sure wish parents would watch their kids

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Really? You want to bring up a topic that's all but banned on the boards?

It's already gone off the rails, what's one more train car over the side?

 

[Tink-osophy]

Kids don't need "their butts whooped sometimes". They don't ever "need" that. Sure, many of us here have endured some form of spanking, paddling...etc as kids. We're not "better for it".....we endured it because our parents didn't have the tools or education to do better. That doesn't mean our parents were bad people, but I know my own Mother winces at the thought of her younger self and the occasional use of the "wooden spoon" in my house when we were little kids...because that's what her Mother did to her. Her two daughters who do have children....do not physically discipline their children (her grandchildren)...so, in my family at least, we've improved in this department.

The goal is to evolve as human beings...we get smarter, and hopefully we do better. This is why newborns aren't placed in the backseat of the station wagon in a basket as I was 55 years ago. Now, they're strapped in like they're about to embark on a mission to Mars....because we have learned....and adjusted.

Well said! However you try to dress it up with different vocabulary and excuses - hitting is hitting. Adults who hit their children are doing so because it makes them feel more in control, more quickly - not because it is in the best interests of the child (quite the reverse, but that's a different thread). There are other tools; they just take more thought and patience. Luckily, more and more adults are aware of this these days and make the effort to learn different approaches.

I haven’t read this whole long thread, but my concern would be safety for the children. A few years ago we were staying at Wilderness Lodge and took the boat over to the Magic Kingdom. As the boat filled up with people a family with three or four young children boarded and sat in the front of the boat. However one of their children, a young boy, didn’t sit. He constantly moved around the boat, although announcements were made that everyone was required to remain seated. The parents completely ignored him. Didn’t look his way at all. When the boat arrived at the dock a staff person put down the gangplank and he was the first to lunge for it. He almost fell off the boat and there was a collective gasp as someone (not his parents) caught him before he fell into the water. He was probably a handful but couldn’t help but worry about him.

I agree. I think the OP's first post is foremost about safety (the children's, as well as those around them). It's about taking responsibility for one's children, yes for the comfort and safety of the people they're impacting, but even more so for the children's own safety and well-being (and sociability).

 

[White Cat]

So you are advocating both dogs and children should be hit as a form of discipline?

Please go back and read my post that you responded to with this quote. Makes no sense.

 

[EilonwyWanderer]

On a serious note, that's an invalid argument IMO. The relationship from a child to a parent is different than the relationship from a parent to a child.

Can/have you made your child do something they don't want to do (eat something they didn't like, clean their room, door their homework)? I'd be surprised if you haven't.
Can your child make YOU do something you don't want to do (take them to the park, give them ice cream)? Why not?

I don't think it's an invalid argument. If you hit your child then turn around and tell your child that hitting is bad...I mean. Come on. What are they supposed to think except that their parents are bad? And guess what--they're right!

You're talking about power dynamics. Which is another reason why it is never, ever okay to hit a child no matter how lightly you think you're doing it. You're bigger than them. There are SO MANY OTHER WAYS to get a child's attention or redirect it, especially when they're small. You can literally just pick them up.

Anecdotal data of 'well I hit my kids and they're fine!' is like 'well I didn't sit in a car seat when I was young and I'm fine!'

Well, a lot of people weren't and that's why we have safe car seats now. Your anecdotal evidence is nothing compared to all the literature and studies out there that OVERWHELMINGLY SAY that corporal punishment is detrimental is children in NUMEROUS ways.

"Corporal or physical punishment is defined by the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, which oversees the Convention on the Rights of the Child, as “any punishment in which physical force is used and intended to cause some degree of pain or discomfort, however light.”"

 

[tinkerbellandpeterpan]

People wth out children often bring up that they have pets and try to equate it to raising children. You can’t. It was just a matter of time for this ti be brought up.

That’s not at all what she said. She basically said she wouldn’t even hit a dog therefore knows she would never hit her child. It’s the exact opposite of what you think.

 

[sam_gordon]

I don't think it's an invalid argument. If you hit your child then turn around and tell your child that hitting is bad...I mean. Come on. What are they supposed to think except that their parents are bad? And guess what--they're right!

