'Star Wars' Rollout Plan "Extremely Deliberate," Says Disney CEO

[rteetz]

The poster above made a great point about the reason Carsland happened and renovations and new attractions at the foreign parks. Attendance keeps increasing in the FL parks, so why would they add new rides? I mean of course they should for the sake of trying to make DW the best it can possibly be and always innovating, improving, and adding, but from a strict business stand point they don't need to.

Someone said the difference between DL and DW is that DL is more of a locals park, the majority of the visitors to it live near it. So if they don't ever put in new rides, those people will be less likely to keep coming as much; whereas at DW it's primarily from visitors from all over the country and world. So for people who visit once a decade they're happy with what is there b/c it's been 10 years since they've been there. It definitely makes sense.

One thing I was thinking about is with there now being a Disney Park in Europe, Hong Kong, Japan, and now China, maybe some of the foreign visitors will no longer make the trip to Orlando to come to DW b/c they have a park closer to them. Additionally, with Universal now a top notch Disney alternative and other competitors really stepping up their game, maybe just maybe park attendance will slow down. If that happened maybe DW would be forced to build new attractions.

I for one had not been to DW in many years, I visited all four parks. I loved it but also realized how much more they need to build. When I go back to Orlando, I'll stick to the MK and then go to Universal. Any trips after that will be determined by what is new. If there is enough people like me then maybe attendance won't keep mindlessly increasing every year without improvements, maybe...

Exactly attendance is up and so are profits so why add anything. But then there is universal where profits and attendance is up and they are adding big things.

You're point about DL is partially correct. Disneyland hasn't seen any new major attractions since Indy. DCA was redone because it was losing money. DL does however add entertainment and other things all the time then you have the big 60th celebration this year that will be a huge money maker for them. WDW barely celebrates anniversaries.

In terms of foreigners DLP has been open for 20+ years and those people still come to WDW as well. Brazil is a big foreign component to WDW. China is a new market basically for Disney they are not well represented in that country.

 

[dice50]

Well, I'll be upset if the upcoming Star Wars plans for DHS aren't significant. But I believe they will be. So MK just made a significant move w/ NFL, AK is making a big move w/ Avatar land, and now if DHS does what I expect w/ Star Wars, then I find it hard to complain when each park is making a significant expansion/redo over the span of a decade (w/ EPCOT to come next I would presume following AK expansion).

Sure, each of those expansions might not be what our ideal expansion would be, but they're significant.

I think what many of us are saying is that there isn't going to be a Star Wars Land at DHS. All of the "news" around it has really just been rumors based on nothing. I think we'd all be happy if they built a first class Star Wars Land and I was under the assumption as well, but now I am more convinced than not that it is not happening.

NFL - is OK, Avatar Land could be awesome (fingers crossed). What they need to do:

1. Finish Avatar Land - make it top notch, 3 main attractions
2. Build Star Wars Land & Pixar Place at DHS
3. Epcot redo - new E-ticket, redo the front of the park, put in the Ratatouille ride in France, build a Mt. Fuji bobsled ride in Japan, etc..
4. MK - Tomorrowland redo
5. AK - build an "Australia" land
6. DHS - take out the Indiana Jones show - put in a new, innovative Indiana Jones ride

What I'm saying is they should constantly be building/renovating. It's great they are doing Avatar. But while that is being built all the other parks should have their plans made, budgeted for, green-lighted, and started. When Avatarland is a year away from being done, get started on the next thing on the list. Never stop building. That is what would make most of us happy.

 

[rteetz]

Well, I'll be upset if the upcoming Star Wars plans for DHS aren't significant. But I believe they will be. So MK just made a significant move w/ NFL, AK is making a big move w/ Avatar land, and now if DHS does what I expect w/ Star Wars, then I find it hard to complain when each park is making a significant expansion/redo over the span of a decade (w/ EPCOT to come next I would presume following AK expansion).

Sure, each of those expansions might not be what our ideal expansion would be, but they're significant.

Star Wars will come to WDW but it's just when. It was supposed to start last year then this year and were still waiting and Iger keeps saying his nonsense of oh we're developing things.

