Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker discussion thread (*** now contains spoilers ***)

[jknezek]

Finally saw RoS. I thought it was a worthy conclusion. Given the mess of plot points left from 8, I think this was the best we could get. I teared up a couple times, liked the arcs, enjoyed the banter, and really feel like the story was concluded. It was long, but it needed to be to close up as much as was left flapping after 8. Like any Star Wars there are plot holes you could drive a Star Destroyer through. But I feel like it brought us back on track. I think it was the best of the new trilogy. But I can understand why some people didn't like it as well.

 

[Boski]

Fake deaths: gets tiresome after a while. Chewie dies! no he didn't. C3P0 makes a huge sacrifice and basically kills himself. Nope, he's back. New character Poe love interest with the coin and cute? little alien who kills (or not) C3P0 are dead! Another planet destroyed. Nope, they're fine. Rey kills Kylo! Nope, she heals him, he's fine. Kylo blasted down a giant hole, he's gone! Nope, he's back.

This one was the most frustrating one for me. When she blew up the transport it legit hit me hard. My mind just went all over the place but I didn't even have enough time to process it because it was like oh no worries, hes OK, he was on another ship.

 

[OSUZorba]

I don't really see how someone can call RoS emotionless, or as I've seen elsewhere in other reviews, "it contains no redemption arc." I just feel I must be watching a different movie with the same name somehow.

I also don't like the comparison game as far as trying to pit RoS against Mando... and I especially don't understand the people commenting about Disney screwing up Star Wars forever, but they luv the Mandalorian.

https://imgur.com/rTSibb3

 

[JJJLoves WDW]

Finally decided to throw my opinion into the ring.

I've watched it twice now and given it some time.

Didn't really like it.

Even though it's a story about laser swords and mystical things, I still prefer my story/entertainment to have a cohesive story, plot and characters. I don't think that is asking for too much.

I'm glad this trilogy is over, they've killed off all the originals and seem to have soured the new actors into doing anything else SW related (at least John Boyega). So we can now move on onto other SW endeavors. I'm excited to see what other ideas they can come up with, and I hope they get far away from the Skywalkers. Many other stories to be told of other people/time periods.

Just some bullet points:

Music: music is one of the best parts of movies for me. Besides the sith planet screeching, I couldn't name one memorable theme or song from this movie. So that was a miss.

Plot points: what was even happening?? so many different sets/needless characters. An ancient Sith dagger that has a map to one of the wayfinders, that perfectly matches up with the death star wreckage...ok I guess it's not an ancient sith dagger and was made in the last 15 years? I just don't know. Sorry, I guess I'm thinking about it too much. I'll just focus on the explosions and pretty people. I realize that expecting things to make sense is asking too much and I'll get slammed for it.

Planet killers: this is an awfully dangerous galaxy. I wonder if, after a while, no one is even affected by losing planets anymore because it happens so often. I guess the Star Destroyer that killed the Zuri Bliss planet is still out there?

Fake deaths: gets tiresome after a while. Chewie dies! no he didn't. C3P0 makes a huge sacrifice and basically kills himself. Nope, he's back. New character Poe love interest with the coin and cute? little alien who kills (or not) C3P0 are dead! Another planet destroyed. Nope, they're fine. Rey kills Kylo! Nope, she heals him, he's fine. Kylo blasted down a giant hole, he's gone! Nope, he's back.

Leia: most of her lines made no sense. Rey says she is going to fight a big bad evil and Leia says 'no', then just stands there and stares at Rey? ok. They should have redone the ending of the Last Jedi and had Leia be the one to sacrifice herself by lightspeeding kamikazing into the First Order fleet. They already had footage of her on a bridge that was destroyed.
It was painfully obvious none of her scenes were filmed for this movie. Personally, it really took me out of the story.

Poe: he was pretty, yes. but not sure of his overall point.

Finn: He has something important to tell Rey. Comes up numerous times. But hey, why resolve this in the movie? We can give the major plot point from a tweet. Myself, and every other person I talked to, thought he wanted to tell Rey he loved her. Big fail of the movie there. Would have liked it if his arc had been to free the other enslaved children stormtroopers. Instead he didn't do much.

