Still no duck?

[bicker]

Since I don't want to eat at either McDonald's or Chili's when at WDW, the difference is lost on me.

There is no question that some guests would be better off if there was no Dining Plan. However, it does seem like a great number of guests are better of with the Dining Plan.

Further, I don't consider substituting flank steak for the filet mignon to be a "minor" menu change.

It actually makes that menu more authentic. Flank steak is a far more common ingredient in France for a restaurant like Chefs de France than filet mignon. Regardless, I do consider it a minor menu change, so Disney is faced with two customers who disagree on that account.

When I go to a World Showcase restaurant, I want to eat fairly high quality food that is fairly authentic in terms of the country it purports to be from.

If I want fine dining, I'll focus on a restaurant that is in business to provide fine dining, rather than a restaurant that is themed and intends to present a glimpse of regional cuisine in a theme park environment. It's really a difference of expectations, and (again) this issue will always boil down to how many folks expect X versus how many folks expect Y, and more importantly, what is the overall economic impact of both groups having their expectations met versus unmet.

I don't care so much about TS restaurants at the other theme parks. But, WS purports to be about other countries.

Yes, but not about fine dining. As a matter of fact, that's so much so the case in France that they have a specific, fine dining restaurant in France: Bistro de Paris. It wouldn't make sense to have two fine dining restaurants, IMHO. It seems to me that, given that they have two restaurants, they should have one fine dining restaurant, and one casual, full-service restaurant. That's what they've got.

The very point of WS, in my opinion, is to find items in the stores you wouldn't see in your local Wal-Mart and to find and eat items in the restaurants that you wouldn't ordinarily find in your local Chili's.

My local Chili's doesn't serve escargots. It doesn't serve salads as great as the ones at Chefs de France. Etc.

If people complain that it's wierd or off-beat, then they should confine themselves to places that purport to serve chain restaurant American food (or to turkey legs!).

However, if large numbers of guests have simpler tastes, and smaller budgets, then it really behooves Disney to provide a proportionate amount of restaurants that serve their tastes, and their budgets, doesn't it?

 

[ElizabethB]

If the flank steak I had two weeks ago at Chefs de France is a typical French dish, I don't know how the French became known worldwide for their cuisine. It made bangers and mash look good.

 

[CPM]

If the flank steak I had two weeks ago at Chefs de France is a typical French dish, I don't know how the French became known worldwide for their cuisine. It made bangers and mash look good.

So is Filet Mignon!
The term "filet mignon" is a French derivative, the literal meaning is small (mignon) bone-less meat (filet). Cut from the small end of the beef tenderloin.

 

[keishashadow]

once again bicker nailed it

would think it's prudent to assume that the majority of guests don't expect theme parks (of which epcot is one) = fine dining experience

imo, mythos was a surprising exception to the rule.

btw, nothing wrong with simple, well-prepared food; lots of that @ WDW TS.

 

[ElizabethB]

Well, let's all keep our expectations low. That way we won't be disappointed, eh?

 

[CPM]

I don't mind non-fine dining as much *inside* the parks as much as I do outside the parks. The resort dining could at least stay the way it was. There are plenty of casual alternatives.

 

[bicker]

Well, let's all keep our expectations low. That way we won't be disappointed, eh?

We should keep our expectations in line with the reality -- what is reasonable and customary -- so we're not disappointed. Harboring unfounded expectations, and fostering such expectations in others, doesn't enhance anyone's vacation experience.

 

[Disney Planner Mama]

We should keep our expectations in line with the reality -- what is reasonable and customary -- so we're not disappointed. Harboring unfounded expectations, and fostering such expectations in others, doesn't enhance anyone's vacation experience.

I do see Bicker's point -- apparently the majority of would rather have the DP than more exotic food.

But we don't go to WDW for the reasonable and customary.

