Sure Glad We Got to Use FastPass Instead of FP+

doconeill

Fastpass Jedi Master
DIS Lifetime Sponsor
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Nooooo! If you can only schedule 3 with FP+ and not pick up paper passes too, standby lines will get positively obscene :/
Not entirely sure about that...been thinking about it a bit, and if the amount of FP/FP+ remains a constant, in theory the standby lines would also remain constant. The difference is that different people are using the FP/FP+, instead of some who get 7-8 FPs while others don't get any.

I vaguely recall a statement somewhere that 3 was an "average" number of FP used per guest. If that's the case, then things aren't likely to change if everything else was equal.

Is everything else equal? Not necessarily.

1) While it will reduce the number that power users can get, it may not necessarily increase use at the other end of the scale. We all know the anecdotes of guests who still believe that FP was "pay-to-play", or just didn't get it, and never used it. Not sure FP+ will change that in any way. So FP+ use might actually drop compared to FP+. That would benefit the standby line, speeding it up, until Disney adjusts.

2) If the power users used their FPs to ride attractions several times, they may not rid them repeatedly any more, which means they wouldn't then get in the standby line multiple times - reducing use of the standby line further.

I'm having trouble coming up with a scenario where the lines would get longer in terms of time at the moment.

The real change is that the power users will have to use the standby line where they haven't before if they still want to do everything, and so of course the lines will seem longer to them. :)


My opinion, yes, they will start charging for "extra" FPs beyond the three available with FP+. Maybe not right away, but in time. Too much unrealized revenue being left on the table. And lots of people will have no problem paying for it.

Jim
It will depend how this goes. They can't charge for additional FP+ if they don't actually have them. I'd be quite angry if I paid for two extra FP+, but all I could get were the likes of IASW and Figment...
 

ilostnemo

Mouseketeer
Joined
May 8, 2013
eticketride said:
Back when there were no fastpasses, I wasn't paying $95 bucks to get in. Also, there used to be actual slow times of the year where you could go and wait 15 minutes for Space Mountain at noon on a Thursday and then walk on Jungle Cruise.
If fast passes were never created you'd still be paying that amount. And there are still slow times like that. I've been there to witness it. I've walked straight on space mountain in 2008 multiple times.
 

Kristine316

Mouseketeer
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
If fast passes were never created you'd still be paying that amount. And there are still slow times like that. I've been there to witness it. I've walked straight on space mountain in 2008 multiple times.

I would love to know what time of year you went where you could walk on Space Mountain multiple times in a row without waiting.. sounds fantastic. Ofcourse, I would probably need a time machine as well because from the sound of it Disney is much busier now than it was 5 years ago.

We were there in September 2012 in what was suppose to be one of the slowest weeks of the entire year and we still had to wait in line for Space Mountain.
 
  • PrincessArlena'sDad

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 5, 2009
    What I find the funniest about all of this. How did you all act when there were no fast passes..... You waited in line. You had too now everyone has become accustomed to FP so they throw a fit when something changes. The lines themselves can lead to some magical moments.
    Before FP, the lines moved much faster. In fact, most lines were constantly moving, with few/no complete stops. This makes the lines much more tolerable and less frustrating.

    It is much easier to keep moving than to stand still for long perods at a time, as what happens now with FP.
     

    Rileygirl

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jan 20, 2003
    Not entirely sure about that...been thinking about it a bit, and if the amount of FP/FP+ remains a constant, in theory the standby lines would also remain constant. The difference is that different people are using the FP/FP+, instead of some who get 7-8 FPs while others don't get any.

    I vaguely recall a statement somewhere that 3 was an "average" number of FP used per guest. If that's the case, then things aren't likely to change if everything else was equal.

    Is everything else equal? Not necessarily.

    1) While it will reduce the number that power users can get, it may not necessarily increase use at the other end of the scale. We all know the anecdotes of guests who still believe that FP was "pay-to-play", or just didn't get it, and never used it. Not sure FP+ will change that in any way. So FP+ use might actually drop compared to FP+. That would benefit the standby line, speeding it up, until Disney adjusts.