Maz Kanata: was flying around in a jetpack with a blaster fighting in Jedi, this movie doesn't join the fight and stays back watching and then gives Chewie a medal because the internet wants to see Chewie get a medal?

Rey: whatever. I guess falling in love with someone who wipes out all his fellow Jedi students and kills his dad is ok? Very romantic. In all seriousness though, would have appreciated if the movie slowed it's frenetic pace to focus more on Kylo and Rey and dark side and light side.

Why was Dominic Monaghan even in this movie?! Weird stunt casting. Could have given Carrie Fisher's daughter or Rose his lines and been fine.

Why were two new female characters added and Rose ignored?

I'm sure there's more but the movie kind of exhausts me.

It's fine that other people loved it, just wasn't for me.

Totally agree with you. I wish studios (not just Disney) would spend some of a movie's budget on the script and not just the special effects. Some of the dialog is this movie sounded like George Lucas wrote it.

 

[YesterDark]

Saw this yesterday finally. I'm a huge SW fan and I thought it was entertaining but forgettable.

I'm glad this mess of a trilogy is done. It was poorly written, executed and planned. The actors, directing, effects etc. were all great. The story was god awful, the writing was bad, but not prequel bad. My only point of frustration is that we as fans should have gotten something so much better.

TLJ is not even needed to tell the story. You can show someone Episode 7 and 9 and I bet you most people wouldn't even notice.

I started writing a list of inconsistencies and terrible plot holes but there are too many. One or two isn't bad in a Star Wars movie, but all of them? Gosh. Together it's just like Disney took some terrible fan fictions, put it together and spent a ton of money on talented people to execute it.

To "save" this franchise they need to put smart competent people in charge and plan this out like they did with Marvel.

(When I say save, I realize they make tons of money on this and it's not a dead franchise)

I can keep rambling on but it's not worth it. Everything is well documented in TLJ and ROS and the issues with the film.

I enjoyed it in the theaters but the more I think about it the more I'm dissapointed.

 

[YesterDark]

I’m with Eisner. TROS is a mostly enjoyable movie but the only time I felt anything was when Chewbacca found out Leah died. I’m interested to see how it ages I feel like Rogue one has aged the best of all the Disney movies.

I'm totally with this sentiment as well.

 

[YesterDark]

Finally decided to throw my opinion into the ring.

I've watched it twice now and given it some time.

Didn't really like it.

>SNIP<

It's fine that other people loved it, just wasn't for me.

Hey you wrote my partial list for me and better than what I would have done. Did you watch the Red Letter Media review? Because that sounds very much in line with what they were saying.

I agree with all of it.

 

[OhioStateBuckeye]

Hey you wrote my partial list for me and better than what I would have done. Did you watch the Red Letter Media review? Because that sounds very much in line with what they were saying.

I agree with all of it.

I do watch those guys, but haven't yet had time to watch their Skywalker review.

But our opinions usually do line up, so I wouldn't be shocked if I sound like them.

I also agree with your opinion above, if only they had got the story/script down, these could have been amazing.

People keep saying that the originals had plot holes, but compared to the new trilogy they're more like threadbare places on the sweater instead of giant gaping holes.

 

[jknezek]

TLJ is not even needed to tell the story. You can show someone Episode 7 and 9 and I bet you most people wouldn't even notice.

I made this point yesterday to some people who were over my house last night. They love 8 and really disagreed until we actually sat down and watched 8 again. The only things you need from 8, and both could be explained by one sentence in 9, are Luke and Snope's deaths and a few throwaway comments about Rey's parents and the lack of support for the Rebels from the rest of the galaxy. By the end of 8 we all agreed you could add about 3 minutes to 9, or just rework a bit of 9, and make 7 and 9 the whole thing.

I say this as someone who enjoyed 7 and 9 and someone who will tolerate 8 though not really enjoy it. I also love Rogue 1 and really like Solo. Love the Mandalorian. So I think Star Wars has done pretty well, but Kennedy failed switching between the directors and keeping the plot consistent in the trilogy. I think the movies are entertaining and I really feel like 9, in a self-deprecating way, addressed many of the complaints I had been voicing. There was a lot to wrap up and I think it was actually wrapped as well as you could get.