We go because it is extraordinary, and because we can have experiences that are not everyday experiences -- wonderful atmosphere, great CM's, a magical experience for the kids, an easy time for the parents because the kids are enchanted, experiencing different countries, and the CM's from different countries, without the hassle of travelling abroad with small children. It was nice being able to experience food that was something you wouldn't ordinarily have, more exotic, different meat, different flavor, greater variety, something that would be more like you would have if you were out of the US actually in whichever WS country the restaurant was in.

And while realizing that WDW does need to make a profit, I'm just hoping they don't lose sight of this.

Have a cheeseburger available at Chefs de France. But have the duck too.

 

[bicker]

But we don't go to WDW for the reasonable and customary.

If you're expecting every aspect of WDW to be extraordinary, then expect to be disappointed.... really, I would recommend, if a family member held such an expectation, that they simply never go to WDW. Hold and protecting the dream in their head would be more important than having them experience the reality, at that point.

WDW is extraordinary, but the toilet paper isn't any better than the toilet paper we have here at home. The asphalt isn't any better. The clarity of the telephones isn't any better. The seats in the theaters aren't more comfortable than the chair I sit in to watch television. Not every aspect of WDW is the best it could possibly be, and that's a good thing because if it was, the vast majority of us couldn't afford to go there.

What makes WDW extraordinary is how it brings our fairy tales to life. The advanced audioanimatronics, which is better than our Aibos. The creativity that has been turned to the creation of beautiful spaces, ingenious attractions, and wonderfully fun rides. The dining in the World Showcase is extraordinary because you can get a taste of any number of different world cuisines, without having to deal with the hassle of a big city like New York or Atlanta. You can buy little trinkets from any number of countries, where every store is in a wonderful diorama showcasing the traditional architectural motifs of that country, and have your purchases delivered to your hotel.

I still think folks are missing the point of these changes. There are still nation-specific choices available. You can still, "experience food that was something you wouldn't ordinarily have." French people don't just eat duck all day every day. Yes, and they even eat hamburger, but that's not even the point of the hamburger: It's there because some guests want it there. I think it would be selfish to begrudge guests with simpler tastes the ability to eat something they want to eat, while dining with their family at this restaurant.

 

[Disney Planner Mama]

If you're expecting every aspect of WDW to be extraordinary, then expect to be disappointed.... really, I would recommend, if a family member held such an expectation, that they simply never go to WDW. Hold and protecting the dream in their head would be more important than having them experience the reality, at that point.

I don't expect every aspect to be extraordinary. Certainly not the toilet paper and the asphalt. But for us dining, as well as the resort, as well as the parks themselves are important aspects. Just as we stay onsite because of the extraordinary hotels, I'd like to be able to have an extraordinary experience when dining. And I think there will still be plenty of restaurants in the WDW where I will be able to. But it now seems as if it will be the "signature" dining establishments. It was fun when it was places like Chefs de France and Spoodles.

And I certainly don't "begrudge" people their cheeseburger. As I said in my previous post have the cheeseburger just have the option of the duck as well.

 

[DVC Sadie]

probably gone because of the DDP. All the good stuff is gone now
Personally I think they should just have a separate menu for the DDP.

ITA!

I miss all of the offerings we use to get before the DDP was implemented. The food choices are becoming limited and very generic IMO.

 

[DVC Sadie]

Since I don't want to eat at either McDonald's or Chili's when at WDW, the difference is lost on me. Further, I don't consider substituting flank steak for the filet mignon to be a "minor" menu change.

When I go to a World Showcase restaurant, I want to eat fairly high quality food that is fairly authentic in terms of the country it purports to be from.

I don't care so much about TS restaurants at the other theme parks. But, WS purports to be about other countries. I do not go to Epcot to get streamlined, chain restaurant American food. The very point of WS, in my opinion, is to find items in the stores you wouldn't see in your local Wal-Mart and to find and eat items in the restaurants that you wouldn't ordinarily find in your local Chili's. If people complain that it's wierd or off-beat, then they should confine themselves to places that purport to serve chain restaurant American food (or to turkey legs!).