    2) If the power users used their FPs to ride attractions several times, they may not rid them repeatedly any more, which means they wouldn't then get in the standby line multiple times - reducing use of the standby line further.

    I'm having trouble coming up with a scenario where the lines would get longer in terms of time at the moment.

    The real change is that the power users will have to use the standby line where they haven't before if they still want to do everything, and so of course the lines will seem longer to them. :)




    It will depend how this goes. They can't charge for additional FP+ if they don't actually have them. I'd be quite angry if I paid for two extra FP+, but all I could get were the likes of IASW and Figment...
    I am not sure I can buy into the assumption that the number of fast passes available will remain the same ratio as we see it today. We need to remember that even if only the resort guests can prebook 60 days out, Disney needs to be able to guarentee 3 fp for every single guest that goes through the turnstile if needed. Or maybe they will just have a threshold number like 80%. This will not be a problem for the MK, even at peak season, with the number of attractions that are now online. But you only have to look at the 'epcot' list and think regular season, and wonder how the heck they are going to manage that. I think there will be lots of tinkering with ratios, depending on which park and at what season.

    Looks like roll out may be very slow, so it wont be an impact for a while though.

    It reminds me of what has happened with the dining plan, for example. Think back to when they first offered it and what was included, and compare that with what you get now. (not that it's not still plenty) So many of the good restaurants are now 2 TS credits, too. It's like everywhere else.....less for more $.
    This is exactly what I was thinking too. I was wondering why they are testing the system so weird. The first set of tests, people could use both old fp and fp+. How is that an accurate test, given we know the parameters that the T&C set out? This new round of tests appear to be 'tierless' so how is that going to be accurate, unless there are no tiers? And then I started thinking, maybe they are just testing the straight up function and data aspect of this whole system with these minor tests, and doing a little positive PR along the way. I am sure people loved the system when they could do both fp+ and fp, and will remember how much they loved it when planning their next trip. And the upcoming test, with no tiers, and only what 5% or 10% playing the game, well multiple e attraction fp+, who wouldnt love that, especially if there were lots for prebooking, and then lots the day of. These people will love it too. And when it first starts up, whole hog, there will still be a large number of people who wont know how to use it, so again, there could be lots of great PR. Disney will be wanting lots of facebook and tweets, and whatever else they can get at this stage of the game. Transitions can be fantastic! But as time goes on, like the dining plan, you get less for more, and have to work harder for it.

    What I find the funniest about all of this. How did you all act when there were no fast passes..... You waited in line. You had too now everyone has become accustomed to FP so they throw a fit when something changes. The lines themselves can lead to some magical moments.
    You are right, we are very suspicious of change as a group. It could be great. The exciting thing is, we are going to start to see it in action. Less speculation, and more straight up facts. Woohoo.
     

    magicbob

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 16, 2008
    Yep, that is a basic concern for many of us. We'll just have to see if we'll be able to get additional ones day-of, and if they're useful FPs or chump FPs.
    This.

    Wouldn't it be nice if we can "schedule" 3 FP and then pick up more FP as normally do?
    If "same day FP+" is also available and if you can get "same day FP+s" for decent rides like you can now with current FP system, then the new system could be a nice improvement. We'll still be able to use FP+ pretty much the way we use FP now, but have the added benefit of pre-scheduling three of them.

    Here's the thing. That sounds too good to be true to me. And when something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

    What I find the funniest about all of this. How did you all act when there were no fast passes..... You waited in line. You had too now everyone has become accustomed to FP so they throw a fit when something changes. The lines themselves can lead to some magical moments.
    I remember well the days before FP. Yes, we waited in lines, but there were millions fewer guests in the park in those lines with us. The lines were not 2+ hours like they are now. You waited 15-30 minutes tops... maybe 60 min. wait for Space Mountain (and sometimes 45 minutes for Dumbo because it's such a slow loader) on the busiest days. If we are limited to three FP+s, we'll not only have to wait in more standby lines than we used to. But those lines are a lot longer than they were in the past.