The failure was 8. In my opinion not because of what a lot of the fan base got upset about. Just because the plot didn't flow. It didn't flow from 7, it didn't advance into 9. It is a standalone by a director who didn't play ball or wasn't asked to play ball. And that falls on Kennedy's shoulders.

That being said, 8 is my only problem with Kennedy. So I'm not really up in arms about her running of the franchise. But I do think if they are going to do trilogies, they need to bring in someone who will keep the arc or she needs to really steward it better, since she didn't do it this time.

 

[BrianL]

I made this point yesterday to some people who were over my house last night. They love 8 and really disagreed until we actually sat down and watched 8 again. The only things you need from 8, and both could be explained by one sentence in 9, are Luke and Snope's deaths and a few throwaway comments about Rey's parents and the lack of support for the Rebels from the rest of the galaxy. By the end of 8 we all agreed you could add about 3 minutes to 9, or just rework a bit of 9, and make 7 and 9 the whole thing.

I say this as someone who enjoyed 7 and 9 and someone who will tolerate 8 though not really enjoy it. I also love Rogue 1 and really like Solo. Love the Mandalorian. So I think Star Wars has done pretty well, but Kennedy failed switching between the directors and keeping the plot consistent in the trilogy. I think the movies are entertaining and I really feel like 9, in a self-deprecating way, addressed many of the complaints I had been voicing. There was a lot to wrap up and I think it was actually wrapped as well as you could get.

The failure was 8. In my opinion not because of what a lot of the fan base got upset about. Just because the plot didn't flow. It didn't flow from 7, it didn't advance into 9. It is a standalone by a director who didn't play ball or wasn't asked to play ball. And that falls on Kennedy's shoulders.

That being said, 8 is my only problem with Kennedy. So I'm not really up in arms about her running of the franchise. But I do think if they are going to do trilogies, they need to bring in someone who will keep the arc or she needs to really steward it better, since she didn't do it this time.

You have a reasonable stance, and I respect that. I do think TLJ though showed a lot of character growth - Poe learned to be more of a leader, Luke learned that walling himself off from The Force was wrong, Rey underwent her training such that it was, Finn learned that it was important to fight for a cause - all of that happened in the movie and Ep IX couldn't have really started where it did without that.

 

[jknezek]

You have a reasonable stance, and I respect that. I do think TLJ though showed a lot of character growth - Poe learned to be more of a leader, Luke learned that walling himself off from The Force was wrong, Rey underwent her training such that it was, Finn learned that it was important to fight for a cause - all of that happened in the movie and Ep IX couldn't have really started where it did without that.

Maybe. But Poe was a respected leader in 7. In the beginning of 8 he led the raid that destroyed the super ship though at great cost. So "more" is kind of an odd quantifier. He grew most at the end of 9 when he wasn't sure how to lead and questioned his decisions. Luke could have just been dead. He only walled himself off from the Force in 8 because that's how 8 went. So if he hadn't walled himself off, he wouldn't have had to learn not to. A problem created unnecessarily in 8. Rey's training was better in 9 than in 8. Much better. Luke being a coward was not necessary and again, completely fabricated in 8 for no reason necessary in 7 or 9. Finn had already learned to fight for Rey and Poe. They were his cause. It only deepened in 9 because he found more deserters, not because of the evil Military-Industrial complex completely extraneous plot in 8. His existential moment of cowardice was a common theme for Johnson in 8 and unnecessary to either 7 or 9.

None of those things needed to happen. IX could have started right where it did. They destroyed Starkiller base but it cost the Rebellion almost all their resources. They put out a call at their new hidden base where the remainder of the New Order had driven them and have gotten no response from the greater galaxy. You could have put that in the crawl and not needed 8 at all.

I understand people liked 8 and they aren't going to like how little role it played in anything to do with the trilogy. But if you watch it again, you will realize 8 is, essentially, a weird standalone.

