Swim with Dolphins after seeing Blackfish...

[jenf22]

I agree with everything you've said.

Just as an aside, have you taken your DS to the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo in Colorado Springs? He'll get to feed the giraffes! They have one of the best giraffe breeding programs, something about the altitude is optimal for them, and some awesome habitats on the mountain.

It's on our list of things to do, but we haven't done it yet. Hopefully this spring or summer!

 

[sippican]

. An informed decision is what you will be most comfortable with and what will be right for you and your family.
That said, I have swum with dolphins at Discovery Cove, I love Sea World, and I will go there and give them my money.
That said, I will not swim with dolphins anywhere except Discovery Cove.

Totaly agree with making informed decisions, and do not "hate or vilify" you for making a personal choice.
A simple web search on the treatment of dolhpins at Discovery Cove paints no rosy picture.
Have you seen either of the films mentioned? If not I urge you to do so to to stay well-informed and cognizant of both sides of the issue.

 

[ilovebassets]

I would never ever do any kind of swim with the dolphin activity anywhere, but ESPECIALLY in Mexico or any cruise destination where regulation and oversight is essentially zero. Those dolphins and animals are captured from the wild and for every one you see in captivity, many have died during transport or during the attempted capture. Totally different than established zoo breeding programs.

It saddens me that these have become so popular in recent years. I truly believe if more people knew what suffering happened to establish these places, fewer people would go to them.

I personally will never go to SeaWorld but at least the trainers and veterinarians there have the animals' interests at heart and have the best training available to manage these animals. That's hardly going to be the case in 99% of random swim with the dolphin programs around the caribbean.

Maybe you can watch Blackfish and still go to SeaWorld (I can't), but there's no way anyone with a heart can watch The Cove and patronize swim with the dolphin places.

 

[ludari]

Hey Surfer Ed,

I love the ocean and spend a lot of my time doing all sorts of water sports. As an avid scuba diver I am part of group of eco divers who protect our oceans wildlife and I would never do anything to harm them. Nevertheless, I would never condemn or force my views on anyone who wanted to swim with dolphins as much as I am against such things.

I'm sure whatever decision you make it would be the right one for you to live with.

 

[LittleD525]

Last summer we visited Hawaii and the resort we stayed at had a captive dolphin encounter. I was very much against signing the kids up for it. DH really wanted them to have the experience. I felt regretful the entire time. I hated it. It really wasn't all that great of an experience and the kids had a take it or leave kind of attitude about it. Plus, it was overwhelmingly expensive. Later in the trip, we did a night snorkel with wild manta rays out in the ocean. It was amazing. The most heavenly experience you could have on earth. The kids still talk about it weekly. The same company operates a daytime snorkel with wild dolphins and I still to this day kick myself for not doing that one instead of the captive dolphin experience.

Personally and morally, our family will never participate in a captive dolphin experience again.

 

[geoly1]

Our family has done discovery cove twice. First time I did the dolphin encounter but second time I did not as I felt as other posters uncomfortable with animal servitude. But I did not project those objections on my family. If your daughter's dream is to swim with dolphins have her make her own decision. Good luck & have a great cruise!

 

[pequele]

Our family has done discovery cove twice. First time I did the dolphin encounter but second time I did not as I felt as other posters uncomfortable with animal servitude. But I did not project those objections on my family. If your daughter's dream is to swim with dolphins have her make her own decision. Good luck & have a great cruise!

Exactly. Keywords here are "if that's HER dream". Yes you ultimately are the one paying for it but wouldn't you like that your daughter can grow up being responsible and making her own decisions for herself. Maybe one day she would look back on her decision to swim with the dolphins as others have here. Believe me, it will be more self impacting for HER to make those decisions not you. She is not deciding something that is breaking the law or going to result in death but directing your child to follow your ideals and beliefs is not respecting her as an individual. She's a child and a child that right now dreams of swimming with dolphins. Will she always feel this way? Maybe not but she certainly will not if you tell her how to feel. Let her be a kid and dream.

