Stem Cell research and Fertility Clinics.

[AllyandJack]

Sorry to be defensive, but it gets old when people think I am "diseased" when I am not.

I apologize. I don't think people who have a disease are "diseased", but I'm sorry if I offended you.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

I apologize. I don't think people who have a disease are "diseased", but I'm sorry if I offended you.

You didn't offend me. It's just the mentality of paralysis being a disease that honks me I wasn't offended, just correcting

 

[AllyandJack]

My clinic gave me 3 options...in my contract state (RI), it's not legal to donate to research just yet, but it's a choice. I have 5 frozen and plan to go back for them when I'm done with my current treatment. They won't all survive the thaw process, but if it results in 5 children (not all at once!, we never transfer that many), then I'll have 5 children. Great. I could also donate them to another couple or destroy them. I have 3 years to decide. If I am physically unable to have children in 3 years, I'll donate them to a couple. Part of me is uncomfortable with this because of the way laws are changing - sperm donors being made known, etc. But, if I have 5 kids knocking on my door wanting to meet me in 18 years, that's something I'll have to deal with because I made the choices I did.

I think a lot of people just can't afford to keep them frozen. My hospital includes 3 years of freezing, but after that, it's $750./year. I'm willing to pay for it until I've attempted to transfer them all. Some people can't afford it and, if their state doesn't offer stem cell research options, or if they're not comfortable with donating, they just let them get destroyed. Some people are more comfortable with one option than the other and, if one option isn't presented, they get destroyed because people can't afford to keep them frozen while they wait.

I'm wondering why they aren't able to transfer them to a state where stem cell research is an option - such as CA. It's probably expensive, but labs might be willing to pay the fees for transfer for the chance at research.

 

[goofygirl]

Not sure this will be helpful, but the policy regarding stem cell research is not that it is or should be illegal (it isn't) but that the federal government will not pay for it. It has long been an established policy that the federal government will not pay for abortions. On that point at least there seems to be consistancy.

As you yeartolate's question about clinics, in our state there are numerious freestanding women's clinics that may "offer" prenatal care but really only do abortions. Some will also give adoption referals. Planned parenthood clinics for example primarily refer for abortions and dispense contraception, right? They may "offer" prenatal care but I'd be really surprised if they every really are asked to give it.

You paint Planned Parenthood as a place that encourages abortion and does not give a damn about prenatal care. That couldn't be further from the truth.

On the opposite end, "Pro-life" groups have established "women centers" all over the USA. They don't say that they are pro-life facilities on the door or anywhere obvious. They lure unsuspecting pregnant women in there who think its just a OBGYN clinic like anywhere else. Once inside, there's anti-choice literature everywhere and an ultrasound machine. They do an ultrasound on the women and make the women look at the fetus and try to push them into not having an abortion. Its deceitful and scary. To top it off, these places have gotten federal funding as part of Bush's "faith based intiatives"!

 

[Galahad]

You paint Planned Parenthood as a place that encourages abortion and does not give a damn about prenatal care. That couldn't be further from the truth.

On the opposite end, "Pro-life" groups have established "women centers" all over the USA. They don't say that they are pro-life facilities on the door or anywhere obvious. They lure unsuspecting pregnant women in there who think its just a OBGYN clinic like anywhere else. Once inside, there's anti-choice literature everywhere and an ultrasound machine. They do an ultrasound on the women and make the women look at the fetus and try to push them into not having an abortion. Its deceitful and scary. To top it off, these places have gotten federal funding as part of Bush's "faith based intiatives"!

1) Read my subsequent post.
2) I did not say they encouraged anything, but in practice people do not go to planned parenthood for prenatal care. Planned parenthood may provide some initial screening but they will refer the patient out to other OBs. They will not follow a pregnancy.
3) Your second paragraph seems to want to paint a picture of its own that might indeed be an exaggeration.

 

[StephSparrow]

Not necessarily. I am a paraplegic and I do not support embyonic stem cell research.

Well to each their own.

The problem with this issue is that at this stage It gets deeply personal to different people. Religious issues come into matter, as well as the value of a human life.

Im not gonna state my opinion on that. As i dont want to be flamed.

Any advancement in technology that helps us live longer should be embraced imo.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

Well to each their own.

The problem with this issue is that at this stage It gets deeply personal to different people. Religious issues come into matter, as well as the value of a human life.

Im not gonna state my opinion on that. As i dont want to be flamed.

Any advancement in technology that helps us live longer should be embraced imo.

