State Orders Dr. John Muney to Stop Treating Patients for $79/month

[janey99]

But insurance companies aren't complaining, at least not yet. The government, in the 'person' of the State of New York, is.

Do you really think this medical professional is such a bad business person that he would overextend himself, or not have a backup plan in place?

And how do you account for, or treat, people who don't HAVE insurance?

Oh, and the physicians to whom daisax refers charge a LOT more than $79 per year membership fee.

Yes, I know it's the state - that's who Dinallo is. Right now, the state has the greater interest, as compared with insurance companies. The state needs to be watching out for the welfare of its citizens. Permitting people of unequal interests and bargaining to contract in the way this doctor wants to creates a huge potential for downside (see my other post). People would hold their local government responsible is someone got hurt, because they expect that medical care and insurance are things that are regulated by the state. Right now, I don't think this guy represents any threat to the relevant insurance companies, such that they'd be the ones screaming about his plan.

As for your second point, I think lots of people are plenty bad business people that they overextend themselves, don't have backup plans, underestimate how hard or how much of a committment something will be, or just plain old %&$# up when they set out into uncharted territory. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to be the patient who represents the unfortunate convergence of all of the above-mentioned things that can go wrong for this guy.

Jane

 

[Charade]

This is an interesting discussion. No one on my thread "how much would affordable health care cost" (IIRC) stated a number. Now this guy thinks $79 is "affordable" and his patients agree.

Can't.seem.to.win.

 

[themarquis]

It's hard to imagine how this could "save" people money.

Let's do the numbers. Take a healthy person. In a "bad year", they might have an office visit 4x per year. That's 400 dollars (say a normal office visit is 100 dollars). Then on top of that, maybe they need a little bit of bloodwork or something, say a couple hundred dollars more. That's 600 dollars.

Thru this dr's plan, they will have spent 79 * 12 plus 4*10 (for copays). That's 988 dollars. Certainly much higher than 600.

Take an unhealthy person, and they could easily rack up a ton of bills, but I assume this dr. doesn't take unhealthy people. No chronic health problems. He needs to have healthy folks who pop in and out of his practice occasionally in order for him to run it on that business model.

Now ... there's a bit more we need to think about. This doctor is not giving you something that could substitute for actual medical insurance in any way! Any specialist stuff or tests or scans that he doesn't have equipment for would have to be out of pocket. Any DME stuff, prescriptions, rehabilitation, etc. Not only that, but all hospitalization, surgery, anything like that would be out of pocket. Hospitalization as we should all know is THE biggest liability for people medically.

Most of us, even if we had chronic health problems, could probably afford to pay out of pocket for our BASIC primary care expenses (I have several medical conditions, and I could afford (even if barely) to do my 10x office visits plus 24x prescriptions per year). But most of us, even the wealthiest, can NOT afford other medical bills -- a simple er visit can run into the thousands and a two day hospitalization/surgery can run 10-20k. Of course, get run over by a truck or need brain surgery and forget it -- we might be talking about a couple million. Good luck with that!

So the point is that you're not going to merely pay your 1000 dollars per year and get this dr's service and actually be covered for real medical expenses, lol! So if you get his plan, you're either a moron (don't know about real, non-pcp medical expenses or think that somehow you're immune from having an accident or illness) or you're going to have to spring for some OTHER type of medical insurance. Say, a major medical high-deductable plan. This would work. Except that you're paying a buttload for your high deductable plan. Is it really worth it to pay for both or would it make more sense to go with, say, an HMO or PPO type plan that does both?

As a side note, one thing that some people do that makes sense and is financially a better thing than this particular doctor's plan is to combine a HSA with a high-deductible plan. Basically, you take whatever the deductible is (or significantly less if you're really healthy) and stick it in the HSA, then drain it over the year to pay for pcp-type services. Then when/if you hit the deductible, the insurance kicks in and you're covered.