Way to move the goal posts. You asked about "allowing" kids to hit the parents. The dynamic is different. There's a LOT that parent can "do" to a child that is inappropriate for a child to do to the parent. Or do you disagree?

You're talking about power dynamics. Which is another reason why it is never, ever okay to hit a child no matter how lightly you think you're doing it. You're bigger than them. There are SO MANY OTHER WAYS to get a child's attention or redirect it, especially when they're small. You can literally just pick them up.

As I said before, I'm glad you didn't have to utilize that particular punishment. I just hope you realize all kids are different and react differently. I never had to spank our youngest. Do I wish I didn't need to spank? Sure. Do I regret it? No. Do I feel it got the point across (and quickly)? Yes.

Anecdotal data of 'well I hit my kids and they're fine!' is like 'well I didn't sit in a car seat when I was young and I'm fine!'

Well, a lot of people weren't and that's why we have safe car seats now. Your anecdotal evidence is nothing compared to all the literature and studies out there that OVERWHELMINGLY SAY that corporal punishment is detrimental is children in NUMEROUS ways.

So my anecdotal evidence is the exception to the "rule" that corporal punishment will make our kids "fear" their parents. I'm fine with that.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So my anecdotal evidence is the exception to the "rule" that corporal punishment will make our kids "fear" their parents. I'm fine with that.

This really isn't the topic you want to be the exception to the rule nor hope you are the exception to the rule. Re-read your comment say it out loud, repeat it several times, repeat it a few more times.

 

[DCLMP]

Waiting for one or two posters to respond..."right, but they could never understand that it's wrong to beat a child...because they don't have children."

Looks like beat to me.

 

[White Cat]

That’s not at all what she said. She basically said she wouldn’t even hit a dog therefore knows she would never hit her child. It’s the exact opposite of what you think.

She can’t know what she would do.

 

[DCLMP]

You raise an interesting point, not sure how I feel about leashes on kids - i get the utility of them and all. It does feel like we are getting into semantics a bit with swatting versus beating versus gradients of forceful physical contact

I was referring to a leash on a dog. You can’t say you never use forceful physical contact with your dog if you put a leash on your dog. If a leash is what it takes to keep a kid safe then I’m all for it. Some kids have issues and your primary job as a parent is their safety.

I think the biggest problem with this thread is stuff is being taken out of context.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

This really isn't the topic you want to be the exception to the rule nor hope you are the exception to the rule. Re-read your comment say it out loud, repeat it several times, repeat it a few more times.

Despite what some appear to believe, there would be many exceptions to the rule. I don't personally know anyone my age that wasn't spanked a few times, when they were growing up. None of them feared their parents. As a mattered of fact, they all adored them, as I did mine. I wouldn't have traded my parents for anyone else in the world. I'm sure they all felt the same way. The ones with living parents are still very close to them.

As far as the idea that you wouldn't hit a pet, so you definitely wouldn't spank a child, I've never had a pet that could upset me as much as my DS could as a teenager. There was never a reason to hit a pet, but we never spanked DS either.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

She can’t know what she would do.

The way you treat one vulnerable, dependent being in your care is a decent indication of how you would treat another.

I was against spanking before I had kids. Having kids did not suddenly change my mind on that subject. I don’t spank them, never have, never will.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Looks like beat to me.

sorry....missed that. I mostly said "hit" thought. But..you got me...whatever that proves to you, hope it makes you feel vindicated.

Hit, beat, swat, spank....it's all physical punishment. And it's all the wrong way to parent. And yup, I say this as someone who doesn't have kids. I can at least try and wrap my head around a parent "swatting" a kid's rear end....one time maybe.... in a fit of rage or fear.

But this thread took a hard left turn when corporal punishment came up....man, that's seriously insane to me. And if I was inclined to deliver corporal punishment as deliberate form of discipline....I'd worry about "prosecution" too. Because every friend and family member I know....to a person, would report that to the proper authorities if they heard about it from a kid.

 

[sam_gordon]

Sort of related... I just started a movie on Amazon Prime. A mom, dad, and teenage son get transported in time from 1992 to 2022. The son says something the dad doesn't like and the dad slaps him on the back of the head. That happens a couple of times and two police officers come up and ask the son if he wants to file charges. The dad says "I'm just slapping my son." Police: "That's illegal in 2022." I thought of this thread.