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[pillow]

Exactly. Keywords here are "if that's HER dream". Yes you ultimately are the one paying for it but wouldn't you like that your daughter can grow up being responsible and making her own decisions for herself. Maybe one day she would look back on her decision to swim with the dolphins as others have here. Believe me, it will be more self impacting for HER to make those decisions not you. She is not deciding something that is breaking the law or going to result in death but directing your child to follow your ideals and beliefs is not respecting her as an individual. She's a child and a child that right now dreams of swimming with dolphins. Will she always feel this way? Maybe not but she certainly will not if you tell her how to feel. Let her be a kid and dream.

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But I think its important that we teach our kids that its not ok to pursue a dream that hurts others. Kids often times don't understand the ramifications of their actions.

Jodie

 

[pequele]

But I think its important that we teach our kids that its not ok to pursue a dream that hurts others. Kids often times don't understand the ramifications of their actions. Jodie

Very true, so educate her on the good AND the bad so she can make her own decision of it but do not impose your beliefs on someone else because that hurts others as well. Because kids don't understand the ramifications of not having their own thoughts and beliefs either. Keep your view out of it and let her learn to make decisions on her own. People can argue that cruising in general is bad for ocean and or local habitat. The computer or phone you are using is not going to biodegrade and is not meant to last (as a working computer) for long. People go buy new printers when they need new ink because the ink is more expensive than a printer. I HATE beets, my son loves them, do I not buy them because I hate them? No. I don't force my opinions on my kid. Heck I let him be the decision maker on whether we sail to Alaska or Europe this year. I asked him to tell me what he liked about each and what he did not like. He made the decision and he told me why he made that decision. He is FIVE! Don't tell me that visiting ancient ruins in Europe is good for them when tourists flock to town. The destruction of human wear, the trash, people defacing, etc isn't good for future generations to get a chance to see these things. Have you seen things like the steps to the top of St Peter's Basilica? Worn and indented from thousands of people walking up the steps in their shoes. Someday this will not be an option for people to do. EVERYTHING we do on this planet makes an impact. Swimming with the dolphins could be the first step in this young girl being part of the future generations who tries to better the plight of animals kept at zoos and enclosed sanctuaries. It can be a learning experience for her both before and after. Before, she can make a lists of things she thinks can help or hurt by swimming with dolphins. Maybe she can provide some facts with the help of parents doing an internet search of the location the dolphins are at (ie Blue Lagoon in Nassau specifically) and write a few of those things down. After the trip she can write down things she learned (things like how she can help the dolphins in the future). It doesn't have to be a miserable experience to learn a little about a place you are visiting and/or have visited! She's 10 (if I recall correctly) so she can make it fun! She can start a scrapbook to put her lists in, her ideas of what she thinks it will be like, then pics from the day and what she learned etc after. Forcing your view on someone doesn't help people, it hurts them. Sent from Stephie's iPhone using DISBoards

 

[Subrbnmommy]

We just got off the Fantasy on Saturday and I was in a similar situation as you. My DD10 really wanted to swim with dolphins. She loves all animals and loves to interact with them. I am conflicted when it comes to interacting with dolphins.
I decided against booking it. She wanted to do it in Costa Maya. I am so glad we didn’t. When we got out of the ship we walked past the pools that held the dolphins. The pools are so so small and seeing the high amount of people waiting for their chance with the dolphin was disturbing (for me). Seeing it up close broke my heart and ruined part of my day.
So, the decision is yours.

 

[pillow]

Very true, so educate her on the good AND the bad so she can make her own decision of it but do not impose your beliefs on someone else because that hurts others as well. Because kids don't understand the ramifications of not having their own thoughts and beliefs either. Keep your view out of it and let her learn to make decisions on her own. People can argue that cruising in general is bad for ocean and or local habitat. The computer or phone you are using is not going to biodegrade and is not meant to last (as a working computer) for long. People go buy new printers when they need new ink because the ink is more expensive than a printer. I HATE beets, my son loves them, do I not buy them because I hate them? No. I don't force my opinions on my kid. Heck I let him be the decision maker on whether we sail to Alaska or Europe this year. I asked him to tell me what he liked about each and what he did not like. He made the decision and he told me why he made that decision. He is FIVE! Don't tell me that visiting ancient ruins in Europe is good for them when tourists flock to town. The destruction of human wear, the trash, people defacing, etc isn't good for future generations to get a chance to see these things. Have you seen things like the steps to the top of St Peter's Basilica? Worn and indented from thousands of people walking up the steps in their shoes. Someday this will not be an option for people to do. EVERYTHING we do on this planet makes an impact. Swimming with the dolphins could be the first step in this young girl being part of the future generations who tries to better the plight of animals kept at zoos and enclosed sanctuaries. It can be a learning experience for her both before and after. Before, she can make a lists of things she thinks can help or hurt by swimming with dolphins. Maybe she can provide some facts with the help of parents doing an internet search of the location the dolphins are at (ie Blue Lagoon in Nassau specifically) and write a few of those things down. After the trip she can write down things she learned (things like how she can help the dolphins in the future). It doesn't have to be a miserable experience to learn a little about a place you are visiting and/or have visited! She's 10 (if I recall correctly) so she can make it fun! She can start a scrapbook to put her lists in, her ideas of what she thinks it will be like, then pics from the day and what she learned etc after. Forcing your view on someone doesn't help people, it hurts them. Sent from Stephie's iPhone using DISBoards