    We all know someone (or you've at least heard the stories) of a friend or family member who went to WDW without a clue and came back complaining that they would never return because they stood in 1-2 hour lines and only got to ride 4 rides all day. FP+ (as currently descirbed) will force ALL of us into those lines and, despite our knowledge and planning, will result in everyone having a similar experience to these disenchanted guests.

    Losing the benefits that the current FP system provides is worth "throwing a fit about" (although I maintain that people here are mostly just expressing concerns for the future, not throwing a fit). Not just because something is changing, but because it's not changing for the better.
     

    LadyBeBop

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 28, 2009
    The whole concept of FP vs. FP+ is befuddling at best.

    I thought the main idea of FP was to keep the guests out of the lines, and into the shops and restaurants. The longer you're in the lines, the less money you spend.

    Someone mentioned the interactive queues as a precursor to FP+ and longer lines. From a purely money standpoint, that does not make sense. You spend millions of dollars updating the queues with no monetary return of investment (although you will have better customer satisfaction).

    To me, this sounds like a money-losing prospect for Disney. However, Disney never does anything purposely to lose money. They have this all figured out.

    I'm a little surprised they have never incorporated money making opportunities within the queue. At some parks, I've seen pop machines within the queue, especially at the hottest portions of outdoor lines. However that may be impossible within WDW's queues.
     
  • BenKling

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Jul 20, 2011
    Kristine316 said:
    I would love to know what time of year you went where you could walk on Space Mountain multiple times in a row without waiting.. sounds fantastic. Ofcourse, I would probably need a time machine as well because from the sound of it Disney is much busier now than it was 5 years ago.

    We were there in September 2012 in what was suppose to be one of the slowest weeks of the entire year and we still had to wait in line for Space Mountain.
    We were there last year in April (after spring break). Rode Space 7 times in an hour. Did the same thing at Splash.

    The longest we waited for anything was PPF, and that wasn't longer than 30.

    It can still be done!
     

    DisneyFive

    When is the 3:00 parade?
    Joined
    Jun 16, 2011
    Wouldn't it be nice if we can "schedule" 3 FP and then pick up more FP as normally do?
    For the short term, until FP+ is fully implemented, I thought that was the plan. You could do both.

    Thinking about it though, they could easily exclude one versus the other. The existing FP machines don't use RFID technology. So once you get a RFID wristband or RFID card, there is no way for the current FP machines to work with with your park ticket (the 'ol Key to the World card). I'm very interested to see how this plays out, and I hope to hear a lot more before our next trip in Sept. I have no big issue with FP+, AS LONG AS IT ISN'T LIMITED TO 3!

    What I find the funniest about all of this. How did you all act when there were no fast passes..... You waited in line. You had too now everyone has become accustomed to FP so they throw a fit when something changes. The lines themselves can lead to some magical moments.
    This post is puzzling to me. :confused3 So are you saying we should all go back to not using a FP system of some kind? Making magical moments in line isn't my preferred mode of making/getting pixie dust. :). I'd rather have them walking through a park or on an attraction. Standing in a queue is typically NOT a highlight of a trip to WDW. It has obviously made life much better in the parks for those who know how to use it. Of course folks are going to get upset if that is taken away or much more limited.

    Dan
     

    bryana

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 4, 2009
    We were there last year in April (after spring break). Rode Space 7 times in an hour. Did the same thing at Splash.

    The longest we waited for anything was PPF, and that wasn't longer than 30.

    It can still be done!
    I had a similar experience at the end of this past January. Hit Space Mountain 3 or 4 times in a half hour, walked right on to Jungle Cruise, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, etc. We were done almost every major ride within 2 or 3 hours. It was incredible, lol.
     

    Hootch

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 4, 2006
    is the only known item.

    It is possible the introduction of FP+ will severely limit the number of available regular FPs making that an unacceptable option. And since you can specify your time in advance, some time blocks may be reserved before anyone enters the park.

    Hypothetically, we rope droppers, knowing the park is pretty empty in the AM can put off our reserved FPs until later in the day. The people that do not want to arrive early make their FP ressies later in the day also. In which case, regular FPs would be available in the morning ans later in the evening and be hit or miss during the middle of the day.

