Starting down the college path for my kids, clueless!

[punkin]

ACT always had score choice and last year the SATs also allowed it. However there are a handful of schools (still at the very top) who require you to send them every SAT you ever sat for. I don't think they do that for the ACT because each test score you send for that test is a separate fee and gets very expensive very quickly.

 

[TLuvsD]

A few things:

For weighted GPA, the information previously posted is correct, but some colleges, including the UC system, limit the number of weighted classes (for the UC it's 4 year long classes or 8 semesters).
Even within the UC there are differences in admissions between the campuses, but they all recalculate a "UC GPA".

Is the San Francisco school UC San Francisco? If so, it waves a red flag for me...that campus is graduate only with a health services focus. There is the Univ of San Francisco, an excellent Catholic college (admits students of all faiths), but the tuition is significantly higher. Which one is she considering? If it is UC SF, it shows a lack of research.

Class rank is not done at our high school, but they will indicate which decile the student would earn....and the admission counselors at colleges know that the high school doesn't rank. So it doesn't impact the student. (None of the high schools in the district rank....seems odd to me).

SAT scores earned before 9th grade are not archived, they cannot be used for college admissions (D was in CTY, this was clarified multiple times). Some colleges request all SATs to be reported, some use score choice as previously mentioned. This is another area where 'it varies" is the most realistic answer. It would be a lot easier for students and parents if there was a standard format.

Definately look into the fair test list...there are many great colleges on that list!

For your Junior, start laying out the testing plan (dates at CollegeBoard.com and the ACT website). Look at admission requirements for the schools of interest. Check for things like subject tests (optional at the UC starting with the high school class of 2012--so your StepD needs them, your son doesn't). Make sure you consider the difference between optional and not considered.

Finally, you need to consider the financial options and clearly communicate them to your step D, your son and the ex-wife. It's fine to apply knowing that it's only going to happen with significant scholarships, but they really need to know the numbers before they get their heart set on something that is not going to happen. Or only apply to schools that are not financial safeties. And you need to decide how many years of college you are willing to fund...is it 4 or 5? (sometimes necessary at the impacted UC schools). What minimal GPA has to be achieved for continued funding? Are you going to require that the college sends the grades to you (can be done with student permission at some colleges)? Our D knows that progress towards degree and reasonable GPA are required for ongoing funds (she is still in high school).

I hope this is helpful. I started working on college a couple of years ago....I know how overwhelmed I felt at the beginning. And the "it varies" answers really complicate things!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Class rank is not done at our high school, but they will indicate which decile the student would earn....and the admission counselors at colleges know that the high school doesn't rank. So it doesn't impact the student. (None of the high schools in the district rank....seems odd to me).

Ah, thanks for posting that. That is really the only important thing anyway, not the actual rank.

I am going to ask her HS about that when she goes next yr.

 

[SondraC]

She is re-taking her SATs this Saturday. She said she doesn't want to take the ACT, and she didn't want to even re-do the SAT. Lucky us.

Also, my dh called her school this morning and spoke to her guidance counselor (here after g.c.). She (the g.c.) was useless!!! My dh expressed concern over the schools she picked based on dd SAT scores, and the g.c. said she didn't see anything wrong with the school list and that SATs were only part of what colleges look at, and that part of it is just pure luck!
She also said that it doesn't hurt to just try and see. My dh said what about wasting time & money?? She just said "well you never know."
She then said that last year's valedictorian couldn't even get into UCLA. My dh said "see that's what I mean, if she didn't get it why waste time??"

 

[bballmom56]

so out of 1600 her score would be 1170.

About her list: Pitt is doable if she raises her scores by about 100 points in Math/Verbal. Berkley is completely impossible and a waste of the application fee and time. UCLA/NYU are very slight possibilities (I wouldn't bother) UNLESS she has serious acting talent and is applying through an audition process. You (or preferably her mother and father after talking together and speaking to her with one voice) need to sit with her and find out what she wants in a school and then find appropriate schools at each level (Reach/Match/Safety).

ummm, no. The math and verbal add up to 1070 not 1170. That leaves all those schools as virtually impossible at this time. Plus NYU is incredibly expensive and not good at all with financial aid (merit or need based).

She is re-taking her SATs this Saturday. She said she doesn't want to take the ACT, and she didn't want to even re-do the SAT. Lucky us.