NFL added a D ticket that is nice but could've been and was planned to be better butt budget cuts. A themed restaurant that is successful beyond reason. I like BOG but I don't think the food was incredible enough for me to book it 180 days in advance.

I like what they are doing with AK it's my favorite park thematically. The details in that park is incredible and I think the details won't disappoint in avatar. They also have the new night time show as well.

DHS and Epcot have nothing for the next five years (unless Disney gets a faster construction crew). Except for a new theater for soarin and track for TSMM because lines are too long. Disney could solve the lines problem by just building more attractions.

 

[dice50]

Exactly attendance is up and so are profits so why add anything. But then there is universal where profits and attendance is up and they are adding big things.

You're point about DL is partially correct. Disneyland hasn't seen any new major attractions since Indy. DCA was redone because it was losing money. DL does however add entertainment and other things all the time then you have the big 60th celebration this year that will be a huge money maker for them. WDW barely celebrates anniversaries.

In terms of foreigners DLP has been open for 20+ years and those people still come to WDW as well. Brazil is a big foreign component to WDW. China is a new market basically for Disney they are not well represented in that country.

I guess I consider DCA as a new part of DL, even if it is a different park. That's a good point though, DL itself could use new attractions. That's interesting about your point how many Europeans still visit Orlando. It seems like Brazil would make the most sense for the next international Disney Park after China is finished.

 

[rteetz]

I think what many of us are saying is that there isn't going to be a Star Wars Land at DHS. All of the "news" around it has really just been rumors based on nothing. I think we'd all be happy if they built a first class Star Wars Land and I was under the assumption as well, but now I am more convinced than not that it is not happening.

NFL - is OK, Avatar Land could be awesome (fingers crossed). What they need to do:

1. Finish Avatar Land - make it top notch, 3 main attractions
2. Build Star Wars Land & Pixar Place at DHS
3. Epcot redo - new E-ticket, redo the front of the park, put in the Ratatouille ride in France, build a Mt. Fuji bobsled ride in Japan, etc..
4. MK - Tomorrowland redo
5. AK - build an "Australia" land
6. DHS - take out the Indiana Jones show - put in a new, innovative Indiana Jones ride

What I'm saying is they should constantly be building/renovating. It's great they are doing Avatar. But while that is being built all the other parks should have their plans made, budgeted for, green-lighted, and started. When Avatarland is a year away from being done, get started on the next thing on the list. Never stop building. That is what would make most of us happy.

Well the rumors have come from insiders with a strong background. Disney of course just keep pushing things off. I think we will see a Star Wars land its just years away. They will probably sell it as their new thing for the WDW 50th in 2021.

1. Avatar will have two rides for sure but a third attraction is rumored just not sure what it is.
2. Pixar place is supposed to be mostly Toy story attractions.
3. nothing is in the works for epcot except for a new soarin film.
4. I'd love that but unlikely for the next decade at least.
5. Would love this as well but unlikely again.
6. again unlikely.

Universal is constantly building and will be renovating soon.

 

[rteetz]

I guess I consider DCA as a new part of DL, even if it is a different park. That's a good point though, DL itself could use new attractions. That's interesting about your point how many Europeans still visit Orlando. It seems like Brazil would make the most sense for the next international Disney Park after China is finished.

Brazil was rumored for a while but their economy isn't very great and that would stop a large influx of people from comng to WDW. HKDL is supposedly the next place to get a new park.

 

[ceriously]

I'm just hoping DHS gets a Star Wars themed Bathroom

 

[Josh Hendy]

Well, I'll be upset if the upcoming Star Wars plans for DHS aren't significant. But I believe they will be. So MK just made a significant move w/ NFL, AK is making a big move w/ Avatar land, and now if DHS does what I expect w/ Star Wars, then I find it hard to complain when each park is making a significant expansion/redo over the span of a decade (w/ EPCOT to come next I would presume following AK expansion).

Sure, each of those expansions might not be what our ideal expansion would be, but they're significant.

