State assistance is for WHO?

[Toby'sFriend]

I'm sorry C.Ann but I strongly disagree. As much as you might want to think my line of thought makes me a horribly mean person living in an Ivory tower, I have a reason for feeling as I do.

I work one Thursday night a month in our Church food bank. I work the last Thursday of every month - you know - the time period when everybody's Food Stamp allowance and Social Security checks for the month have been depleted and they are just trying to make it through until the next month when they can start over?

I can tell you that over a 3 hour period, I will see Senior Citizen after Senior Citizen work their way in, grateful to find some soup and crackers and a couple of jars of peanut butter that will give them a couple of meals to make it through the week. The experienced know to go to the shelves where the non-food items are kept FIRST. Finding toilet paper, toothpaste, dishwashing detergent, soap and all that stuff is a huge boon. Food Stamps don't pay for those and if you can find them on the shelves then you have a better shot at being able to use your cash to pay for your Medication.

Most of these people during the winter will ask for help finding blankets, extra scarves, socks -- not to wear outside but to keep themselves warm in the apartments they can no longer afford to heat.

And yes, most of the people who visit are Church services are long time Community members who worked and paid taxes for DECADES. They raised families, they went to Church, they donated to chariites. Now, they are just trying to hold onto their dignity.

Currently we live in a population that is growing older and older. More and more people can't work. Not -- don't want to work -- they can't work. They are too old and feeble. The average Social Security check per month is around $900. That is around $11,000 a year. Pensions that were promised are gone, employer Health Benefits that were promised are gone --

So, what is the answer? Because I tell you, that as a society we are not "assisting" all the people who have no physical means of assisting themselves. States are running out of money. The State of Illinois last year underfunded their State Employee Retirement plan by an astronomical amount just to get their budget balanced. Medicaid payments to Nursing Homes and Doctors from the state - they run MONTHS behind on paying the bill. When it comes to helping people out, it is just a cold hard reality that you have to make a choice on who you are going to help.

All I can say to anybody who thinks all our Welfare type assistance should be funding people who have decided for whatever reason not to work -- even if it is to return to school and eventually get a better job - well then you better be prepared for your taxes to go way up up up. Because that money has to come from somewhere.

 

[mudnuri]

I'm sorry C.Ann but I strongly disagree. As much as you might want to think my line of thought makes me a horribly mean person living in an Ivory tower, I have a reason for feeling as I do.

I work one Thursday night a month in our Church food bank. I work the last Thursday of every month - you know - the time period when everybody's Food Stamp allowance and Social Security checks for the month have been depleted and they are just trying to make it through until the next month when they can start over?

I can tell you that over a 3 hour period, I will see Senior Citizen after Senior Citizen work their way in, grateful to find some soup and crackers and a couple of jars of peanut butter that will give them a couple of meals to make it through the week. The experienced know to go to the shelves where the non-food items are kept FIRST. Finding toilet paper, toothpaste, dishwashing detergent, soap and all that stuff is a huge boon. Food Stamps don't pay for those and if you can find them on the shelves then you have a better shot at being able to use your cash to pay for your Medication.

Most of these people during the winter will ask for help finding blankets, extra scarves, socks -- not to wear outside but to keep themselves warm in the apartments they can no longer afford to heat.

And yes, most of the people who visit are Church services are long time Community members who worked and paid taxes for DECADES. They raised families, they went to Church, they donated to chariites. Now, they are just trying to hold onto their dignity.

Currently we live in a population that is growing older and older. More and more people can't work. Not -- don't want to work -- they can't work. They are too old and feeble. The average Social Security check per month is around $900. That is around $11,000 a year. Pensions that were promised are gone, employer Health Benefits that were promised are gone --

So, what is the answer? Because I tell you, that as a society we are not "assisting" all the people who have no physical means of assisting themselves. States are running out of money. The State of Illinois last year underfunded their State Employee Retirement plan by an astronomical amount just to get their budget balanced. Medicaid payments to Nursing Homes and Doctors from the state - they run MONTHS behind on paying the bill. When it comes to helping people out, it is just a cold hard reality that you have to make a choice on who you are going to help.

All I can say to anybody who thinks all our Welfare type assistance should be funding people who have decided for whatever reason not to work -- even if it is to return to school and eventually get a better job - well then you better be prepared for your taxes to go way up up up. Because that money has to come from somewhere.