 

[BrianL]

Maybe. But Poe was a respected leader in 7. In the beginning of 8 he led the raid that destroyed the super ship though at great cost. So "more" is kind of an odd quantifier. He grew most at the end of 9 when he wasn't sure how to lead and questioned his decisions. Luke could have just been dead. He only walled himself off from the Force in 8 because that's how 8 went. So if he hadn't walled himself off, he wouldn't have had to learn not to. A problem created unnecessarily in 8. Rey's training was better in 9 than in 8. Much better. Luke being a coward was not necessary and again, completely fabricated in 8 for no reason necessary in 7 or 9. Finn had already learned to fight for Rey and Poe. They were his cause. It only deepened in 9 because he found more deserters, not because of the evil Military-Industrial complex completely extraneous plot in 8. His existential moment of cowardice was a common theme for Johnson in 8 and unnecessary to either 7 or 9.

None of those things needed to happen. IX could have started right where it did. They destroyed Starkiller base but it cost the Rebellion almost all their resources. They put out a call at their new hidden base where the remainder of the New Order had driven them and have gotten no response from the greater galaxy. You could have put that in the crawl and not needed 8 at all.

I understand people liked 8 and they aren't going to like how little role it played in anything to do with the trilogy. But if you watch it again, you will realize 8 is, essentially, a weird standalone.

I completely disagree. VII set up that Luke has hidden himself away. He only did what Yoda did - I'm not sure that I would call it cowardice. That's a harsh interpretation by those who didn't want to see Luke taking that road and can't accept with the fact that he's not this perfect paragon of heroism. If he was intended to be, where is he in TFA? Otherwise, all of the characters went through growth - just because you didn't like how it was presented doesn't make it irrelevant. Poe did need to learn to be more cautious, though I actually agree with him regarding his issues with Holdo's leadership style. He wasn't shown as a "great leader" in VII, more of a very capable fighter pilot - we don't see that he is well-rounded. I think it's pretty clear that Finn is all-in for The Resistance at the beginning of IX, not because of the other deserters. He wasn't only looking out for Rey & Poe this whole time. I really don't see cowardice anywhere in Finn's actions in VIII. We also needed to see Rey & Kylo's relationship deepen, which we did in VIII. I just can't see how it is extraneous at all.

 

[jknezek]

I completely disagree. VII set up that Luke has hidden himself away. He only did what Yoda did - I'm not sure that I would call it cowardice. That's a harsh interpretation by those who didn't want to see Luke taking that road and can't accept with the fact that he's not this perfect paragon of heroism. If he was intended to be, where is he in TFA? Otherwise, all of the characters went through growth - just because you didn't like how it was presented doesn't make it irrelevant. Poe did need to learn to be more cautious, though I actually agree with him regarding his issues with Holdo's leadership style. He wasn't shown as a "great leader" in VII, more of a very capable fighter pilot - we don't see that he is well-rounded. I think it's pretty clear that Finn is all-in for The Resistance at the beginning of IX, not because of the other deserters. He wasn't only looking out for Rey & Poe this whole time. I really don't see cowardice anywhere in Finn's actions in VIII. We also needed to see Rey & Kylo's relationship deepen, which we did in VIII. I just can't see how it is extraneous at all.

I think we'll just have to see it completely differently. Movies are obviously open to interpretation. I don't really see any of the above as having been correct or necessary to 9, just fabrications of 8. Considering I watched 8 and 9 yesterday I feel comfortable with my interpretation, but I'm sure other people watching it would come to other interpretations.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I made this point yesterday to some people who were over my house last night. They love 8 and really disagreed until we actually sat down and watched 8 again. The only things you need from 8, and both could be explained by one sentence in 9, are Luke and Snope's deaths and a few throwaway comments about Rey's parents and the lack of support for the Rebels from the rest of the galaxy. By the end of 8 we all agreed you could add about 3 minutes to 9, or just rework a bit of 9, and make 7 and 9 the whole thing.

I say this as someone who enjoyed 7 and 9 and someone who will tolerate 8 though not really enjoy it. I also love Rogue 1 and really like Solo. Love the Mandalorian. So I think Star Wars has done pretty well, but Kennedy failed switching between the directors and keeping the plot consistent in the trilogy. I think the movies are entertaining and I really feel like 9, in a self-deprecating way, addressed many of the complaints I had been voicing. There was a lot to wrap up and I think it was actually wrapped as well as you could get.

