submersible missing near the Titanic

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Ok, it's Friday evening. I'm sampling a couple of local brown ales and reading through the thread, enjoying the direction it has taken. My nephew who lives in Ireland posted a Facebook picture comparing all the response to the Titan vs the response to the migrant ship in Greece. It was originally posted by a friend of his in France. It's not just here that people notice the different response.

One thing to keep in mind is proximity.

The Titanic incident occurred near the U.S.

The Greece incident occurred near Greece with those seeking immigration from multiple countries in that general region. I've also been reading that there's been heavy criticism towards the Greece government regarding their response and forthcoming on details. People there do not know what has happened to their loved ones and Greece failed to act in accordance to international maritime law (at least that is one of the charges).

But I would expect there to be differences in coverage though that doesn't translate to mean no coverage at all.

 

[Imzadi]

Are you also thinking like a PP that this was just some conspiracy theory? Much of stuff is done after careful consideration and time spent, not impulsive "welp that's it".

In many search situations unless they have absolute proof or too much time has passed for realistic proof of life they treat them like search and rescue not search and recovery. Even if they felt the oxygen had run out it's not that they would have immediately switched to a search and recovery operation, it would have been a bit more as it was merely an estimate of 96 hours or if they thought they heard a loud noise that could be the implosion to just throw up hands and stop. Ethically speaking I would find it hard pressed that any single person would actually want them to not treat it like a search and rescue, it's an odd criticism to have and makes me question what people would be like if they knew the person missing (speaking broadly). I don't want to find out what some of you would be like if you knew someone went off on a boating trip never to be seen again, or a hiking trip, or a hunting trip or swept away on a flash flood or trapped in a fire or any other situation where just about every person out there would hope the search and rescue would continue on and on and on until so and so was found, hopefully alive.

Yes, I've only watched a couple things on the coast guard. I think the US Coast Guard's attitude during search & rescues is to obtain a definitive Proof of Life/Proof of Death outcome. Where they try to do everything they can to find a person alive and in time, (Proof of Life,) or search until they find a body, (Proof of Death.)

They don't go in with the attitude and belief system of "What's the point? We just heard they are probably dead. We are wasting our time and resources." And they don't teach their sailors to have that kind of attitude when on a rescue operation. Can you imagine, some 19 year old hears there's been an implosion, and while he's scanning an area two times the size of Connecticut, he's thinking, "Why are we even bothering to do this?" Is he really going to have his eyes peeled to see a tiny white speck in the ocean? Or is he just going to give a cursory scan thinking whatever he sees is NOT going to be the Titan floating on the water? Will his eyes even register a tiny white speck with that thought process? Is he going to follow up if he spies a tiny white speck?

WHAT a person believes can determine an outcome. In life or death operations, what kind of attitude of rescue teams do you want looking for you and your loved ones?

I would like to think they work in a way in which they can look themselves in the face in the morning and also look face to face with the victims' families, knowing they did their best to find the victims alive or bring their deceased loved ones home so they can lay them to rest.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Ok, it's Friday evening. I'm sampling a couple of local brown ales and reading through the thread, enjoying the direction it has taken. My nephew who lives in Ireland posted a Facebook picture comparing all the response to the Titan vs the response to the migrant ship in Greece. It was originally posted by a friend of his in France. It's not just here that people notice the different response. Discussion is good

Having alcohol while reading this thread is the best idea I've heard all day, and....it's 5:00 pm here on Friday. I'll be right back!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Then I'd like to offer my personal apology. I agree *partially* with the PP. Would you feel better if I go back and edit my response?

If you feel like it's necessary go for it, but no it doesn't actually matter to me one way or another, was more trying to understand the conflicting comments. I appreciate the clarification.

 

[DLgal]

Yes, I've only watched a couple things on the coast guard. I think the US Coast Guard's attitude during search & rescues is to obtain a definitive Proof of Life/Proof of Death outcome. Where they try to do everything they can to find a person alive and in time, (Proof of Life,) or search until they find a body, (Proof of Death.)

They don't go in with the attitude and belief system of "What's the point? We just heard they are probably dead. We are wasting our time and resources." And they don't teach their sailors to have that kind of attitude when on a rescue operation. Can you imagine, some 19 year old hears there's been an implosion, and while he's scanning an area two times the size of Connecticut, he's thinking, "Why are we even bothering to do this?" Is he really going to have his eyes peeled to see a tiny white speck in the ocean? Or is he just going to give a cursory scan thinking whatever he sees is NOT going to be the Titan floating on the water? Will his eyes even register a tiny white speck with that thought process? Is he going to follow up if he spies a tiny white speck?

WHAT a person believes can determine an outcome. In life or death operations, what kind of attitude of rescue teams do you want looking for you and your loved ones?