Once WDW removes the unique aspect from Epcot restaurants and stores, I'm not sure what's left other than a couple of mildly amusing rides in Future World. Once you've seen the 25-year-old films of the countries, WS is pretty ho hum without shopping and eating. Certainly not worth a $65 admission fee, IMO.

Thanks for a great post!

When WDW advertises as a Top Destination and World Class Dining we come to expect just that and not a Chili's or Applebee's.

Unless WDW is willing to do something about their lack of offerings and severe menu changes due to the DPP we will be dining more at other places which have the type of food we enjoy, and those places will be offsite.

 

[BCV23]

Well, I had the duck in April/May and would never order it again. Just not very good IMO and I love duck.

At that point, the DDP had been around for 16 months. I think it is ludicrous to blame the DDP for the absence of an entree at this point. It may be a seasonal change or a new chef or ..... But every time a menu changes now, the DDP is the scapegoat in the minds of many on the DIS. Menus change constantly at WDW and have for some years now.

 

[bicker]

And I think there will still be plenty of restaurants in the WDW where I will be able to. But it now seems as if it will be the "signature" dining establishments.

Absolutely, and that makes sense -- fine restaurants in proportion to the number of guests who want fine dining.

As I said in my previous post have the cheeseburger just have the option of the duck as well.

But again, French people don't always eat duck. The hamburger didn't replace the duck. The pork replaced the duck. My wife doesn't like duck, but she loves pork. Please don't begrudge her this menu change which was in her best interest.

When WDW advertises as a Top Destination and World Class Dining we come to expect just that and not a Chili's or Applebee's.

As Mama points out, WDW still is a top destination for world-class dining: The signature restaurants are excellent! And Bistro de Paris is among the best of the best. For folks who want something better, that option is available to them. What Disney has done is made their offerings more in line with what their guests want. Just read the Dining Plan forum. People are gushing over the plan. People love the fact that they can have nice sit-down meals now, something which they couldn't afford before. It's a win-win, since now there is something, truly, for everyone.

bicker obviously doesn't subscribe to the tenents or standards Walt believed in but rather believes in worshiping the bottom line, profitibility mode of the typical corporate god (that the Disney of today has become).

That's idiocy, and abusively insulting. You owe me, and the rest of the thread, an apology for taking a very constructive, amicable discussion and destroying it for your own selfish ends.

I find it sad that anyone would have to dumb down their expectations for WDW.

"Dumb down" is an emotionalized overstatement. It is also abusively insulting to the vast number of guests who actually appreciate the fact that they can now enjoy sit-down dining experiences at WDW. You owe them an apology as well.

Finally bicker you think it wrong to begrudge guests with simpler tastes the opportunity to experience offerings they'd be more comfortable with but it apparantely is OK to begrudge those who'd prefer more authenticity and quality from the experience.

You are wrong. As Mama pointed out, the finer dining experience can still be had, in an amount commensurate with the number of guests who want and can afford them. Perspective and reality better contribute to satisfaction than unreasonable expectation.

 

[Lewisc]

The resorts are certainly well themed and well run but I'm not sure I'd call them extraordinary. Mobil only gives the deluxe hotels 3 stars.

Even with the duck Chefs de France wasn't "extraordinary". I'm one of the (few) people who would like a signature menu option that requires an upcharge for something like lobster. The fear is the strip steak will vanish from the menu and the choice will be a burger, included, or a filet with an upcharge.

I don't expect every aspect to be extraordinary. Certainly not the toilet paper and the asphalt. But for us dining, as well as the resort, as well as the parks themselves are important aspects. Just as we stay onsite because of the extraordinary hotels, I'd like to be able to have an extraordinary experience when dining. And I think there will still be plenty of restaurants in the WDW where I will be able to. But it now seems as if it will be the "signature" dining establishments. It was fun when it was places like Chefs de France and Spoodles.

And I certainly don't "begrudge" people their cheeseburger. As I said in my previous post have the cheeseburger just have the option of the duck as well.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

idiocy and insulting? How so bicker. In EVERY thread here and on the rumors board you defend the corporate way and the decisions of the 'more knowledgable' Disney management and deride opinions of those (many who have inside knowledge) with opposing views making your opinion sound like fact. Apology indeed.