Okay in a way, I can agree with you, but I can also play devils advocate and ask why these people did not invest for their retirement....My mom just got out of the hospital, with no insurance with a bill to the tune of $134K....yeah, hows that gonna get paid, now hopefully her issue will be resolved, as it was a HR issue at her former employer. She did plan for her retirement, but not a $143K hospital bill....I say retirement- when in reality she is disabled...prior to this hospital stay.

I have a disabled uncle who receives $10 in foodstamps a month- yes you read that correctly...he does not drive, and we do not have a grocery store..this $10 comes in a ebt card, that is not accepted for food stamps in our town...cant get them to change that $10 to his checking acct though....so I wait 3 months and go get him $30 in groceries- the rest of the time, my mom supplies him with 90% of food...again- he's on SSI disabilty.

I think part of the problem, is that there are so many people who receive benefits and are not trying to change, or better themselves. There are thousands of people like that in this state alone...heck I can name 50 that I know just in this town...they are capable of working, or attending school however they chose not too, and because they have the assistance they don't have to. See where the problem comes in.

I see this every day, My neighbor- has 2 kids...has a boyfriend- father of both kids...he works at a prison- (state job good money) not on the birth certificate, she has section 8 housing- pays full rent. Last yeat the state paid for her lpn school, this year, they're paying for her LPN/RN school....thats not what I'm asking for. I have already 6400 in student loans, I sold my Envoy, bought an economical car, received a pell grant, and am working on the weekends that the girls are at their fathers.....

I could have kept my job, been a temporary employee- with no benefits, and barely made it. I could get a job elsewhere...paid daycare, and more than likely NOT been a full time benefited position, and still not made ends meet. I chose not too, I chose to spend the next 2 years of my life stuffed in a classroom, working 24 hours in those 2 days every other week, with no extra money etc. I'm okay with this...I chose this......its the entire program that sucks..
It is my belief that if someone is honestly trying to get ahead, to better themselves, and their family, they should be given the opportunity to do so. If someone wants to sit on their butt all day while both of their kids are in school, and rob the system, well I dont think they should be able too....if I could fix all the problems in the system I would, but obviously I cant

Brandy

 

[GJM]

I really don't think she "intentionally" put herself in a postion where she couldn't support her family. You never know what will happen in life. I give her credit for trying to better herself.

I don't have a problem with people getting assistance when they need it. But it really annoys me when I'm at the food store and someone who is on food stamps is buying food that I don't even buy because it is too expensive, as they talk on their cell phone and drove away in their mercedes.

 

[Crankyshank]

In the case of the elderly, saving for retirement was unheard of - social security was supposed to take care of them along with their pensions. and to be honest, I doubt a lot of them expected to live this long. I know my 80yr old grandmother (receiving fuel assistance) often remarks that never in her dreams would she imagine $1400 a month was considered poor or that the cost of living would have increased so much since she retired. Welfare abusers make up such a tiny percentage of the people using fuel assistance.

I agree that the system sucks and needs to be re-tooled. I know I would love to quit my job or reduce my hours and go to school full time but I can't afford it. I'm a married middle class white woman. There's no educational assistance for me.
unfortunately the government isn't increasing the funding and people just don't seem to be making any noise or rattling any cages about it. I mean seriously we're giving my grandmother Stop & Shop gift cards for Christmas this year because that's the only way we can guarantee she's going to spend her money on food instead of prescriptions, weekly bingo, rent, and utilities.

If anything this is a great reason to write your elected officials and encourage them to do something about social programs. I don't mean the OP - I mean anyone reading this.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I agree that the system sucks and needs to be re-tooled. I know I would love to quit my job or reduce my hours and go to school full time but I can't afford it. I'm a married middle class white woman. There's no educational assistance for me.
unfortunately the government isn't increasing the funding and people just don't seem to be making any noise or rattling any cages about it. I mean seriously we're giving my grandmother Stop & Shop gift cards for Christmas this year because that's the only way we can guarantee she's going to spend her money on food instead of prescriptions, weekly bingo, rent, and utilities.

If anything this is a great reason to write your elected officials and encourage them to do something about social programs. I don't mean the OP - I mean anyone reading this.

I order my mother 100$ worth of Groceries from Stop and Shop every month.. She lives in subsidized housing and on social security..She had 3 kids before her husband left her for another woman and then never gave her a penny in child support...She worked and raised 4 kids herself on A secretarial salary.She worked well into her 60s . She has nothing to show for her work.She own nothing of valua and now get SS and money from us kids...There was no opportunity for her to save. Every penny went to surviving

 

[C.Ann]

I'm sorry C.Ann but I strongly disagree. As much as you might want to think my line of thought makes me a horribly mean person living in an Ivory tower, I have a reason for feeling as I do.