I would like to think they work in a way in which they can look themselves in the face in the morning and also look face to face with the victims' families, knowing they did their best to find the victims alive or bring their deceased loved ones home so they can lay them to rest.

This is a really endearing way to just say they did this whole search and rescue mission for training purposes, which is what it will ultimately be designated as when it is discussed internally in the future.

 

[mjkacmom]

Perhaps, but they should have reported it. And I sure do hope that they at least told the families. We've been following this story for a week, waiting for updates...etc. I feel like I could pilot that submersible at this point I'm so familiar with the systems....and it doesn't exactly look hard.

Also...we got reports of the safety systems....the ways they may have surfaced....the banging under water at 30 minute intervals. The size of the search grid....on and on. I just think that it would have been helpful for them to report to the public....us taxpayers who are largely funding this search and rescue.....that on Sunday at the time of the descent, when the sub lost comms with the ship, the US Navy heard a big...."kaboom". That's all....would have been nice to know.

Of course it wasn’t planned, but you can give as little or as much attention as you want to any story. Tragic things happen everyday that we never hear about. Big things happen that are intentionally not talked about. The Magic of the media.

Stories like this are always going to have a huge following, like the boys soccer team in caves or baby Jessica in the well. Remember balloon boy? Media is a business, they’re going to report on things the public is interested in to improve their rankings.

 

[gmi3804]

I totally agree not black and white but you quoted a poster who specifically said they didn't think it was a rich person thing and said you agreed with them and then had to make sure you added in about the billionaires (which by your previous comments we knew that's why you felt was most worthy for news coverage). So no you didn't really agree with them

Then I'd like to offer my personal apology. I agree *partially* with the PP. Would you feel better if I go back and edit my response?

Girls! Girls! You're both pretty!

 

[mjkacmom]

I read today that the vessel probably imploded very quickly so the "clock is ticking" coverage was all for naught. It definitely caused a ton of news coverage.

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Girls! Girls! You're both pretty!

Ha...this legit made me laugh.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Oh man ...why do I sense this thread about to implode.

Too soon?

Yeah. It's too soon.

 

[sasywtch]

I'm not looking to get into a tax dollars argument. All that I'm saying is that it's a huge piece of information that was withheld....for seemingly no reason at all. That's all.

Because it's how they got that information. A retired navy person was on the news and he was surprised they were giving military secrets out.

 

[DeeBee3]

I'm going to add more to the conspiracy mix - I was googling and this article popped up from 2008!

Search For Titanic Really Was Cover-Up Mission​

https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/AroundTheWorld/story?id=4978391

 

[sam_gordon]

Because it's how they got that information. A retired navy person was on the news and he was surprised they were giving military secrets out.

What military secrets though? It's not a secret that there's sonobuoys (?) on the ocean floor. Saying "we heard what sounded like an implosion" gives away exactly what?

 

[dvcgirl67]

What military secrets though? It's not a secret that there's sonobuoys (?) on the ocean floor. Saying "we heard what sounded like an implosion" gives away exactly what?

It gives away nothing. It's not a secret that those devices are out there.....even that multiple nations have them. Scientific groups have them too.

And the "anomaly" that the Navy picked up wasn't kept quiet as people within the "submersible community" heard about it long before the public did. I suspect that that someone in that group then leaked the information to the press after the debris field was found and when a request was made by the press for a statement, the Navy confirmed it.

 

[sam_gordon]

It gives away nothing. It's not a secret that those devices are out there.....even that multiple nations have them. Scientific groups have them too.

And the "anomaly" that the Navy picked up wasn't kept quiet as people within the "submersible community" heard about it long before the public did. I suspect that that someone in that group then leaked the information to the press after the debris field was found and when a request was made by the press for a statement, the Navy confirmed it.

I don't know why they didn't tell the public about it, but I don't know that I agree they should have. Maybe someone was thinking "if the public knows, they'll give up hope" and they weren't positive it was an implosion.

It's the people making the excuse of "they didn't want to give up secrets" that I don't get.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I don't know why they didn't tell the public about it, but I don't know that I agree they should have. Maybe someone was thinking "if the public knows, they'll give up hope" and they weren't positive it was an implosion.

It's the people making the excuse of "they didn't want to give up secrets" that I don't get.

I suppose that could be true. The submersible story has finally fallen off of the page of top stories. Seems Mr. Putin has some troubles from within his ranks. Turns out ruthless mercenaries like to do their own thing.

 

[Chili327]

I agree *partially* with the PP.

I just want to know, what is “the PP” ??

 

[mumto3girls]

I just want to know, what is “the PP” ??

I think it means previous post or previous poster.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I think it means previous post or previous poster.

Yes.

 

[John VN]

Yes.

AND with that reply, why not end the discussion/thread.