There's some dispute over whether NFL was significant ... "double-dumbo, a slow dark ride and a kiddie coaster" as someone put it.

AK is making a great and overdue move with Avatar but when you compare oranges to oranges, it is so many miles behind Busch Gardens Tampa in terms of being a "finished" 1st class park with an animal theme that it's not even funny. And Busch Gardens keeping adding another headliner coaster every 3 years or so. At AK it's what, every 10 years? It'll never catch up. It's a discount park that nobody would visit for $100, it's strictly a case of "the extra days on our passes cost $50 so let's do AK". And I say this as someone who loves AK and who always visits it (if we have multiday passes).

And the big debate on this thread is, at least in my mind ... WHY do you expect a Star Wars presence at DHS that is either (a) large and impressive or (b) timely? Iger's statements are so wooly that when coupled with the very slow and underwhelming way that the parks have been upgraded over the last 10 years plus, it looks like the same pattern will hold for the next several years at least.

That pattern is: (1) pump up expectations with fairly vague statements about "big things coming" (2) Do nothing and say nothing, letting the air bleed out of the expectations very slowly over the next 3 years, so slowly that the average Disney fan barely remembers what they were so excited about. (3) Quietly close down attractions which are just too old, lame and expensive to operate. (4) Make fairly minor updates with the longest possible delays in capital spending ... focusing on "people eating" features to handle the largest possible crowds in the park with the least amount of design work and steel/concrete.

The pattern will only be broken if a fairly sharp surge of guests away from DHS, AK and Epcot takes place ... then you might see rumors of a "code red" meeting of the big chiefs followed shortly by concept art, building permits, walls and bulldozers. Short of that I don't think that any great expectations are justified.

EDIT - The pattern will only be broken if a fairly sharp surge of guests AWAY FROM DVC SALES CENTERS.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

You tried to downplay the meaningfulness of the earnings of Disney movies (or in Avatar's case, Disney-affiliated). I read enough on here to see that your "different perspective" consists wholly of dumping on every decision anyone at Disney corporate makes. So you have to make sure you say those other Disney movies aren't really as great as their box office indicates, and preemptively say the same about the upcoming Star Wars. If anyone else made your post, I wouldn't read that far into it, but you've extolled your obsessive anti-corporate Disney attitude on here consistently enough to make it easy to recognize what you're doing.

First, can you tell me what I'm Thinking right now?

Second... Read what you wrote: you used "you" or a variant 6 times...

I like to play so it's no big deal - but you passed the line as far as these things go.

So...back to my take on box office receipts that was "anti-Disney" while having nothing to do with Disney at the same time...

It so happens avengers was marvel studios and frozen is Disney animation studios...

Those were relevant examples...if it had been the Harry potter series or transformers...I would have said EXACTLY the same thing.

The point is that it's dangerous to point to box office bloat as an absolute determining factor of:
A. Quality
B. cultural impact
C. Validation as it pertains to themeparks.

My one "antidisney corporatist" agenda theme that has been -also with credit where credit is due - is the management of and I feel an embarassing dangerous approach to the WAlt Disney World Resort - Lake Buena Vista Florida.

I have as much experience and patronage as anyone, lb for lb, frankly... And I'm not sure in what language I need a defense of the opinions and extrapolation from past and current trends/events.

So...other than the premise being wrong... And other than the fact that is was an opinion that wasnt tied to "I hate Disney"...

We're good.

It's actually how comical how I'm personified as a Disney hater and how that is not even close to real Life.

But I don't make excuses for them and they don't need me to defend them... And would be the first to say it.

I do give them credit...mostly for what they've built and an impressive display of savvy in IP over the last years...

Did you know that I'm very supportive of the implementation and practical effects to customers of the magic bands? Can you believe that?!? It's in there.

But that is not carte Blanche on what the things were meant for and where they MAY take them.

But if the mental fortitude is not out there to deal with the idea that it's not all dreams and magic... And they still want your wallet... That's where the apology ends.