 

[dvcgirl67]

She can’t know what she would do.

Yes she can....because "she"....babysat for my niece and nephew for countless hours....and never would lay a hand on them as a form of punishment. My Husband and I moved to the same town where my sister and brother in law lived....because we wanted to be a part of their lives and a support system for their growing family. We arrived when my niece was 2 and my sister was carrying my nephew. I can't count the number of hours DH and I have been alone and in charge of these two amazing children who are now teenagers. The sleepovers...etc. Do you think I'm not familiar with a toddler meltdown because I didn't give birth to them? LOL! I mean...seriously?

Again, we use other strategies in our family...."time out" being the final line when they were little. Now...my sisters and spouses restrict them in other ways....take away the car, the iPhone, iPad,...etc. There are zillions of parenting classes and books out there for those who are interested in non-violent ways to parent or sit/care for their children or family members who are children or teens.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Despite what some appear to believe, there would be many exceptions to the rule. I don't personally know anyone my age that wasn't spanked a few times, when they were growing up. None of them feared their parents. As a mattered of fact, they all adored them, as I did mine. I wouldn't have traded my parents for anyone else in the world. I'm sure they all felt the same way. The ones with living parents are still very close to them.

As far as the idea that you wouldn't hit a pet, so you definitely wouldn't spank a child, I've never had a pet that could upset me as much as my DS could as a teenager. There was never a reason to hit a pet, but we never spanked DS either.

People are taking the studies and research out there (and I don't know if people have even looked into that or are just going on their own personal opinions) to be like "hey wait a minute so and so doesn't fit into that" and trying to argue with other people about that. That would be a fruitless argument.

With nearly 8 billion people in the world I'm sure we can find a study that so and so doesn't fit perfectly aligned with it or believe in their opinion they don't align with it but I would challenge people to think is that the point? Or is that what you want to argue with people on the DIS that you and/or your child and/or someone you knew you personally believe fits outside of the studies regarding the particular topic regarding physical punishment?

As far as "you don't personally know anyone your age" that is a point I've made multiple times. Someone 30,40,50,60 70, etc years old all that does is place things into a social context as a reference in time. It doesn't alter the research, longitudinal studies and meta-analysis of studies as a matter of public guidance provided regarding the topics.

 

[White Cat]

Yes she can....because "she"....babysat for my niece and nephew for countless hours....and never would lay a hand on them as a form of punishment. My Husband and I moved to the same town where my sister and brother in law lived....because we wanted to be a part of their lives and a support system for their growing family. We arrived when my niece was 2 and my sister was carrying my nephew. I can't count the number of hours DH and I have been alone and in charge of these two amazing children who are now teenagers. The sleepovers...etc. Do you think I'm not familiar with a toddler meltdown because I didn't give birth to them? LOL! I mean...seriously?

Again, we use other strategies in our family...."time out" being the final line when they were little. Now...my sisters and spouses restrict them in other ways....take away the car, the iPhone, iPad,...etc. There are zillions of parenting classes and books out there for those who are interested in non-violent ways to parent or sit/care for their children or family members who are children or teens.

Ah the niece nephew thing. Was waiting for that one.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Ah the niece nephew thing. Was waiting for that one.

omg....lol!!! I was waiting for your exact response too!!

 

[john7994]

I was referring to a leash on a dog. You can’t say you never use forceful physical contact with your dog if you put a leash on your dog. If a leash is what it takes to keep a kid safe then I’m all for it. Some kids have issues and your primary job as a parent is their safety.

I think the biggest problem with this thread is stuff is being taken out of context.

I can definitely think of bigger things than that ... but sure ... we can go with the context one.

 

[dreamer17555]

The amount of semantics about if you don’t have kids you can’t know you wouldn’t hit them is this idea that “one you are in the thick of it you will make the same choices I did” which is simply not true.

Many people don’t use corporal punishment. More and more parents model staying calm and using a calm voice- something that was not done in my household when I was a child.

The idea that a poster would use it because you felt personally it was your only choice (it wasn’t) is just a way to try to justify your actions. Just own them. Own that some people have managed to raise kind, helpful children without yelling or hitting them.