I sure hope I impose some of my beliefs on my kids! After all, they grow up in our household. They model us (the good stuff only though - not the bad - ha). They learn their values and right and wrong from us. I don't necessarily disagree with everything you say above. However, my decision to say, "No, we're not doing this as a family because its not right to treat animals in this manner," is no different than saying "No - you're not going to send a mean text to your friend because its wrong and it could hurt his feelings." There are many things we let our kids decide, but this is not one of them. As another parent so eloquently said on another thread . . . they get a vote, but not veto power. Love that one!

Jodie

 

[STLDisney_Freak]

Doing a suprprsie 10th Birthday Cruise for my Daughter in the fall on Disney Fantasy.

We were planning on Swimming with the Dolphins as the highlight of the trip.

Watched Blackfish on the weekend and now I am having second thoughts on this type of activity. I know it is heavily slanted against Seaworld and other parks in particular but I am finding that I have a bit of an ethical question in my mind about captive animals for shows.

I should point out in my younger days I actually trained as a Marine Biologist and think I know a little about conservation, animals in captivity, the need to educate etc but I am really torn.

Anyone else having second thoughts on this?

Our family did the dolphin encounter in Mexico. We had a blast. I've watched the movie. I don't choose to get into my views because I think it a whole can of worms and I don't want to . But would I go to another dolphin encounter, Yes. Am I having second thoughts? No

 

[sippican]

But I think its important that we teach our kids that its not ok to pursue a dream that hurts others. Kids often times don't understand the ramifications of their actions.

Jodie

Agree completely.
I do not agree with letting them form their own opinions at the expense of any living creature. A parent's job is to guide children towards being the people you hope they will be. I'm wondering what message it sends by supporting their participation in something you feel is wrong or against your personal beliefs?
Thay have plenty of time to test their own opinions as adults, and they will.

 

[surfer_ed]

Great discussion, hopefully no one was offended because I value everyone's view point.

I think if I educated my daughter she would not want to do this. She is kind hearted and at a young age has some appreciation for the well being of animals...but I guess I am reluctant to shatter her dreams. I can't show her Blackfish, she does not have the wisdom to filter the conflicting information.

Leaning towards no, particulary because it is Mexico and I doubt there are any standards.

Also going on a cruise for your 10th birthday is pretty terrific so I should not fret not giving her a great birthday.

Maybe I should look into more of a dolphin in the wild encounter with her when we are in Aulani next year. We did the Dolphin cruise last year and saw spinner dolphins and she loved it.

There is not real answer here I guess just educated decisions based on personal sense of ethics.

 

[jenf22]

Great discussion, hopefully no one was offended because I value everyone's view point.

I think if I educated my daughter she would not want to do this. She is kind hearted and at a young age has some appreciation for the well being of animals...but I guess I am reluctant to shatter her dreams. I can't show her Blackfish, she does not have the wisdom to filter the conflicting information.

Leaning towards no, particulary because it is Mexico and I doubt there are any standards.

Also going on a cruise for your 10th birthday is pretty terrific so I should not fret not giving her a great birthday.

Maybe I should look into more of a dolphin in the wild encounter with her when we are in Aulani next year. We did the Dolphin cruise last year and saw spinner dolphins and she loved it.

There is not real answer here I guess just educated decisions based on personal sense of ethics.