If people can't tune it out to think what they want on vacation or their perception of their employment at Disney, patronage of Disney, stock in Disney, real estate interest in Disney (and I am or have been all those things...)...my silence or Pom poms will do nothing to benefit them.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Well, I'll be upset if the upcoming Star Wars plans for DHS aren't significant. But I believe they will be. So MK just made a significant move w/ NFL, AK is making a big move w/ Avatar land, and now if DHS does what I expect w/ Star Wars, then I find it hard to complain when each park is making a significant expansion/redo over the span of a decade (w/ EPCOT to come next I would presume following AK expansion).

Sure, each of those expansions might not be what our ideal expansion would be, but they're significant.

If I were just sticking to the facts...no opinions...

I would point out that after nearly 3 years of ownership and large closures at studios...

There are currently no documented plans for anything Star Wars in wdw.

There are none. That is JUST the facts.

Why is this important? Because you are giving them now pre-emptive credit for something that has not been done.

They could do a "science of Star Wars" with minor distractions in innoventions and everybody be dissapointed of neutral on it...and bob Iger still wouldn't have lied to anybody.

They get far too much credit for non-committal these days...

But you know - I hate Disney so I invented that

 

[DDLand]

The longer it goes on... The less likely it is...

We are 6 months from the start of a 5 movie ( for starters) flurry of one of the biggest pop culture franchise in history...AND it's a reclamation project.

If you needed a reason to build for cross promotional purposes...that is a 85 mph fastball with no cut across the fat part of the dish...

3 years later... Here we are. Nothing

A crate at a geek convention with the code name of return of the Jedi and a box of oranges next to it...

That's the substance. They have moved on NOTHING.

And the "these things take time" excuses are wearing thin.

Very thin. Plenty of things are off the drawing boards and going up in Paris, china, and Japan right now.

So is it all just a screen?

Yeah...they're starting to make it look bad...even for a noted skeptic like me.

It now stands on it's "merits". My sourpussing isn't the "bad" thing anymore.

Officially... I never have bought the Star Wars land. I hope I'm 1000% wrong...but that's the position.

The Lucas merger was announced 2 days after hurricane sandy ripped up the eastern seaboard and flooded out half of my greater Tri state area...and I remember being excited, thinking there would be real park development, and then disregarding it in the same thought sequence. Have not changed one bit since.

Why? Because we had Carsland as an example. It wa built because NO ONE WAS GOING...same with the work in Paris and Hong Kong.

It's our fault...mine...yours.. Everyone who books a room and buys the tickets. Rides are "bad for business" in Florida.


SORRY...MISTAKE MULTIQUOTE AT THE TOP

I think Disney is taking an interesting approach to Hollywood Studios in particular. They're not in a serious rush, but the fact they'd be willing to drop 1 billion on a park they're satisfied with doesn't make sense whatsoever.

I think they're asking the tough questions, why does the park just a few miles up World Drive have fast approaching twice the attendance? To me their actions appear to be pointing at two critical reasons they've found:
1) Magic Kingdom is known by everyone as the place to bring girls. It's the closest thing to a consumer pilgrimage there is. None of the other Disney Parks have anything near the brand recognition besides Disneyland itself.
2) People don't find a great value in their visits due to limited attraction count.

Star Wars and Pixar (maybe Indy too) are going to solve those problems. If Disney can get every boy in this nation to beg to go to DHS like girls do with MK, they've found the Holy Grail of theme parks. If people take a couple days at Orlando they may just buy a one day ticket to MK, Disney wants people buying two days.

Some may say it's nearly impossible to replicate a true MK level success. Disney has tried over and over to do just that. Only one has ever come close, TDS. Can it be done? DHS has nearly all the right ingredients for success, draws for boys, draws for families, some great IP. What they don't have have is that incredible name recognition and nostalgic love. Those are two big problems. We'll see if they can meet them.

Still with all the upside potential, perhaps millions in new attendance, why haven't they gone into shovel ready? This project has taken the back burner to everything from Paris, HKDL, Shanghai (still not buying that it's a coincidence around the same time Iger was slowing the Star Wars development Shanghai got an extra 800 million). Because DHS isn't losing accountable money, so it looks fine on the balance sheet. If DHS were to continue on this path right now? They're missing out on millions in potential revenue. That's something more abstract, but Disney realizes this is happening.