 

[CPT Tripss]

This may be one smart internist. if you run the numbers at $2,000 per patient then

300 is $600,000
400 is $800,000
500 is $1,000,000

Maybe, just maybe if enough doctors do this we would not need UHC. Just think my health concerns would be between me and my doctor!!


300

This is an interesting discussion. No one on my thread "how much would affordable health care cost" (IIRC) stated a number. Now this guy thinks $79 is "affordable" and his patients agree.

Can't.seem.to.win.

I think both of you are missing something. These Dr.'s fees are for a limited set of procedures and tests. The total cost of your health care would be way beyond the $79/ month plus $10 for every extra visit.

The concierge practice cost of $2,000 per year is for an undefined set of services. You will certainly need specialist, and likely hospital, care if anything goes wrong and for certain recommended periodic screenings. I wouldn't want a general doc with only a few hundred patients doing my colonoscopy (you may think less of your ***). Also, these practices are smaller than family/general practices, where are all the docs?

 

[manning]

Here is a radio interview with the doctor.

http://amgmedicalgroup.com/press/WOR.wav

 

[manning]

I think both of you are missing something. These Dr.'s fees are for a limited set of procedures and tests. The total cost of your health care would be way beyond the $79/ month plus $10 for every extra visit.

The concierge practice cost of $2,000 per year is for an undefined set of services. You will certainly need specialist, and likely hospital, care if anything goes wrong and for certain recommended periodic screenings. I wouldn't want a general doc with only a few hundred patients doing my colonoscopy (you may think less of your ***). Also, these practices are smaller than family/general practices, where are all the docs?

I believe what we are talking about is internal medicine. It would be a big step forward if those uninsured could get the chance to see a doctor. This does open the door for them. The first step to a cure is the diagnosis.

I doubt any general doctor does colonoscopies. At least mine doesn't. It would come under specialist.

 

[Charade]

Beats going to the ER for a cold. I'm sure his plan is MUCH less costly.

 

[CPT Tripss]

I believe what we are talking about is internal medicine. It would be a big step forward if those uninsured could get the chance to see a doctor. This does open the door for them. The first step to a cure is the diagnosis.

I doubt any general doctor does colonoscopies. At least mine doesn't. It would come under specialist.

A diagnosis is certainly necessary, but then you have to pay the specialist (and perhaps the hospital) for the treatment.
Point well taken regarding the colonoscopy, but more than a few GPs do proctoscopy in their office . . . and that is not an effective screening.

Beats going to the ER for a cold. I'm sure his plan is MUCH less costly.

Considering Docs don't have a cold cure yet, .

 

[manning]

, but more than a few GPs do proctoscopy in their office . . . and that is an effective screening.

.

To a degree. Colon cancer can occur anywhere in the colon. I had it 15 years ago and it was located in the upper part. That would be if you look at your body on the right side next to the liver. A proctoscopy would never have found it as it only looks at the bottom third of the colon.

Not being an expert, I would venture that the majority of doctor visits made are for routine cases. It would be during these visits where the major conditions would be found. Getting early diagnosis will save many lives and reduce the cost of treatment.

 

[CPT Tripss]

To a degree. Colon cancer can occur anywhere in the colon. I had it 15 years ago and it was located in the upper part. That would be if you look at your body on the right side next to the liver. A proctoscopy would never have found it as it only looks at the bottom third of the colon.
Not being an expert, I would venture that the majority of doctor visits made are for routine cases. It would be during these visits where the major conditions would be found. Getting early diagnosis will save many lives and reduce the cost of treatment.

I was so wrong, thanks for the correction! I really did mean NOT a good screening. Since so many people come here for their medical advice, I'm pleased you corrected me.

 

[C.Ann]

Well at least he was trying to do something - which is more than people can say for how the uninsured or underinsured are handled..

Hopefully he can come up with a better way of working this "deal" so that his uninsured patients can continue to receive medical care..