Also, my dh called her school this morning and spoke to her guidance counselor (here after g.c.). She (the g.c.) was useless!!! My dh expressed concern over the schools she picked based on dd SAT scores, and the g.c. said she didn't see anything wrong with the school list and that SATs were only part of what colleges look at, and that part of it is just pure luck!
She also said that it doesn't hurt to just try and see. My dh said what about wasting time & money?? She just said "well you never know."
She then said that last year's valedictorian couldn't even get into UCLA. My dh said "see that's what I mean, if she didn't get it why waste time??"

It's good that she is retaking the SAT, but I don't know if you can expect her score to rise enough to be competitive with the schools on her list now.

As for the GC . She is not being helpful or realistic at all. Looks like it will be up to you to do the work that the gc should do. It can be done. My DD's gc was useless. The only college he recommended to her was the one his kid went to . I got my act together and started reading and researching and DD did very well.

 

[bluesaturn]

You can easily check online to see the average GPA/SAT at State U. If your child falls within that average (isn't scraping the bottom edge) and if you apply early in the school year, you're not likely to be disappointed.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I know many people who should have gotten into a state school, they were firmly in the average, and didn't. And it isn't always our best state school where this happens, it's happened at the smaller ones as well. Only four schools would make me nervous personally, and I'd prefer to have a couple more options.

 

[SondraC]

ummm, no. The math and verbal add up to 1070 not 1170. That leaves all those schools as virtually impossible at this time. Plus NYU is incredibly expensive and not good at all with financial aid (merit or need based).




It's good that she is retaking the SAT, but I don't know if you can expect her score to rise enough to be competitive with the schools on her list now.

As for the GC . She is not being helpful or realistic at all. Looks like it will be up to you to do the work that the gc should do. It can be done. My DD's gc was useless. The only college he recommended to her was the one his kid went to . I got my act together and started reading and researching and DD did very well.

The guidance counselor was a joke!

 

[SondraC]

OP I agree your dd should take the ACT but she needs to hurry up, registration has closed for the Oct. 23 test date (standby may be available) and the next date is December 11. (website is act.org) That test date is kind of late for a lot of applications though. Usually your application at a college is not considered "complete" and ready for review until all components (transcript, test scores, recommendations) are received by the college.

There is another SAT on November 6 (registration ends tomorrow, after that you can do late registration) (website is collegeboard.com)

I really have to wonder why all this is being done now. What were your dh and his ex's thoughts...did they expect their daughter to go to college? Other than having her tour Pitt with you, were any other options ever discussed before she came up with her unrealistic list? Doesn't her school have a guidance counselor? They should have at least given a timeline, explained the procedure and requirements for getting transcripts and recommendations. Was nothing looked at by any of the adults until the last couple days when you OP started looking? I commend you for stepping in, and with a lot of effort and cooperation I'm sure something can be worked out. I am sure it makes it more difficult to help being so far away from her. Maybe she has done more on her end than you realize?

Perhaps a three way phone call between your dh, his ex and his dd? Or a webcam session? Just so they can get on the same page.

Good luck!

Actually we have been trying to do this with sdd for the past year, and she only took baby steps with us to talk about it or do anything.
My dh called his ex in July and expressed concern about the lack of progress and they ended up in a fighting match with the ex telling my dh that he is worry too much, and to not pressure their dd, that she was working on it.

Also I just posted this on the end of the last page, but thought I would put it here too.
My dh called her school this morning and spoke to her guidance counselor (here after g.c.). She (the g.c.) was useless!!!
My dh expressed concern over the schools she picked based on dd SAT scores, and the g.c. said she didn't see anything wrong with the school list and that SATs were only part of what colleges look at, and that part of it is just pure luck!
She also said that it doesn't hurt to just try and see. My dh said what about wasting time & money?? She just said "well you never know."
She then said that last year's valedictorian couldn't even get into UCLA. My dh said "see that's what I mean, if she didn't get it why waste time??"

 

[TLuvsD]

At most public high schools in CA the guidance counselor is responsible for hundreds of students. Literally hundreds. Frankly, the gc may not know your step daughter, may not have any idea of her SAT scores. With her gpa at 3.9 (if I remember correctly), the gc may be assuming much higher SAT scores.