Which is why I said "not necessarily." I wasn't flaming you.

 

[seven dwarfs]

I am new here and want to be carefull not to flamed so with that said: I have five children from embryo's. When we started this process it was recommended to get therapy. I laughed but soon realized why. It is very easy to think things about embryo's when you are not the parent of one. When you are the proud Mommy of an embryo it is not as easy as you may think. It is very difficult to use, donate or destroy and embryo as when you look at my beautiful children you see what an embryo is. Also when does it stop. Say we start doing the stem cell research and say an embryo is trash basicly then when does it stop. Does this issue keep going with people testing the embryo to get a girl or boy? And rid of the extras? It is a hard topic to make since of and it is life or death.

My Dr informed us of all options upfront. They do not promote destroying and do promote donating to others in need. I do realize not all Drs are like this.

There is lots of studies that can be done with stem cell research that does not envolve the embryos. On the flip side people do distroy them everyday. If we allow them to be distoyed anyway then....

I am open to listening to anyones views on this as a proud embryo owner it is a very difficult subject for anyone to speak on.

In case you can not tell I do not believe in using the embryos for cell research. I also do not believe in the distruction of them ethier.

Infairness to some of these places who force people to look at the ultrasound, It is a major choice and some people regret making it. Someone who is three months prego needs to realize that their is a baby and it has a heart and their are other options. I do not believe in shoving this down someones throat but education is lacking.

I also have family members who could benefit form stem cell research. Matter of fact I lost a son who could have benefited from it but the thought of not having one of my other children in trade makes it all the more hard.

Thanks for listening. Do not want to cause a fight. Just another side to the issue at hand. I enjoy reading others thoughts also even if you do not agree with me. I feel that if more people listen to each other and try to understand other sides then the world would be a better place.

 

[FlyingBelle]

My understanding is the issue is more about creating embryos for the sole purpose of using/destroying them for research. IMO, I do not think this is appropriate, moral, or good for the donors.

I also think I heard something on the news today that they're finding that adult stem cells provide better "material" (sorry, can't think of a better word) for actually helping those who need it.

I too concieved at a fertility clinic, however we did not have to do IVF. In fact, the clinics I attend do not handle the embryos themselves - they use an outside facility. Also, fertility clinics address multiple fertility issues - not just jumping to the most invasive measures - so why add additional stress to potential moms by protesting them.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I'm not arguing with you yeartolate, but this is an issue which is close to my heart so if it's going to be discussed it I'd like to see that it's done accurately. These are my opinions and experiences.

most of the people I know who have undergone IVF have had to clearly sign papers about what their options were.

In my case, we were not contractually held to our original choices. We still were required later on to make decisons about what we wanted to do with the extra embryos. That, to me, is a good thing. When you begin the IVF process it would be difficult to see into the future and know exactly what you want to do years later, not knowing the cirucumstances of your individual experiences to come. Clinics must recognize this, because six years after our embryos were originally frozen, we felt differently than we did at the outset, and also learned there were other options available to us that weren't listed (or even available originally).

Most (that I know) have made an active decision NOT to have others adopt their frozen embryos. It was more than disconcerting to them to have full sisters and brothers running around. I totally support a family's willingness to adopt out their embryos, but I can understand the conflict.

I understand the conflict, too. I regularly talk to couples all over the country who are thinking about it, and have been interviewed by major publications about this issue. It isn't easy, and obviously not for everyone. But IMO it's less that people "don't want brothers and sisters running around" (which sounds slightly offensive and uninformed, BTW) than it is that they aren't even aware embryo adoption is an option. Most of the women I talk to would like to give their embryos a chance to be born, but definitely are conflicted about it, in part because the options are unclear, but also because they have trouble with the thought of another family raising "their" child. These are the realities based on what I have seen.

My own clinic only offered three options: destroy, donate to (stem cell) research, or anonymous adoption, the latter of which was not something I was interested in either (ours was private, but again, I found that option on my own, not through our clinic).

This is not directed at anyone, but I believe that until you have embryos that are your own, I don't think you can say with any degree of certainty what you'd do or feel under the same circumstances. That was the case for me as well.

If a clinic is not educating the woman with leftover embryos on their disposition, I think they are falling short of thier duty.

I agree, that was my point.

Most women that I know that have gone through IVF have totally educated themselves prior to commitment . They seemed aware of the issues if they had a sucessful pregnancy on the first cycle.

