Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker discussion thread (*** now contains spoilers ***)

[The Pho]

You don't even need Ep 1. It's completely unnecessary. The cool characters like Maul and Quigon are killed off and have no impact in the plots of Ep2 and 3.

Phantom Menace is pretty crucial in getting the full Palpatine story.

 

[YesterDark]

The story now making the rounds is this was not the cut of the movie JJ made. Supposedly significant changes were made to the cut of the film JJ presented to Lucasfilm/Disney executives. Who knows what to believe, might just be butt covering coming from the Bad Robot camp as they head over to Warner.

That's curious, because you could have just cut about an hour out of the movie and have zero impact on the story and the characters. You could eliminate Lando and the latest ex-Stormtrooper, and the whole ground evasion of the star destroyer and still be fine.

Essentially, whenever Poe/Finn/Chewbie and team were not with Rey, their whole story was practically useless and can be cut.

 

[Jennasis]

The cavalry showing up to save the day is a trope as old as film itself. I point you to my favorite western and one of the best things I watched in film school...John Ford's 1939 classic, STAGECOACH.

 

[Brianstl]

Yeah, and Return of the Jedi made less than Empire. I don't think that means much. It is not pacing too far behind TLJ - I am pretty sure financially it is just fine.

Return of the Jedi made substantially more money in it’s initial run than Empire made it it’s initial run.

 

[Brianstl]

That's curious, because you could have just cut about an hour out of the movie and have zero impact on the story and the characters. You could eliminate Lando and the latest ex-Stormtrooper, and the whole ground evasion of the star destroyer and still be fine.

Essentially, whenever Poe/Finn/Chewbie and team were not with Rey, their whole story was practically useless and can be cut.

The JJ cut is supposedly even longer at over 3 hours.

 

[Dis_Fan]

The cavalry showing up to save the day is a trope as old as film itself. I point you to my favorite western and one of the best things I watched in film school...John Ford's 1939 classic, STAGECOACH.

The beats are so in synch and exact it seems more then a trope and more pure lazyness in the film. Down to how Rey says her quip almost exactly like Tony.

It would not be so bad if the moment in Rise made sense or was earned. The fact it fell flat to me only highlighted how the scenes mirrored Endgame so exactly and how well and emotional played the scene.

 

[Jennasis]

The beats are so in synch and exact it seems more then a trope and more pure lazyness in the film. Down to how Rey says her quip almost exactly like Tony.

It would not be so bad if the moment in Rise made sense or was earned. The fact it fell flat to me only highlighted how the scenes mirrored Endgame so exactly and how well and emotional played the scene.

So you think JJ Abrams watched Endgame (which was released while RoS was already shot and in post)...said "cool ending!" and then stole it for his own movie and somehow went back and reshot it and put it in?

 

[BrianL]

Return of the Jedi made substantially more money in it’s initial run than Empire made it it’s initial run.

According to Box Offic Mojo - the original release only, ESB did $400M and Jedi did $374M, so that's the info that I have. But it doesn't really matter. Both are considered wildly successful, as would Rise of Skywalker. Why are some people so wildly invested in this movie being a failure? It is not by pretty much any metric, and it is still in it's first run.

 

[tlmadden73]

Why are some people so wildly invested in this movie being a failure? It is not by pretty much any metric, and it is still in it's first run.

It earns them money ..

There is quite a lot of You Tubers that get a lot of views by bashing on Disney Star Wars ..DAILY! Don't watch them .. watch one .. and ALL the others show up in your feed. It is amazing the amount of time (and effort) these channels spend to bash on anything remotely negative on Disney's Star Wars (with the exception of the Mandalorian).

Some would say it is passion . .they don't want to see "their" franchise "ruined" . .but at some point .. if you don't like what is happening with a franchise . just leave quietly, right?