You might want to hit the library or the bookstore for a college book. Or pick up the recent US News and World Report Best Colleges issue (it's a little limiting, but inexpensive). Then you will have some admission data for most colleges readily avaliable. Let her apply to a few schools immediately (I'd do one reach, one match and a safety). Additional applications depend on the SAT scores....they will be back the end of October. I think this is a middle ground approach to help keep the peace with your Step D and everyone else. It buys you some time to learn more about college...

 

[SondraC]

At most public high schools in CA the guidance counselor is responsible for hundreds of students. Literally hundreds. Frankly, the gc may not know your step daughter, may not have any idea of her SAT scores. With her gpa at 3.9 (if I remember correctly), the gc may be assuming much higher SAT scores.

You might want to hit the library or the bookstore for a college book. Or pick up the recent US News and World Report Best Colleges issue (it's a little limiting, but inexpensive). Then you will have some admission data for most colleges readily avaliable. Let her apply to a few schools immediately (I'd do one reach, one match and a safety). Additional applications depend on the SAT scores....they will be back the end of October. I think this is a middle ground approach to help keep the peace with your Step D and everyone else. It buys you some time to learn more about college...

This g.c. was very familiar with stepdd because she just spoke to her this week again. Also, she had her info in front of her because she kept referring to it during the talk.
I know they do have many students, however her tuition is over $10,000 and I expect more than "just try and see, part is just luck, you never know" kind of thing.
If she is going to do that how about at least balancing it and encouraging her to also apply to schools that match her scores.

 

[allison443]

This g.c. was very familiar with stepdd because she just spoke to her this week again. Also, she had her info in front of her because she kept referring to it during the talk.
I know they do have many students, however her tuition is over $10,000 and I expect more than "just try and see, part is just luck, you never know" kind of thing.
If she is going to do that how about at least balancing it and encouraging her to also apply to schools that match her scores.

That is very disappointing about her gc.

 

[punkin]

ummm, no. The math and verbal add up to 1070 not 1170. That leaves all those schools as virtually impossible at this time. Plus NYU is incredibly expensive and not good at all with financial aid (merit or need based).

You are right. It was a typo. I do think that based on her SAT II scores she should be able to get her SATs up another 100 points or so. it won't be sufficient for NYU, but Pitt comes squarely into range with a 1200 SAT.

 

[agnes!]

This g.c. was very familiar with stepdd because she just spoke to her this week again. Also, she had her info in front of her because she kept referring to it during the talk.
I know they do have many students, however her tuition is over $10,000 and I expect more than "just try and see, part is just luck, you never know" kind of thing.
If she is going to do that how about at least balancing it and encouraging her to also apply to schools that match her scores.

Your stepdaughter goes to a private high school? I'm surprised that the guidance counselor isn't doing a better job.
I do have to say, though, that this high school senior is lucky to have you - keep on keeping on StepMom . I know everything seems overwhelming now, but it is doable.

agnes!

 

[Mary•Poppins]

This g.c. was very familiar with stepdd because she just spoke to her this week again. Also, she had her info in front of her because she kept referring to it during the talk.
I know they do have many students, however her tuition is over $10,000 and I expect more than "just try and see, part is just luck, you never know" kind of thing.
If she is going to do that how about at least balancing it and encouraging her to also apply to schools that match her scores.

I am in the middle of reading the book I mentioned earlier called Debt-Free U and the author (who is young) mentions some good points about g.cs wanting you to apply to "big name" schools ... it makes their high schools look great if you get in (even if you can't pay). I am a teacher and the district I work in is one of the best in the area. I KNOW our high school lists the % of students who got into Ivy League schools, private well-known schools, etc.

So, just a thought to consider ....

 

[SondraC]

Your stepdaughter goes to a private high school? I'm surprised that the guidance counselor isn't doing a better job.
I do have to say, though, that this high school senior is lucky to have you - keep on keeping on StepMom . I know everything seems overwhelming now, but it is doable.

agnes!

Yes she goes to a private high school. She has been there since 5th grade, and we have not been happy with it. Thanks for the kudos!

I am in the middle of reading the book I mentioned earlier called Debt-Free U and the author (who is young) mentions some good points about g.cs wanting you to apply to "big name" schools ... it makes their high schools look great if you get in (even if you can't pay). I am a teacher and the district I work in is one of the best in the area. I KNOW our high school lists the % of students who got into Ivy League schools, private well-known schools, etc.

So, just a thought to consider ....