They're not in a hurry, but they're not satisfied either.

With that said, I think the stars (no pun intended) are aligning for construction of something at DHS later this year and into the next. We have construction ramp down at the MK, Disney Springs, Epcot, and DAK all happening around the early 2016 to 2017 range. Have they announced anything that will open past 2018? I can't think of anything big right now. What does that mean? A massive amount of labor and contractors available to begin work on DHS. Also we have to look at decreasing costs after Shanghai Disney is done.

Capital and labor. Perfect.

Now will it be spectacular? I think so. Why? Because Iger's predecessor was a man who would often be at the cusp of greatness and then chicken out of excellent execution. He got burned over and over again because he was afraid to spend money. Iger seems to be cautious with spending money, but when they do they've got to do it right the first time.

Star Wars is one of the key parts of his legacy. There's no way he's not going to give it the justice it deserves.

 

[rteetz]

There's some dispute over whether NFL was significant ... "double-dumbo, a slow dark ride and a kiddie coaster" as someone put it.

AK is making a great and overdue move with Avatar but when you compare oranges to oranges, it is so many miles behind Busch Gardens Tampa in terms of being a "finished" 1st class park with an animal theme that it's not even funny. And Busch Gardens keeping adding another headliner coaster every 3 years or so. At AK it's what, every 10 years? It'll never catch up. It's a discount park that nobody would visit for $100, it's strictly a case of "the extra days on our passes cost $50 so let's do AK". And I say this as someone who loves AK and who always visits it (if we have multiday passes).

And the big debate on this thread is, at least in my mind ... WHY do you expect a Star Wars presence at DHS that is either (a) large and impressive or (b) timely? Iger's statements are so wooly that when coupled with the very slow and underwhelming way that the parks have been upgraded over the last 10 years plus, it looks like the same pattern will hold for the next several years at least.

That pattern is: (1) pump up expectations with fairly vague statements about "big things coming" (2) Do nothing and say nothing, letting the air bleed out of the expectations very slowly over the next 3 years, so slowly that the average Disney fan barely remembers what they were so excited about. (3) Quietly close down attractions which are just too old, lame and expensive to operate. (4) Make fairly minor updates with the longest possible delays in capital spending ... focusing on "people eating" features to handle the largest possible crowds in the park with the least amount of design work and steel/concrete.

The pattern will only be broken if a fairly sharp surge of guests away from DHS, AK and Epcot takes place ... then you might see rumors of a "code red" meeting of the big chiefs followed shortly by concept art, building permits, walls and bulldozers. Short of that I don't think that any great expectations are justified.

EDIT - The pattern will only be broken if a fairly sharp surge of guests AWAY FROM DVC SALES CENTERS.

In terms of AK in my opinion it's the best theme park in the U.S. With its details. I ace never been to Busch gardens and they may be ahead of Disney in terms of attractions or animals but I doubt they beat Disney in the details.

I agree with your pattern. I just wish that wasn't the pattern.

 

[ceriously]

The pattern will only be broken if a fairly sharp surge of guests away from DHS, AK and Epcot takes place ... then you might see rumors of a "code red" meeting of the big chiefs followed shortly by concept art, building permits, walls and bulldozers. Short of that I don't think that any great expectations are justified.

I think we're seeing this now. Every thread I read about the crowded parks is about MK. I think attendance is slowly declining in the other parks. I also wonder if Avatarland will just cause a temporary uptick in attendance instead of the long term increases expected by Disney.

 

[rteetz]

I think we're seeing this now. Every thread I read about the crowded parks is about MK. I think attendance is slowly declining in the other parks. I also wonder if Avatarland will just cause a temporary uptick in attendance instead of the long term increases expected by Disney.

Epcot always gains during festival time. If they didn't have those festivals they would lose attendance. I think we will see a small long term attendance increase at AK but the first year or two will be large increases.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think Disney is taking an interesting approach to Hollywood Studios in particular. They're not in a serious rush, but the fact they'd be willing to drop 1 billion on a park they're satisfied with doesn't make sense whatsoever.