Could these movies been better? Yes. Did they make some questionable decisions? Yes. It is just naturally what comes from what obviously is a corporation having (and wanting) control over the creative process. Decisions were made for political reasons, for marketing reasons, for "fan service" reasons .. and some of the creativity of storytelling gets lost with too many cooks in the kitchen.

But I had fun watching them .. a lot .. after waiting a long time since the prequels (which, in a lot of ways .. are worse than the sequel trilogy, except for that they spawned a great show like the Clone Wars).

 

[Dis_Fan]

So you think JJ Abrams watched Endgame (which was released while RoS was already shot and in post)...said "cool ending!" and then stole it for his own movie and somehow went back and reshot it and put it in?

I have no idea how many, when, or what form possible reshots JJ might have wanted or needed.

I do know Endgame came out 6 months plus ago (and was shot years ago, before Captain Marvel, back to back with Infinity Wars) and in that time JJ could have said "hey I made the exact same thing with the exact same beats, maybe I could tweak the editing a little so I am not literally having the Falcon radio the hero like one of the biggest movies ever that had the Falcon radio the hero".

I do not think JJ stole the Endgame script and copied it. It is a trope for a reason. I am poking a little fun at a movie that could have had Rey say "I am Iron Man" and have it fit perfectly.

JJ could have, and had every possibility, to tweak things and he did not. And I will put that on him though.

 

[Mome Rath]

All I can say is that when you have a 'verse as big as Star Wars, you are always going to have hits and misses, and you are always going to make some happy and some mad. I guess that's why I don't get too worked up either way. There are novels/comics that I loved that are now AU, and novels/comics I like that are canon, and there's ones I didn't care for. Same with games. I really enjoyed some of the SW movies, including Rise, and some movies that were just kinda bad. I have favorite characters and least favorite characters.

And, more than all that, I realize that it's all subjective; we can dress our opinions up in all kinds of ways, but in the end, it's about personal tastes... and blind spots. lol (For example, my husband hates the original trilogy and would much rather watch anything other than Episodes IV, V, VI.) I just hope that the difficult fandom isn't enough for Disney to stop investing in the SW franchise; it doesn't look like that will stop them, but I just wonder if they realized what they were walking into.

 

[Jennasis]

I have no idea how many, when, or what form possible reshots JJ might have wanted or needed.

I do know Endgame came out 6 months plus ago (and was shot years ago, before Captain Marvel, back to back with Infinity Wars) and in that time JJ could have said "hey I made the exact same thing with the exact same beats, maybe I could tweak the editing a little so I am not literally having the Falcon radio the hero like one of the biggest movies ever that had the Falcon radio the hero".

I do not think JJ stole the Endgame script and copied it. It is a trope for a reason. I am poking a little fun at a movie that could have had Rey say "I am Iron Man" and have it fit perfectly.

JJ could have, and had every possibility, to tweak things and he did not. And I will put that on him though.

And you know that the original Star Wars is essentially The Searchers, right?

 

[Dis_Fan]

And you know that the original Star Wars is essentially The Searchers, right?

And you know The Force Awakens is essentially A New Hope, right?

Really makes no difference or is relevent.There are tropes, there are homages, there are parodies.

Intentional or not (and I do not think it was intentional or malicious in its conception, but maybe in its execution especially after Endgame was released) if you can not see how perfectly the endings synch up to the point it is ludicrously the same then we can agree to disagree.

 

[Jennasis]

And you know The Force Awakens is essentially A New Hope, right?

Really makes no difference or is relevent.There are tropes, there are homages, there are parodies.

Intentional or not (and I do not think it was intentional or malicious in its conception, but maybe in its execution especially after Endgame was released) if you can not see how perfectly the endings synch up to the point it is ludicrously the same then we can agree to disagree.

That's what I'm saying. Movies have been using the same formulas forever.

The Force Awakens WAS A New Hope (practically shot for shot LOL). So what? It was fun. Does it make The Lion King less enjoyable because it's Hamlet? Was RoS less enjoyable because of its similarities to Endgame?