I'm glad you're back! Maybe you could sponsor a dolphin with a donation to a charity in her name. I know with NWF you can get a stuffed animal too. Just a thought!

http://www.shopnwf.org/Adoption-Center/Adopt-a-Bottlenose-Dolphin/index.cat

 

[OKW Lover]

We were planning on Swimming with the Dolphins as the highlight of the trip.

Watched Blackfish on the weekend and now I am having second thoughts on this type of activity. I know it is heavily slanted against Seaworld and other parks in particular but I am finding that I have a bit of an ethical question in my mind about captive animals for shows.

How about captive animals in zoos? Should we boycott Animal Kingdom?

 

[ocspartan]

How about captive animals in zoos? Should we boycott Animal Kingdom?

Yeah I've struggled with that too, the difference in my mind is that at zoos and animal kingdom the animals primarily aren't being trained to do pet tricks if that makes any sense, also while some animals need to be protected in captivity and do better and survive longer bc of the nourishment and lack of predators, The orcas based on the film and other readings seem to have significantly shorter life spans and something about the dropped dorsal fin really gets at me....

 

[nabi]

How about captive animals in zoos? Should we boycott Animal Kingdom?

if you need to ask then yes, please do.

 

[Disney is forever]

I pretty much agree too. I've been following this thread and then yesterday my 6-year old son comes home with a little paper he wrote about how dolphins are his favorite animal. Would he have that love had he never met one or seen a real one? Probably not. We've done the dolphin interaction 3 times at Dolphin Quest at the Hilton Waikoloa Village (awesome place!) and they spend over half the time doing dolphin education. Very little time is spent in the water. I've read not-so-great things about the programs in Mexico and the Bahamas. While I agree life at Sea World for orcas is not the best for them, I wonder if those specific creatures are making a sacrifice for the good of their species. I know it's not fair to them since they were not given a choice, but how many children grow to love orcas because of Sea World? I know I did. I was obsessed with seeing orcas in the wild because of my time at Sea World as a child (I did eventually see them on a trip to Victoria and then again from the Wonder in Alaska!) We try to teach our son about conservation and we visit the Denver Zoo a lot. We read all the signs and he loves seeing where the animal lives naturally. He makes comments about how they don't live many places any more. We try to use the zoo to teach him about loving animals and helping them not become extinct. I know most people don't use it that way (obvious by the number of rug-rats who chase the geese at the zoo ), and that makes me sad. It's a tricky problem with no easy answer (in my opinion anyway). Best of luck making your decision. Have a great cruise either way! Edit - With respect to the sled dogs... We did a dog cart ride in Alaska and those dogs were super excited to pull the cart. There is a guy at work who does carting trials with his Rottweilers. They absolutely love it. Some dogs need a job to be happy. We have an Aussie and are constantly trying to come up with "jobs" for him to do so he's not bored. I'm sure there are good and bad sled dog operations, but I firmly believe a lot of dogs owners love these dogs like they are their children.

Agreed!

 

[bumbershoot]

Would he have that love had he never met one or seen a real one? Probably not.

I managed to develop a massive love for panthers and elephants without seeing one, interacting with one, or swimming with one. (hmm, that last bit was odd) It was my adoration of animals that got my mom to *take me* to the no-longer-in-existence MarineWorld USA in the Bay Area, where she had a friend who worked with the animals and who took us backstage. And we were walking by the back of the Big Cat enclosure when one saw me and looked at me like I was his lunch. It was rather terrifying for everyone, even the handler, and we left rather quickly.

So I really truly did NOT need to be anywhere near the animals in order to love them and want to save them.

And if I found out years later that I was taken somewhere to interact with animals, and my mom knew of all the issues with the place, I'd have a problem in retrospect.

Once I started learning more about the breeding program and the way the babies are handled at our local zoo, and especially after the second beluga whale died decades too young, we stopped going there. Apart from AK I haven't been to a place where they keep animals in enclosures since that time because I'm so bothered by it all. Decent zoos aren't going out and capturing wild animals. They are breeding them. Good zoos are trying to help them feel at home as much as possible. If we suddenly closed the zoos and seaworld and put all those animals out into their "home" environments, they'd be dead inside a week. Is THAT kind and good-hearted? No, I don't think so.

But...I don't go to them.

And I'm not swimming with dolphins. Like I said on page one...too many Carl Hiassen books for me....gah.