---------------------

I don't think you're a horribly mean person - I'll just go back to my reasoning that if these programs were set up to give people a "hand up" - rather than a "hand out" - they would be NOWHERE near as tapped out as they are..

The money that is wasted on the state and federal level is appalling - but where is the outrage over that? Where are the people screaming about how their taxes are being wasted on absolute nonsense?

Without a crystal ball, no one can be 100% certain of what their future holds and it's that lofty attitude that I find so disturbing..

There's an old saying -"Be careful of how you treat others on your way up the ladder because those are the same people you're going to meet on the way back down again.."

 

[Crankyshank]

I order my mother 100$ worth of Groceries from Stop and Shop every month.. She lives in subsidized housing and on social security..She had 3 kids before her husband left her for another woman and then never gave her a penny in child support...She worked and raised 4 kids herself on A secretarial salary.She worked well into her 60s . She has nothing to show for her work.She own nothing of valua and now get SS and money from us kids...There was no opportunity for her to save. Every penny went to surviving

She sounds like my Grandmother. She raised 5 kids pretty much on her own with a deadbeat husband who was a merchant marine and spent his time home drinking his $$ away at the VFW before he finally left her. She raised 5 kids on her Foxboro Co. salary. Fortunately for her she remarried in her 60's and is living off of a small pension of my step-Grandfather's and her own. Most of her inheritance from my step-Grandfather was stolen by my psycho Uncle
I can't afford to give her money for food but we all pretty much take turns cooking some lasagna and casseroles and stocking her freezer. She's too proud to accept charity.

 

[nativetxn]

I know this must be frustrating for you. I hope you can find the help that you need.

Katholyn

 

[Toby'sFriend]

I agree it is very frustrating. I played the how am I going to pay rent, tuition, and still eat next semester game for years. I went to school with many people who were doing the same thing...school and family isn't an odd combination in many colleges today. We worked alot of night shifts, we fit in studying when we could, and we learned how to survive on very little sleep.

But I honestly don't see the difference between you saying "well the elderly should have saved more for their own retirement and that lady next door living on section 8 housing should just go work"

and the judging that you claim people are doing to you.

But to answer your question, the concept of having to save resources for your retirement is a fairly new one in our society -- only a couple of generations old for most. Just as you didn't save money for whatever reason while you were still married and living with your husband, many people of our parent's generation also didn't save. They didn't have the money to save, they didn't think it was necessary to save, or they just had other priorities. Some people should have saved more, some had very good reasons for not doing so -- but right now they are all in pretty bad need of help.

There are still many people receiving various forms of aid that are not working and not motivated -- but that number isn't near what it used to be.

 

[mudnuri]

I agree it is very frustrating. I played the how am I going to pay rent, tuition, and still eat next semester game for years. I went to school with many people who were doing the same thing...school and family isn't an odd combination in many colleges today. We worked alot of night shifts, we fit in studying when we could, and we learned how to survive on very little sleep.

But I honestly don't see the difference between you saying "well the elderly should have saved more for their own retirement and that lady next door living on section 8 housing should just go work"

and the judging that you claim people are doing to you.

But to answer your question, the concept of having to save resources for your retirement is a fairly new one in our society -- only a couple of generations old for most. Just as you didn't save money for whatever reason while you were still married and living with your husband, many people of our parent's generation also didn't save. They didn't have the money to save, they didn't think it was necessary to save, or they just had other priorities. Some people should have saved more, some had very good reasons for not doing so -- but right now they are all in pretty bad need of help.

There are still many people receiving various forms of aid that are not working and not motivated -- but that number isn't near what it used to be.

I was playing devils advocate with you and the elderly...the lady next door- your damn right I say she should go to work- she has her LPN license...that the state paid for....

I have sympathy and empathy for the elderly, trust me on that one- but the people who continue to do nothing or work the system for YEARS, no I dont have any for them!

Brandy

 

[simpilotswife]

Okay in a way, I can agree with you, but I can also play devils advocate and ask why these people did not invest for their retirement....My mom just got out of the hospital, with no insurance with a bill to the tune of $134K....yeah, hows that gonna get paid, now hopefully her issue will be resolved, as it was a HR issue at her former employer. She did plan for her retirement, but not a $143K hospital bill....I say retirement- when in reality she is disabled...prior to this hospital stay.

There are many elderly people who did plan for their retirement just as you suggested only to find that the companies they worked for went belly up taking their pension and health insurance with them.