Meh. Sometimes I think I'm the only one who can just enjoy a movie as entertainment. Must be why I drove my film professors mad. I HATED Citizen Kane. The Godfather was boring.

I like the Money Pit...that is my answer to that.

 

[Dis_Fan]

That's what I'm saying. Movies have been using the same formulas forever.

The Force Awakens WAS A New Hope (practically shot for shot LOL). So what? It was fun. Does it make The Lion King less enjoyable because it's Hamlet? Was RoS less enjoyable because of its similarities to Endgame?

Meh. Sometimes I think I'm the only one who can just enjoy a movie as entertainment. Must be why I drove my film professors mad. I HATED Citizen Kane. The Godfather was boring.

I like the Money Pit...that is my answer to that.

The Money Pit insists on itself.

Rise was less enjoyable because it was a bad movie compared to Endgame. Not because it was inspired by Gus Van Sant to do a shot by shot remake of the ending.

I like the Fast and the Furious....that is my answer to that.

 

[BrianL]

That's what I'm saying. Movies have been using the same formulas forever.

The Force Awakens WAS A New Hope (practically shot for shot LOL). So what? It was fun. Does it make The Lion King less enjoyable because it's Hamlet? Was RoS less enjoyable because of its similarities to Endgame?

Meh. Sometimes I think I'm the only one who can just enjoy a movie as entertainment. Must be why I drove my film professors mad. I HATED Citizen Kane. The Godfather was boring.

I like the Money Pit...that is my answer to that.

I agree. So what if they are similar - they were both great! I like Avatar, and a lot of people always call it derisively "Pocahontas in space." So? Pocahontas is wonderful! So there are similarities to a great movie - I mean, it's not like it's similar to a BAD movie. Also, once you really get into it, they are pretty different anyway. You are spot on. Though I do love Citizen Kane, I don't care for The Godfatehr at all. I recognize it is a well crafted film, it's not my kind of film.

 

[Jennasis]

The Money Pit insists on itself.

Rise was less enjoyable because it was a bad movie compared to Endgame. Not because it was inspired by Gus Van Sant to do a shot by shot remake of the ending.

I like the Fast and the Furious....that is my answer to that.

I thought Godzilla was the best movie of the year. Better than Endgame and Rise.

 

[Dis_Fan]

I thought Godzilla was the best movie of the year. Better than Endgame and Rise.

Well I heard JJ wanted the Emperor to explain his plan through a broadcasted powerpoint presentation to the heros but JJ decided just to rip off one movie at a time.

Jo Jo Rabbit was probably the best movie of the year.

 

[momandmousefan]

I'm pretty convinced people will watch SW even if there's no lightsabers. Though I wouldn't mind going way back to Old Republic and seeing some giant sith/jedi battles.

I'm still waiting for my X wing squadron TV show.

An x wing show would be fabulous, just more Rogue Squadron versus alphabet style squadron writing would be nice.

 

[Brocktoon]

With the end of holiday season, I finally got a chance to catch up on my comics ... For the people who may not be in the know, the 1st issue (of 4) of 'The Rise of Kylo Ren' was released a couple weeks ago. With the recent film trilogy finished, it looks like they're not holding any info back for this series. Based on the 1st issue it looks like this will be a legit backstory for the Knights of Ren and Snoke's turning of Ben.

I won't spoil anything, but just in the 1st issue we're getting more info in the Knights of Ren and the fall of Luke's Jedi temple, painting Ben in a much more tragic light. For the Ben/Kylo fans or people more interested in the Knights of Ren, this may be required reading.

They just released Star Wars #1 (Volume 2) this week which will focus on the time period between 'Empire and RotJ' for the next few to several years. It looks like Poe's parents may appear as secondary characters. The writers recently established that Poe's mom and dad helped build Echo Base on Hoth. Darth Vader Volume 3 will launch in February focusing on the same time period.