there are folks on ventilators here in the US, right now. This has
not been in the media, but a 23 month old near here is fighting for his
life, and a pregnant woman just south of San Antonio is fighting for her
life. In Mexico, these folks might have died already, but here in the
US, folks are getting Tamiflu or Relenza quickly, and we have ready
access to ventilators. What this means is that within a couple of weeks,
regional hospitals will likely become overwhelmed.
I assume this is the same 23-month-old that died?
- Some of the kids with positive cases in Comal County had more than 70
contacts before diagnosis. What is considered a contact?
- There are 10-25 times more actual cases (not "possible" cases --
actual), than what is being reported in the media. The way they fudge on
reporting this is that it takes 3 days to get the confirmatory nod from
the CDC on a given viral culture, but based on epidemiological grounds,
we know that there are more than 10 cases for each "confirmed" case
right now.
So, theoretically, we should have 900+ cases "reported" by Friday or Saturday? Is that how this will work...we are just days behind what is truely there?
- During the night, we crossed the threshold for the definition of a
WHO, Phase 6 global pandemic. This has not happened in any of our
lifetimes so far. We are in uncharted territory.
Does he say this based on what he witnessed in the US OR is he referring to what is happening overseas?
- I expect President Obama will declare an emergency sometime in the
next 72-96 hours. This may not happen, but if it doesn't, I will be
surprised. When this happens, all public gathering will be cancelled for
10 days.
This would really, really surprise me. Seems like it would make more sense to shut things down regionally? Didn't they already declare an emergency? Or is there another level to that?
- I suggest all of us avoid public gatherings. Outdoor activities are
not as likely to lead to infection. It is contained areas and close
contact that are the biggest risk.
I am not sure "all" of us have to. I, for one, live in Mississippi and we have no confirmed or suspected cases anywhere near me. That could change.
- Tamiflu is running out. There is a national stockpile, but it will
have to be carefully managed, as it is not enough to treat the likely
number of infections when this is full-blown. I don't think there is a
big supply of Relenza, but I do not know those numbers. If I had to
choose, I would take Relenza, as I think it gets more drug to the
affected tissue than Tamiflu.
This seems like an extreme statment? Does he mean that the drug stores are running out? Because nationwide we have enough to treat 25% of us.
- You should avoid going to the ER if you think you have been exposed or
are symptomatic. ER's south of here are becoming overwhelmed -- and I
mean that -- already. It is coming in waves, but the waves are getting
bigger. What do we do instead?
- It appears that this flu produces a distinctive "hoarseness" in many
victims. The symptoms, in general, match other flu's; namely, sore
throat, body aches, headache, cough, and fever. Some have all these
symptoms, while others may have only one or two.
This seems easily verifiable. I wonder how many cases he has seen personally? Is that a true separate symptom that we can look out for?
- N-Acetyl-Cysteine -- a nutritional supplement available at the health
food store or Wimberley Pharmacy, has been shown to prevent or lessen
the severity of influenza. I suggest 1200mg, twice a day for adults, and
600mg twice a day in kids over 12. It would be hard to get kids under 12
to take it, but you could try opening the capsules and putting it on
yogurt. For 40 pounds and up, 300-600 mg twice a day, for less than 40
pounds, half that.
- Oscillococinum, a homeopathic remedy, has been vindicated as quite
effective in a large clinical trial in Europe, with an H1N1 variant. You
can buy this at Hill Country Natural Foods, or the Wimberley Pharmacy. This is great information, thank you!!




I will try to keep everyone posted if I have any new information.
Meanwhile, don't be afraid just avoid infection. The fewer people
infected the easier it will be for our public officials to manage it.
 
I do NOT want to be misunderstood or accused of fear mongering. I write about phobias, including health anxiety, for a living, and I'd like to think I have a pretty good handle on sorting out panic from reality.

That said, I wanted to share our experience to help others in making decisions. We currently live about 10 miles from Disney, and my Dad's primary care doctor is in Celebration. He practices at Celebration Hospital, where ill travelers are taken from Disney.

We have a trip planned with my cousin and her husband May 1-May 8, to stay on property and visit the parks. Dad happened to have a doctor appointment today, so we asked the doc about the Disney trip. The doctor paused and carefully considered his response. The measured response was this: "I would cancel the trip. Disney is currently a cesspool of germs."
Now, Dad has some health concerns such as mild COPD, Hep C and cardiovascular disease. The doctor told us that Dad is at particular risk due to his medical condition. However, he did say that he is advising everyone who asks, healthy or not, to stay away from Disney for now. He also recommends staying out of big cities and large gatherings of people in general, but he repeatedly stressed Disney as a particularly bad place to be right now.

The doc did say that he thinks the whole thing is being blown out of proportion, and he believes the virus will be contained in the next month or so. But until then, he thinks going to Disney is a stupid risk to take. Again, he did NOT confirm nor deny the possible swine flu case at Disney, but he was very measured and thorough in his response.

As for us, we're postponing the trip until September and planning to hole up for awhile. Others may see it differently. Just wanted to share what we were told today by a doctor who regularly sees emergency cases from Disney.

No fear mongering in this post.:rolleyes:


Again what is it you do for a living?!:rolleyes1


I am going on with my plans just as they are (WDW or Big Cities).
 

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