The failure was 8. In my opinion not because of what a lot of the fan base got upset about. Just because the plot didn't flow. It didn't flow from 7, it didn't advance into 9. It is a standalone by a director who didn't play ball or wasn't asked to play ball. And that falls on Kennedy's shoulders.

That being said, 8 is my only problem with Kennedy. So I'm not really up in arms about her running of the franchise. But I do think if they are going to do trilogies, they need to bring in someone who will keep the arc or she needs to really steward it better, since she didn't do it this time.

Makes me think similar to the prequels in that the first two movies could have been combined and then the third movie could have be expanded on to fill out two movies

 

[OSUZorba]

I still think the problems with this trilogy started with TFA. A wishy-washy bad guy. And a good guy that went from a nobody to Luke levels of abilities just from hearing the word "force." Other than that it was packed full of fan service and ridiculous amount of circumstance.

Sure it's a fun movie, but I think it was a poor lead in to a trilogy. I think there was more of an over arching story than people believe, it just wasn't a good one.

 

[BrianL]

I think we'll just have to see it completely differently. Movies are obviously open to interpretation. I don't really see any of the above as having been correct or necessary to 9, just fabrications of 8. Considering I watched 8 and 9 yesterday I feel comfortable with my interpretation, but I'm sure other people watching it would come to other interpretations.

Well, I think what happens, and I am guilty of this too, is that when one doesn't like a movie overall we see a lot of flaws in it, things we may forgive in another movie that we did like. Movies are really judged on how they make us feel. I know as a huge comic fan, I love the Marvel movies but I hate the DC ones (I feel opposite about the comics). The thing is, I know that not all Marvel Studios movies are perfect, and in some ways commit the same "errors" that the DC movies do - but I will pick apart a DC film because I dislike them so much. So, I do get it.

I still think that a lot of TLJ, at least the Luke stuff, was pretty well set up by TFA. The rest, yeah, maybe a bit unnecessary, but still good story. It doesn't have to all be so-called "important" to be interesting.

 

[Mome Rath]

I completely disagree. VII set up that Luke has hidden himself away. He only did what Yoda did - I'm not sure that I would call it cowardice. That's a harsh interpretation by those who didn't want to see Luke taking that road and can't accept with the fact that he's not this perfect paragon of heroism. If he was intended to be, where is he in TFA? Otherwise, all of the characters went through growth - just because you didn't like how it was presented doesn't make it irrelevant. Poe did need to learn to be more cautious, though I actually agree with him regarding his issues with Holdo's leadership style. He wasn't shown as a "great leader" in VII, more of a very capable fighter pilot - we don't see that he is well-rounded. I think it's pretty clear that Finn is all-in for The Resistance at the beginning of IX, not because of the other deserters. He wasn't only looking out for Rey & Poe this whole time. I really don't see cowardice anywhere in Finn's actions in VIII. We also needed to see Rey & Kylo's relationship deepen, which we did in VIII. I just can't see how it is extraneous at all.

I think the Rey/Ben bit is the most important as far as plot. We see their connection and how it works, as well as Kylo's hints of Ben still being in there (he wouldn't fire on his mother, for example, nor would he allow Snoke to hurt Rey). We also saw Luke and Ben's interactions, which is the key to understanding Kylo.

Finn is my absolute least favorite character (give me Jar Jar over Finn lol), but he was never cemented into the Resistance until him and Rose went gallivanting. I think TLJ was a bridge... I just don't think it was a very good one, in that I didn't like Luke's treatment at all. Rise of Skywalker had to redo the bridge, or add supports before it could finish the story. I'll watch them all again, I'm sure, but I'll enjoy RoS the most.

 

[dalmatian7]

Thanks for this thread. I have found it to be an interesting read, especially how everyone was guessing what was happening to 3PO before the movie came out. I was like most of you, nervous they were going to end him.