I don't know how many couples you know, but I've met dozens in the 11 years I've been immersed in the world of IVF, and my experience is just the opposite. In fact, there is very little, if any, education or support. And my clinic was one of the better ones. Hopefully, that may have changed for the better in the past few years.

I've also had discussions about stem cell research (which I am for, on embryos dedicated to research) with many people and a good number of them readily admit they don't know exactly what the issues are and/or can't hold an intelligent discussion about it.

 

[NewJersey]

Here is another example of our President's ignorance and incompetence. Oops, have I said too much?

 

[noodleknitter]

I think the issue is that people, in general, are kind and compassionate.

I believe that life begins at conception. But I have also seen so many unwanted children or women dealing with unplanned/wanted pregnancies. I am against clinics dehumanizing babies and 2nd term pregnancies. I have, on the other hand, taken a friend for an early abortion. Few would want to see a rape victim deal with a pregnancy because of compassion. Just like few would want women to abort at 34 weeks also due to compassion.

Life is not always black and white. There is a ton of grey. Grey is where you get the inconsistencies. I wouldn't want to be black and white about life.

 

[JudicialTyranny]

Here is another example of our President's ignorance and incompetence. Oops, have I said too much?

Typical liberal attitude. Calling names, someone who doesn't agree with the liberal dogma is "ignorant". And this is from one of the "open mind" set?

I believe creating life for the sole purpose of destroying it is wrong. Embryonic stem cell research does that. If certain treatments at fertility clinics do that, then they are wrong also. But it's a sure thing with embryonic stem cell research.

And it is just research. Embryonic stem cells have not cured a darn thing yet as far as I know - correct me if I am wrong. Usage of adult stem cells is more promising.

 

[NewJersey]

Typical liberal attitude. Calling names, someone who doesn't agree with the liberal dogma is "ignorant". And this is from one of the "open mind" set?

I believe creating life for the sole purpose of destroying it is wrong. Embryonic stem cell research does that. If certain treatments at fertility clinics do that, then they are wrong also. But it's a sure thing with embryonic stem cell research.

And it is just research. Embryonic stem cells have not cured a darn thing yet as far as I know - correct me if I am wrong. Usage of adult stem cells is more promising.

Honestly, don't get me started on the "conservative" attitude.

That is your opinion. I have mine. I don't believe life begins at conception. I do believe using embroyonic stem cells and funding research for it, is very wise.

Why do I think the President is ignorant? Look at his track record.

Oh and boo hoo, poor President Bush and the scary liberals calling him ignorant and incompetent. Shall we revisit the Clinton years and dig up what was said about him from the Conservatives?

Ah, hypocrisy at its finest.

 

[Charade]

I can wait to see the flood of findings that come out as soon as some of the laws get changed.

Stem cell research funding is available from private donations and state governments. It's a FEDERAL ban on funding that is at issue. It's really interesting that some still believe that there is no stem cell research going on because there is no FEDERAL funding given.

 

[Galahad]

Stem cell research funding is available from private donations and state governments. It's a FEDERAL ban on funding that is at issue. It's really interesting that some still believe that there is no stem cell research going on because there is no FEDERAL funding given.

There is, in fact, more federally funded stem cell research going on now on existing lines, AND more $$ being spent on it than ever before. Sounds somewhat less that ignorant to me.

 

[Charade]

I don't believe life begins at conception. .

Well, according to some states, it does.

Also, how do you come to terms with California being able to charge a person(Scott Peterson) with two murders in which one of them is unborn?

But if Lacy went to get an abortion, it's not murder.

 

[seven dwarfs]

Just for me to know what you are thinking: When do you believe that embryo becomes a child then? We are speaking of a sperm and egg that has been fertilized correct? At what point is that a child then. Remember that embryo is put in my belly and is a child. I Currently have 5 embryos(not life) that have become children (life). I think it is easy to say that embryos are not life but sorry that is not a correct statement.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Why do I think the President is ignorant? Look at his track record.

Again, because you disagree with him, you call him ignorant. Because you disagree with his decisions (track record), you assume he is not informed.

 

[yeartolate]

Stem cell research funding is available from private donations and state governments. It's a FEDERAL ban on funding that is at issue. It's really interesting that some still believe that there is no stem cell research going on because there is no FEDERAL funding given.

In fact, California voters approved funding of the research. (as I recall it was with about 60% of the vote) BUT antiabortion groups funded attempts at stopping the research on a basis that it was unconstitutional. Rightfully they lost, but unfortunately it was a lot of wasted time and money that could have been better spent elsewhere.