    The three FPs in Fastpass + seem like a less desirable option, but, at this point, it is all speculation and we have plenty of time for that.
     
  • chmurf

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 30, 2011
    back in 2012, when Disney announced that FP return times would be enforced, there was an uproar.
    Some (on DIS) began to say that Doomsday was upon us. That it was the end of any sensible touring plan. Some even said they would never go back to Disneyworld if they dared enforce FP return times

    Now it's been over one year. The parks have scored a record attendance and a very noticeable increase in the number of guests and profit figures.

    It wasn't Doomsday after all.

    Now here we go all over again. Fear, speculations, everyone gets so worked up that we forget that we don't even know what FP+ will be about, truly, when it's fully deployed.

    With the FP return time, we speculated based on what we thought would happen, and based on a FACT (return time enforcement)

    Now we speculate based on what we think will happen, based on something we only had rumors about.

    Don't you think we're all jumping the gun ?
     

    BridgetBordeaux

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jun 27, 2008
    There certainly are several periods of time in a year that the crowds are somewhat low and the parks are not overly crowded................and that does allow for short lines.

    However....................many people take trips when schools are out and that means that many holiday breaks and summertime visits involve large crowds and long lines by early afternoon.

    It is during the high crowd days that a limit of 3 FP+ "tickets" would really put a damper on our enjoyment.

    We are AP holders and visit the parks during both high and low seasons. If the pain threshold gets to high, we would probably reduce the number of trips per year and that would mean less revenue for Disney. That is not the kind of reaction that Disney want to hear from it's customers.

    Maybe during the present "test and tweak" phase they will figure out that 3 is not enough. I also realize that both systems may exist side by side during a phase in period. When the only system left standing is FP+, I hope that the new FP+ system meets the needs of those who are experienced at touring the parks...............as well as the needs of the newbies.
     

    seashoreCM

    All around nice guy.
    Joined
    Aug 25, 2001
    (copied from another forum)
    Perfect solution to integrate Fastpass Plus with the older fastpass system.

    Use the 2 hour delay already in the old fastpass system. For example if you reserved two of the three allowed FP+ slots, then there is a four hour delay (2 times 2 hours) after you enter the park and then you can use the older fastpass system normally.
     

    DisneyFive

    When is the 3:00 parade?
    Joined
    Jun 16, 2011
    back in 2012, when Disney announced that FP return times would be enforced, there was an uproar.
    Some (on DIS) began to say that Doomsday was upon us. That it was the end of any sensible touring plan. Some even said they would never go back to Disneyworld if they dared enforce FP return times

    Now it's been over one year. The parks have scored a record attendance and a very noticeable increase in the number of guests and profit figures.

    It wasn't Doomsday after all.

    Now here we go all over again. Fear, speculations, everyone gets so worked up that we forget that we don't even know what FP+ will be about, truly, when it's fully deployed.

    With the FP return time, we speculated based on what we thought would happen, and based on a FACT (return time enforcement)

    Now we speculate based on what we think will happen, based on something we only had rumors about.

    Don't you think we're all jumping the gun ?
    First, don't you think you are exaggerating a little? ;) Doomsday? :confused3End of any sensible touring plan? Sure, there were heated debates, lots and lots of them. :)

    Yes, many Disr’s were complaining because FP window enforcement has a real, measureable negative impact on their park touring plans and enjoyment. Now that it’s been rolled out, attendance figures and profit mean nothing to those that used to enjoy the lax FP window enforcement. It’s not like they are saying, “Well, looks like attendance and profit are up, so I guess I should love FP window enforcement!” It is currently putting a cramp in their old park experience and still don’t like it.

    With FP+, if we are limited to 3 per day, sure parks may still see even more guests and profit (the US economy has been on a steady rise for the last few years now), but that doesn’t mean that they are going to like it. It will be a negative impact regardless.