A few years ago my mother stopped receiving health insurance from LTV corp. LTV sold the steelmaking division so they didn't have to pay for it anymore. All the retired steelworkers were left high and dry. Luckily my mother was employed and so was able to transfer to her employer's health plan but the insurance was not as good and she had to pay into it. She was lucky. I know another family that was left high and dry. The wife has lupus and so now they had to find a way to come up with the money to pay for her medical expenses.

What I wanna know is if you know about all of this abuse why aren't you reporting it?

 

[DMRick]

Then in the grocery stores I would see people paying with their food stamps while they had on designer clothes and then I'd see them getting into brand new cars. I don't get it.:

Perhaps they have a parent dying of cancer, and the parent is of the old school and way too embarrassed to go in the store themselves. Perhaps the parent now qualifies for food stamps after all the medical co-pays have sapped their money. Perhaps they are even buying nothing but fattening foods, to try and put some weight on the parent, so other people in the line think they can make remarks about they just bought with food stamps (and they are tired of explaining, so they just listen to the hurtful remarks). Or even perhaps, the person using the food stamps, is now volunterring for hospice, and shopping for one of the people she is helping. You shouldn't judge what you see in line at the market.

 

[chrissyk]

Brandy, you should reapply for the fuel assistance if you have not done so already. I know that a lot of places were level-funded to begin with this year, but I think that that is supposed to change as those areas get farther into the cold weather season. I see nothing wrong with applying for fuel assistance if you need it. As someone else said, this is a handup, not a handout.

I don't quite understand the school book program that you talked about, but if it's not an option then maybe you can get the books more cheaply online. I know that my sis saved a bundle on her grad. school books that way. We would tag-team it in the bookstore, write down all the ISBN #'s on the sly (because the bookstore HATES to let students do this), and then go home and look them up on half.com, textbooks.com, amazon.com, etc. This worked out really well for her.

 

[Wish I lived in Fl]

There are many elderly people who did plan for their retirement just as you suggested only to find that the companies they worked for went belly up taking their pension and health insurance with them.

Dh's Grandfather passed away 2 years ago. His pension was $47.00 a month. Inflation had turned it into a pittance.

The only person i know who has received fuel assistance was 3 months behind on her mortgage, a single mother with 2 children, 1 of whom was severely handicapped with CP. A pretty desperate case there.

I am afraid it is going to be a hard winter because of the skyrocketing energy costs of the last few years.

I hope you can apply for other programs for energy assistance or maybe a "returning to school" scholarship such as listed in a Scholarship book at the library.

 

[disneymom3]

Brandy,
I completely know where you are coming from. DH was unemployed for quite awhile. I had always been an at home mom and I went out to work. It really didn't improve our lot any for him to get a part time job as any money he made was then deducted from the amount of unemployment he would receive. That amount was 40% of what he made at his job. The reason he was unemployed was because the technology company he worked for went bankrupt. He was in the last 20% of their workforce left with a job when they closed their doors, so it's not like he was a slacker who was let go for not doing his job. This came after we had been saddled with an $18,000 medical bill from our son's surgery that we were under the impression was covered by insurance, but as it turned out, the previous company had illegally been taking out ins premiums, but not actually paying them to the ins co so we didn't have coverage when we thought we did. So, no savings, no job, I was making about $8 an hour. In the meantime, we had a minivan that had a really high--at that point anyway, hadn't seemed high when we bought it--payment. We owed about $6000 more on that car then it was worth. We also had a second car which was worth about $5000.

Many things happened with applying for state aid that infuriated me. I was told I couldn't qualify for assistance for our heat bill because I wasn't behind on the payments. Ooookayyy, excuse me for trying to be responsible.....Then, we were Cobra-ing our insurance from DHs work. To the tune of $1100 per month. We have a son who HAS to have medical insurance. I called the state program and was told that because we had insurance available to us, we did not qualify. ( I later found out, but too late to help, that that was completely untrue.) I tried to point out to the person that ins that cost more than 50% of your total income was not really available. No luck. We didn't get it. So, I really got humble and went and applied for food stamps, income assistance, whatever. Well, remember that car with the high payment that was worth way less than we owed on it? Yeah, it was counted as an asset for the full value of the car and therefore we couldn't qualify for any aid at all. Couldn't sell the car because we couldn't come up with the extra $6000 to pay off the loan so we would still have a payment and not have any car.

Screwed. Totally screwed. And yeah, I always wondered how on earth other people qualified for this stuff. My sister used to be a single mom and her son was attending private school and qualified for free lunch. Huh? How can you pay tuition but not afford lunch? She also drove a brand new car and got rent assistance and free medical care from the state. I don't get it at all.