I think that is an excellent point!! Where do you teach? We live in Penn Township, Penn Trafford school district.

 

[SondraC]

75 minutes of my life that I won't get back.

I am more frustrated than ever with this whole thing. This is a summary of it.

(Oh, before the call, sdd text her dad and said her guidance counselor told her that her dad called them)

So, all 4 of us were on the call. Myself, dh, sdd, her mom (the ex)

Us: "So, we just wanted to touch base with both of you and see where things are. What are you plans for a journalism degree? What do you want to do?"

SDD: "Work at a newspaper or in broadcast tv."

Us: "We also wanted to clarify why you picked the schools that you did?"

SDD: "Those are the ones that I want."

Us: "Why??"

SDD: I like them.

Us: "Ex, what are your thoughts on all of this, we have done a lot of research on the schools she picked plus others that she has not thought of."

Ex: "Well, she made her list and now she just needs to apply to them to see."

Us: "Okay, but what are your opinions on them?? For instance it seems that there are mostly reach schools that don't match to her scores. She needs to pick schools based on genuine interest in that school, and that also is more of a match."

SDD: (Starts getting LOUD with us) "What do you mean? You guys are acting like I am an awful student with bad grades, and I think you are both not giving me credit that I can get into all of these schools!" (she starts crying & pretty much yelling at this point)


More to follow....(I need to get my younger son on the bus)

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Oh boy.

You have a 2-fold issue here. It is one thing to get into the college, it is a whole other ball of wax to get into the journalism school.

I know Mizzou being one of the popular journalism schools, it is TOUGH. Most of the kids drop out because they cannot make the grades to get into to the J-School. The competition is very high and hard.

That being said my dh had a coworker dd who just graduated in 3 1/2 yrs. She took max hours, top notch scores and already has a job.

I really feel for you. Perhaps you can give her a set amount that you will reimburse the EX for with application fees. I certainly would not hand out my CC#, period.

 

[Mimi1965]

Wait-didnt you say her writing was her lowest score in the testing?

Journalism will never ever pay-those are low paying jobs-IF you can get your foot in the door

06/2010, SAT Subject Test 620 Literature 560 Mathematics Level 2

05/2010, SAT Test 540 Reading 530 Math 480 Writing

 

[agnes!]

Oh my... sounds like Ex has indulged this girl and she has a bad case of I WANT WHAT I WANT WHEN I WANT IT-itis. I'm angry for her, I'm angry at her, I'm angry at the ennabling mother, I'm sad that the two of them working together are so blind and I don't even know any of you.

Has your step *ever* done *any* work on student publications? Has she worked on her school newspaper or the yearbook, has she taken any journalism classes in high school, has she ever known anybody who works in journalism, has she ever shadowed someone for a day or a week to see what it's like?

A comeuppance is aiming for this girl and it ain't gonna be pretty when the excrement hits the fan. I would investigate exactly what it will take for her to get into Pitt or to get into any of its satellite campuses. Know how much that will cost, what the deadlines are and don't tell Ex or step.

Oh, and encourage step to get all those apps in as soon as possible. Frankly, the sooner she starts getting rejections the better.

agnes!

 

[WheresFigment?]

You know what, at this point since her mother is completely enabling her, let them dig their own grave.

Tell them you will not help pay application fees for schools she doesn't have a prayer of getting into, and send them on their way.

This time next year, she'll be having an excellent time at community college and saving you lots of money, because she is not going to get into the majority of the schools she chose.

They will say the SAT scores are only one thing that the schools look at but you know what, it's a big one. Why is that? because it's (theoretically) STANDARDIZED. They have no idea how grades are issued in the classes at your daughter's school, but they do know that everyone whose application is on their desk took the same set of SATs. It is just plain easier for the admissions officer to start comparing scores than to start comparing grades.

So that SAT is going to count, and it's not good enough to hack it where she wants to go. So let her learn that the hard way. She can do a year at community college and try to transfer if she's really that serious about it, but I would stop losing your hair over it since between the mother and the GC, she is being fully enabled and isn't going to listen to you anyway.

My GPA was average compared to the top acheivers at my large high school (I think I had a 3.5 roughly) but I got a 33 on my ACT and got piles of merit aid at smaller schools who NEEDED students like me. I was foolish and turned them down, but I even got a full ride offer. They're really just going about this all wrong.