Nice spin on "dumb down" bicker. What would you call a menu purposly made simpler (the loss of creative and more expensive items) so that a very specific group of people (those on the DDP) will be (generally) happier with it? Spin, spin, sopin.

Lastly how do you know it is "commensurate"...What statistics do you have to prove the reason for this ludicrous and demeaning statement? You have none other than the general opinion here on the DIS (big surprise here) and the fact that the oh so knowledgeable Disney management has deemed it so.

To those who revere Walt and love what "Disney" stands for. To those who do hold Disney to a higher standard. To those who expect Disney to try to be the best they can be at all times (not just as profitable as they can be) you owe a huge apology.

 

[gina2000]

The problem for me is that I'm eating Applebee's type food at WDW type pricing. I don't eat Applebee's type food at home and I have no intention of eating it at WDW. I don't do the dining plan because I stay at a non-WDW resort. Neither do those who stay offsite and make up a fairly substantial part of the visiting population. The DDP compells me to do one of two things....either stay at a WDW resort or eat offsite.

Right now we're leaning heavily towards the latter idea.

 

[snowbunny]

The very point of WS, in my opinion, is to find items in the stores you wouldn't see in your local Wal-Mart and to find and eat items in the restaurants that you wouldn't ordinarily find in your local Chili's. If people complain that it's wierd or off-beat, then they should confine themselves to places that purport to serve chain restaurant American food (or to turkey legs!).

Once WDW removes the unique aspect from Epcot restaurants and stores, I'm not sure what's left other than a couple of mildly amusing rides in Future World. Once you've seen the 25-year-old films of the countries, WS is pretty ho hum without shopping and eating. Certainly not worth a $65 admission fee, IMO.

I agree completely. Obviously for anyone who has traveled outside the U.S., World Showcase is already a homogenized experience. But the seemingly continual push down to the lowest common denominator is becoming ridiculous. Why shouldn't Chefs provide a semi-authentic brasserie (not bistro) experience? There are plenty of places in the parks to get good simple chain-type food already.

I'm not talking about duck here, I'm referring to the peculiarly American attitude that 'elitists' and 'intellectuals' should kowtow to 'simple' tastes and mores at every turn. Walt Disney wanted his parks to be different than others and yes extraordinary -- they used to be, much more so than they are in the year 2006.

 

[Lewisc]

Walt isn't a god. I suspect he'd approve of the dining changes. It allows more families to eat more of their meals on site. Sounds like what he wanted WDW to be. I think menus should offer one or two asterisked menu items with an upcharge. Do you really think that's the kind of policy Walt would approve of?

People who want a more unique dining experience still have V&A and the signature restaurants which have had very few changes.

Many of the WS restaurants, including Chefs, were empty much of the year.

Coral Reef had a dramatic change in the menu. It went from a signature restaurant to a restaurant more guests are able to enjoy.

A better case can be made for attacking the changes at CRT. The price went up, to both dining and non dining guests, but the food went down. Disney justified the changes with free photos.

To those who revere Walt and love what "Disney" stands for. To those who do hold Disney to a higher standard. To those who expect Disney to try to be the best they can be at all times (not just as profitable as they can be) you owe a huge apology.

 

[DiszyDeanette]

That's idiocy, and abusively insulting. You owe me, and the rest of the thread, an apology for taking a very constructive, amicable discussion and destroying it for your own selfish ends.

"Dumb down" is an emotionalized overstatement. It is also abusively insulting to the vast number of guests who actually appreciate the fact that they can now enjoy sit-down dining experiences at WDW. You owe them an apology as well.

C'mon now! You're calling people selfish, simply because they don't like the plebs infiltrating their sacred restaurants?? Just because they complain about not having their exclusive "only I can afford it, because I'm better than you" clubs anymore? Are people really selfish when they post that other people actually being in the restaurants seriously bothers them?!?