    I agree that we are all speculating, and that we need to wait and see what the real deal is, but it’s still fun to discuss the what if’s. :thumbsup2

    Dan
     

    Senator Tressel

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Sep 1, 2011
    If there was a situation where they actually did limit everyone to three per day, I don't see them being able to fill all the slots on preschedulers. And can you imagine the no show rate on those? Also keep in mind, those three per day are not all headliners. During offseason, only a handful of rides would fill up all of those slots.
     

    doconeill

    Fastpass Jedi Master
    DIS Lifetime Sponsor
    Joined
    Feb 11, 2007
    I am not sure I can buy into the assumption that the number of fast passes available will remain the same ratio as we see it today. We need to remember that even if only the resort guests can prebook 60 days out, Disney needs to be able to guarentee 3 fp for every single guest that goes through the turnstile if needed. Or maybe they will just have a threshold number like 80%. This will not be a problem for the MK, even at peak season, with the number of attractions that are now online. But you only have to look at the 'epcot' list and think regular season, and wonder how the heck they are going to manage that. I think there will be lots of tinkering with ratios, depending on which park and at what season.

    Looks like roll out may be very slow, so it wont be an impact for a while though.
    There's been a suspicion that they have already increased the number of regular FPs being issued to reflect what they will be doing with FP+. They can only increase so far without making the standby line completely useless. Depending on who you listen to, FP issue rates could have been as high as 80% or more already BEFORE any increase (but I've also heard less than 50%).

    And it's one thing to guarantee 3FP+ for every guest. It's another thing to say your choices are only IASW, CoP and PhilharMagic. If they increase FP+ issue rates even higher, there will still be some who can't get a FP+, and have no other choice to ride standby - and wait a long time.

    That said, I don't think the issue rates are going to go up from where they are now, at least for the short term.
     

    doconeill

    Fastpass Jedi Master
    DIS Lifetime Sponsor
    Joined
    Feb 11, 2007
    For the short term, until FP+ is fully implemented, I thought that was the plan. You could do both.

    Thinking about it though, they could easily exclude one versus the other. The existing FP machines don't use RFID technology. So once you get a RFID wristband or RFID card, there is no way for the current FP machines to work with with your park ticket (the 'ol Key to the World card). I'm very interested to see how this plays out, and I hope to hear a lot more before our next trip in Sept. I have no big issue with FP+, AS LONG AS IT ISN'T LIMITED TO 3!
    I don't think it was ever the plan to use both. The T&C basically said that once you were enabled for FP+, you wouldn't be able to use FP.

    What is a little different now is that they've been issuing RFID-enabled tickets on cards for a bit now, and those cards still have a magstripe such that they can still be used in the existing FP machines. But MagicBands won't have that capability.

    I would expect that as this rolls out, those with MagicBands will be forced into FP+, and those without - for a certain amount of time - will be able to opt-in to FP+ or remain with the old system, until they make the final cutover.
     

    DisneyFive

    When is the 3:00 parade?
    Joined
    Jun 16, 2011
    I don't think it was ever the plan to use both. The T&C basically said that once you were enabled for FP+, you wouldn't be able to use FP.

    What is a little different now is that they've been issuing RFID-enabled tickets on cards for a bit now, and those cards still have a magstripe such that they can still be used in the existing FP machines. But MagicBands won't have that capability.

    I would expect that as this rolls out, those with MagicBands will be forced into FP+, and those without - for a certain amount of time - will be able to opt-in to FP+ or remain with the old system, until they make the final cutover.
    Yeah, I think you are right. I guess we'll need to wait and see.

    Regarding your last paragraph, I totally plan to opt out of FP+ if both options are offered during our Sept trip, unless more FP+'s are offered in a day. I think 5 would be the magic number for us. 5 FP+ or more and we're in.
     

    seashoreCM

    All around nice guy.
    Joined
    Aug 25, 2001
    There's been a suspicion that they have already increased the number of regular FPs being issued to reflect what they will be doing with FP+.
    One thing we cannot forget, only so many (say, 18,000) people of any description (standby, regular fastpass, FP+) can ride Toy Story Mania on any given day from park open to ride shutdown at the end of the day. If some people ride it more than once then the number of different people who can ride it on a given day becomes less.
     

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