Swan and Dolphin - Whats The Deal?

sdzman

Kid @ Heart
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
662
I have stayed at the Dolphin and thought is was a great resort. I was wondering if anyone knew the backstory about these resorts? Why did Disney allow these to be built on prime WDW property? The Dolphin stands out like a sore thumb behind World Showcase. It doesnt seem very Disney like. I am not speaking against these resorts, just was curious.
 
I read a bit about the resorts recently. I don't remember all of the details, but apparently Disney approved the designs.
 
Rumors I heard was that at one time the monorail was planned to stop between them and then continue to Disney Studios. The story further explains that due to a disagreement, Disney cancelled the plan and curved the monorail around Spaceship Earth.

Any truth to this?
 

I think they loaned money to Disney when they needed cash. In return they could build the hotels.
 
Yes - my understanding is similar to the dish's. I just don't recall the details. I think it was supposedly a company that was very much involved with building for Disney (in EPCOT).
 
Wow! I had no idea...very interesting information. It's amazing how Disney went from a few resorts in 1984 to 14+ now. Thanks WEDWDW!
 
I'm not sure how accurate the Swan/Dolphin story on Allears really is...

For example, the whole "loan" to Disney during the early 80's doesn't jive with the story I was told as a Cast Member in the mid-90's.

Basically, what I was told (by execs at the time) was that pre-Eisner Disney had deals in place with lots of hotel operators (most specifically, Marriott) to come in and build/operate hotels in Disney World under much the same kind of arrangement Universal currently has with Loews - where Universal owns the hotels but Loews runs them.

Back then, Disney leadership wasn't sure they wanted to be a hotel operator (they didn't even own the Disneyland Hotel then) and running the Polynesian/Contemp was even something they weren't sure they wanted to do long term (after all it's primarily a movie studio / theme park company then...) Don't forget this was also the time when Disney was selling "lots" on Hotel Plaza Blvd for outside companies to build hotels on yet still call them "inside" of Disney World. At that time, these hotels were even serviced by the WDW Bus System (places like the Hilton Downtown Disney, Buena Vista Palace, etc..) That's why they get to call themselves "the" official hotels of Walt Disney World even though Disney would love to end that arrangement, as well.

So basically, from opening until the early 80's Disney was openly experimenting with different concepts for hotels onsite, only ONE involved them actually operating the hotels. Keep in mind, the majority of onsite rooms were actually run and even owned by outsiders (Hotel Plaza Blvd) until Eisner changed directions in 84!

After Eisner came around he/his team decided that the hotels could be extremely profitable and wanted Disney to build and operate lots more - they were then able to back out of all the agreements (some weren't even final) with people like Marriott and put an end to outsiders building on Disney land. No more lots were sold on Hotel Plaza Blvd, etc.

However, Tishman already had his deal signed and would NOT back out of it. Basically what happened was Disney threatened to find a way to break the deal, Tishman sued, and they settled by letting Disney pick the design (and I believe that Disney technically owns the Swan and Dolphin buildings as well.. Tishman has an uber long term lease..) and the rest is history.

Also, contrary to the Allears article - I believe Tishman had the site already designated as part of the original deal. There's no way Eisner would have given them such a prime location if he absolutely didn't have to... in fact, I recall one Imagineer telling me the design Tishman had would have looked positively awful from EPCOT (hence the site was already designated...) and that "what we got" was infinitely better.
 
The only things I'd like to add to the excellent link are:

#1 The Walt Disney Company was broke and near takeover and breakup at the time the Swan and Dolphin were in gestation. The company had sunk huge money into EPCOT and it's stock price was dirt cheap. Several investment groups were considering, or attempting, to purchase the company and break it up, selling off the pieces for far more than the paid for the total. One hostile group was paid to go away, "Greenmail," and the company was saved by friendly external investment groups. These groups deposed existing management and brought in the Wells/Eisner team.

#2 Michael Graves, the architect of the Swan and Dolphin did a great deal of work for Eisner/Disney, including the hiring or casting center at WDW. Graves was also put on the Board of Directors of the company by Eisner.

In retrospect, Disney would certainly prefer to own and control the theming of the 2 big hotels, instead of having Starwood on property. Personally, I love the whimsical architecture and theming of the Swan and Dolphin, and I've enjoyed many nights at the Swan. Plus Il Mulino is 200% better than any restaurant owned and run by Disney, that isn't named "Victoria and Albert's."
 
Wow! I had no idea...very interesting information. It's amazing how Disney went from a few resorts in 1984 to 14+ now. Thanks WEDWDW!

You're welcome.:)

The Swan/Dolphin history is so interesting!:)I really enjoyed the part of the article detailing the "backstory" of the S/D themes.:)

Yes,it really is amazing how many resorts are now at WDW.I "think" the number is 22 with Disney's Art of Animation Resort currently under construction and a heavily RUMORED(absolutely nothing confirmed!) DVC Resort possibly in the future between Wilderness Lodge and Fort Wilderness.WOW!:)
 














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