I think they're asking the tough questions, why does the park just a few miles up World Drive have fast approaching twice the attendance? To me their actions appear to be pointing at two critical reasons they've found:
1) Magic Kingdom is known by everyone as the place to bring girls. It's the closest thing to a consumer pilgrimage there is. None of the other Disney Parks have anything near the brand recognition besides Disneyland itself.
2) People don't find a great value in their visits due to limited attraction count.

Star Wars and Pixar (maybe Indy too) are going to solve those problems. If Disney can get every boy in this nation to beg to go to DHS like girls do with MK, they've found the Holy Grail of theme parks. If people take a couple days at Orlando they may just buy a one day ticket to MK, Disney wants people buying two days.

Some may say it's nearly impossible to replicate a true MK level success. Disney has tried over and over to do just that. Only one has ever come close, TDS. Can it be done? DHS has nearly all the right ingredients for success, draws for boys, draws for families, some great IP. What they don't have have is that incredible name recognition and nostalgic love. Those are two big problems. We'll see if they can meet them.

Still with all the upside potential, perhaps millions in new attendance, why haven't they gone into shovel ready? This project has taken the back burner to everything from Paris, HKDL, Shanghai (still not buying that it's a coincidence around the same time Iger was slowing the Star Wars development Shanghai got an extra 800 million). Because DHS isn't losing accountable money, so it looks fine on the balance sheet. If DHS were to continue on this path right now? They're missing out on millions in potential revenue. That's something more abstract, but Disney realizes this is happening.

They're not in a hurry, but they're not satisfied either.

With that said, I think the stars (no pun intended) are aligning for construction of something at DHS later this year and into the next. We have construction ramp down at the MK, Disney Springs, Epcot, and DAK all happening around the early 2016 to 2017 range. Have they announced anything that will open past 2018? I can't think of anything big right now. What does that mean? A massive amount of labor and contractors available to begin work on DHS. Also we have to look at decreasing costs after Shanghai Disney is done.

Capital and labor. Perfect.

Now will it be spectacular? I think so. Why? Because Iger's predecessor was a man who would often be at the cusp of greatness and then chicken out of excellent execution. He got burned over and over again because he was afraid to spend money. Iger seems to be cautious with spending money, but when they do they've got to do it right the first time.

Star Wars is one of the key parts of his legacy. There's no way he's not going to give it the justice it deserves.

Now...it's rare that I almost completely agree with what you're saying...but here I do.

Somebody musta put me in a good mood

But... Where I differ is in thinking that they need rides to Accomplish what the want in Florida. If anything the last 10 years has shown... Is that they actually don't need the rides anymore to sell the merchandise in the ride dump shops. It's an absolute horrible development for the consumer. Their overall attendance has chugged along past 50 mil...including tons of frequent visitors due in large point to their incredibly successful timeshare wing and expanding travel habits in society...but they have not added much since 2000. I'm sorry... But whatever list you come up with is minor compared to what existed in 1999. That isn't even taking into account the philosophy of Disney parks (60 years strong) and what that looks like.

The other thing about Iger not want to be a "chicken" like Eisner...

You might, respectfully, be on the wrong Side of the fence.

Eisner lost it - no dispute - but wdw is nowhere anywhere close to what it is without Eisner, wells, and Roy E...

When the company was reorganized and barely solvent...starting around 1986...they started dumping massive amounts of money (borrowed...unlike today with mcducks money bin) into Florida in an incredible gamble. They were guessing as to how they could shape the travel - at the time American travel resembled the habits of the 60's more than it does today. Most Americans had never been on a plane and vacationing was much more regional...very few limits now.

They gambled and won... Creating a massive, arduously planned and built behemoth. Current board would even think of tolerating the amount spent on infrastructure now...let alone build it.

Iger has inherited a toy... A gift really. And now he does have to decide what the long term value is: status quo profit center or potential for more legacy?