I am a Star Wars fan, but I am not deeply versed in all things Star Wars, so I guess just a casual fan? I finally saw the new movie yesterday with my daughter (9 and a fan) and husband (not a fan). We enjoyed it. I teared up when they thought they had no support from the galaxy and then all the ships appeared. I thought the return to Tattoine was a fitting end. As much as I was against the Kylo/Rey connected thing after TFA (DD called him the worst bad guy ever, she is a Darth Vader fan). Their connection made sense in the end. It was an exciting, action packed movie with some mysticism and I thought a good way to end the final 3 movies. I really enjoyed it and was glad we saw it on the big screen.

I know there is a lot of dislike for The last Jedi, but doesn't it kind of follow the path of the original trilogy. Empire Strikes Back is pretty bleak. It ends with everyone captured or injured and with the big bomb of Vader being Luke's father. There were a lot of unanswered questions in that movie too. I think at the time it came out, there wasn't so much cannon to reference to poke holes in everything. Unanswered questions were just part of the story we didn't know yet, of didn't need to know. I don't need every plot point and character backstory hashed out in detail to enjoy the movie. The only thing I found choppy in this last movie was Rose. I felt like there were missing scenes there with either her and Finn.

I am intrigued by the books and comics mentioned in this thread, where is the best place to start with those? Now that we have access to Rebels and Clone Wars, I want to catch up on those. I started watching the Rebels series a few years ago and really enjoyed it.

Another series I haven't seen mentioned here is the Lego Freemaker Adventures. Is this just ignored? or because it is Lego it isn't "cool" with hardcore fans? My daughter and I really enjoyed our "girls night" one summer waiting to watch those as they came out on Disney Channel. I really didn't know anything about the crystals until that series.

 

[BrianL]

Thanks for this thread. I have found it to be an interesting read, especially how everyone was guessing what was happening to 3PO before the movie came out. I was like most of you, nervous they were going to end him.

I am a Star Wars fan, but I am not deeply versed in all things Star Wars, so I guess just a casual fan? I finally saw the new movie yesterday with my daughter (9 and a fan) and husband (not a fan). We enjoyed it. I teared up when they thought they had no support from the galaxy and then all the ships appeared. I thought the return to Tattoine was a fitting end. As much as I was against the Kylo/Rey connected thing after TFA (DD called him the worst bad guy ever, she is a Darth Vader fan). Their connection made sense in the end. It was an exciting, action packed movie with some mysticism and I thought a good way to end the final 3 movies. I really enjoyed it and was glad we saw it on the big screen.

I know there is a lot of dislike for The last Jedi, but doesn't it kind of follow the path of the original trilogy. Empire Strikes Back is pretty bleak. It ends with everyone captured or injured and with the big bomb of Vader being Luke's father. There were a lot of unanswered questions in that movie too. I think at the time it came out, there wasn't so much cannon to reference to poke holes in everything. Unanswered questions were just part of the story we didn't know yet, of didn't need to know. I don't need every plot point and character backstory hashed out in detail to enjoy the movie. The only thing I found choppy in this last movie was Rose. I felt like there were missing scenes there with either her and Finn.

I am intrigued by the books and comics mentioned in this thread, where is the best place to start with those? Now that we have access to Rebels and Clone Wars, I want to catch up on those. I started watching the Rebels series a few years ago and really enjoyed it.

Another series I haven't seen mentioned here is the Lego Freemaker Adventures. Is this just ignored? or because it is Lego it isn't "cool" with hardcore fans? My daughter and I really enjoyed our "girls night" one summer waiting to watch those as they came out on Disney Channel. I really didn't know anything about the crystals until that series.

I agree with your thoughts on Empire. For me, the only minor issue I have with the entire Sequel Trilogy is how closely it resembles the OT in the story beats - yet ESB is loves and TLJ is hated?

For additional canon, I'm not sure I can recommend any books or comics and they can be hit and miss. Definitely watch Clone Wars and Rebels - they are fantastic! Lego stuff is not considered canon as they are more like parodies, but I don't know that most fans think of them as "not cool." Many have enjoyed the video games and such - they just aren't really relevant to the saga overall.

 

[LizzyS]

View attachment 461602

I'm really not like that, in all honesty. I am very much a huge fan of TFA & TLJ, which are very different from each other.

You are correct in that this is how it's been going in the fandom at large, however.