In a way... Two of Disney's biggest profit banks - wdw and espn - are the most stale and need a jolt - lest they trip and fall off a cliff.

 

[DDLand]

The big problem with DHS is the lack of a park footprint that can handle a major expansion. It was never designed for heavy traffic due to the studio presence and an overhaul will be a major expense.

Interesting, but I don't think this is a substantial issue. The buildings can actually be an asset as in the case of TSMM they're able to reuse the buildings for new purposes. I'd say backlot tour is an example of a low density attraction that takes up so much space and actually serves few. Look towards Rivers of America as another attraction like that. I think it can be a pretty speedy in demolition and turn around.

 

[ceriously]

If I were just sticking to the facts...no opinions...

I would point out that after nearly 3 years of ownership and large closures at studios...

There are currently no documented plans for anything Star Wars in wdw.

There are none. That is JUST the facts.

Why is this important? Because you are giving them now pre-emptive credit for something that has not been done.

They could do a "science of Star Wars" with minor distractions in innoventions and everybody be dissapointed of neutral on it...and bob Iger still wouldn't have lied to anybody.

They get far too much credit for non-committal these days...

But you know - I hate Disney so I invented that

Totally agree. I am amazed that a lot of people assume a Star Wars land will be created at DHS, but NOTHING has happened and NOTHING has been announced. All they have done at DHS is remove the hat, close back lot tour, and who wants to be a star. Nothing else has happened or been announced.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think we're seeing this now. Every thread I read about the crowded parks is about MK. I think attendance is slowly declining in the other parks. I also wonder if Avatarland will just cause a temporary uptick in attendance instead of the long term increases expected by Disney.

Respectfully... We're seeing the exact opposite. People are "jumping into the sardine can"... So to speak. Going more in higher numbers regardless of a comparitive lack of new offerings within the ticket price.

Magic kingdom is rising...EPCOT and MGM are basically flat or slightly up...

That not how we're gonna see change. DCA saw a sharp drop in attendance for years before they got their response. The locals had enough and held the line.

MGM is having the same foot traffic with less things to operate...is that a "bad thing" for Disney? Hell no.

And even if the truth at EPCOT is that their numbers are supported by festivals...that's good for them too. Draw more sales out of each employee during peak periods...strip it down to a skeleton crew when it's slow.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

And I also usually advise at this point in the discussion that Disney's goal probably is not to have 4 parks with equal attendance...15-20 mil each. There are tons of advantages - by design - to it not being that way.

 

[ceriously]

Respectfully... We're seeing the exact opposite. People are "jumping into the sardine can"... So to speak. Going more in higher numbers regardless of a comparitive lack of new offerings within the ticket price.

Magic kingdom is rising...EPCOT and MGM are basically flat or slightly up...

That not how we're gonna see change. DCA saw a sharp drop in attendance for years before they got their response. The locals had enough and held the line.

MGM is not having the same foot traffic with less things to operate...is that a "bad thing" for Disney? Hell no.

And even if the truth at EPCOT is that their numbers are supported by festivals...that's good for them too. Draw more sales out of each employee during peak periods...strip it down to a skeleton crew when it's slow.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

And I also usually advise at this point in the discussion that Disney's goal probably is not to have 4 parks with equal attendance...15-20 mil each. There are tons of advantages - by design - to it not being that way.

I think you misread my post. I said attendance at MK was increasing, but at the other parks kit was slowly declining.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Interesting, but I don't think this is a substantial issue. The buildings can actually be an asset as in the case of TSMM they're able to reuse the buildings for new purposes. I'd say backlot tour is an example of a low density attraction that takes up so much space and actually serves few. Look towards Rivers of America as another attraction like that. I think it can be a pretty speedy in demolition and turn around.

Omg...it's a massive issue. Studios has no where near the amount of guest space capacity or service space that the other three do. Even if they knock down all of the studio buildings.

That may be why they haven't pulled the tigger on a Star Wars Mecca...the ancillary costs could be just too high for things like drainage and asphalt alterations...

Or the best support to one of my theories...that MGM will always be the little brother... For a variety of reasons.