Spitting Mad at DVC

[crisi]

I promised my Girl Scouts a trip to Hilton Head next summer. They've been selling cookies to cover it for years, but I'm donating the points. I KNOW HH can be a tough reservation to get in the Summer at seven months, and since I had promised, I rented from a HH owner several months ago. Then I rented out my BWV points to cover the cost. I used David, so I had a spread to cover and had to rent more points than the HHI vacation cost to cover all the costs, but it meant I didn't need to do any work - had I been willing to do the footwork, I could have done it with no spread.

I'm not a huge fan of the timeshare nature of DVC, if I weren't happy to take the majority of my trips at our home resort booking eleven months out, it would be a bad deal for us - I believe cash is far more flexible and I really don't like to put a lot of effort into getting a room. But I'm willing to work the system once in a while to get what I want, its the nature of timeshares. Especially since I made a promise, it was my responsibility to make sure I understood what I needed to do to keep that promise.

What you are asking for is units members aren't entitled to. We don't own them and can't use them any more than I can just go use my neighbor's car. The units that members are entitled to have already been booked. That is the nature of timeshares.

 

[crisi]

Here is another thing that will make you happier. Recognize that Disney stopped a while ago trying to "exceed expectations" for everyone all the time. They realized they can't do it. With the internet, everyone expects magic pixie dust to float down from the sky. And they expect it to float down from the sky at an affordable price. The expectations people have - a magical moment with Cinderella, an incredible view out their window, happy smiling families - when the reality is a Cinderella line 45 minutes long with a 45 second picture taking opportunity, a view of the parking lot - the magical view is $400 a night - and a meltdown of epic proportions with tired kids and a stretched wallet - Disney can't meet the expectations that are out there - that they help create through their own marketing - much less exceed them. There are simply too many customers with high expectations for them to exceed them - and still remain a going concern.

 

[Nabas]

I can fault Disney for many things but not this one. This is not a "hidden" issue. That Disney can rent out the percentage of the units/reservation time for which it still has ownership and that such inventory is not available for DVC members to reserve on points is something that has been explained in the public offering documents/contracts that every new purchaser from Disney has gotten since DVC first went on sale in the early 1990s. And yes, this is very typical of other timeshares.

I agree with you but Disney is not completely innocent either.

Disney often pulls undeclared inventory to help first-time buyers make their first DVC reservation.

Customer: "I really am considering buying DVC but only if I can book a week at the Beach Club Villas in 2 months."

Guide: "Please give me a moment while I look into that."

Guide: "No problem, if you sign today, we can book that room for you."

Customer: "Great, where do I sign?"

Many buyers are left with the impression that booking desireable rooms on short notice is easy.

 

[bakerworld]

DD wanted July in HHI - didn't even try to wait for 7-month. Rented the points. Trouble is I was suppose to take the same amount of points and rent them to re-coup the $$ but I used them

We tell all our children that flexibility is the key - they can't give hard and fast anything: dates, location, etc.

Also sounds to me like if the first day is always unavailable that someone is 'walking' so the 'offender' is a fellow DVC member - not DVC/DVD

 

[luckyman_apd]

I think the OP is very confused as to how DVC points work. Lets say there are 2 buildings at a resort......and they decide that it takes 1,000,000 points to book that resort for the year. Each resort is 500,000 points. Let's say they only have 500,000 points sold. That would mean only 1 of the buildings is available to the members that bought points at that resort (or in the system). The other building is COMPLETELY owned by them, not us and they can rent it out for what ever they want. They OWN it, not the Timeshare members. Until Aulani is sold out or close to it....there very likely will be a good portion of rooms that DVD owns themselves that aren't available for points.

You can't say if there are rooms available they should let us use points to book them! No, it doesn't work like that. Especially in a place like Hawaii in a popular tourist time. They would be giving something away for nothing (well technically no as those points would be valid to book cash for them at a WDW resort....but not the same $ value as Hawaii).

GFV just opened. Let's say that only 1/4 of the points have been sold.....that means they only have to declare 1/4 of the rooms available to book. They are not just going to let the other rooms sit empty while they wait to sell those points.....they are going to make them available for cash bookings. The legality of it IS the practicality of it. There is no deception here. Nothing immoral or unethical about it.

 

[Breyean]

I agree with you but Disney is not completely innocent either.

Disney often pulls undeclared inventory to help first-time buyers make their first DVC reservation.

Customer: "I really am considering buying DVC but only if I can book a week at the Beach Club Villas in 2 months."

Guide: "Please give me a moment while I look into that."

Guide: "No problem, if you sign today, we can book that room for you."

Customer: "Great, where do I sign?"

Many buyers are left with the impression that booking desireable rooms on short notice is easy.

In the example you cite, which does happen all the time, it's nothing more than a sales tool guides use to close the deal.

The buyers are responsible for knowing/learning this is not the norm. If they don't realize it, they haven't done their research and if they expect this to be how DVC always works, they will be disappointed.

 

[jerseyduke]

Without getting into whether you should be mad, who is right, etc, etc...

Keep hope. If Day 1 is always unavailable, it sounds like people are walking reservations. Use the waitlist and check the member site like crazy.

Also, and I am not sure if you can do this or not....can you book night 1 with cash, and use that to book 2-7 with points? (then hope wl comes thru and switch night 1?)

 

[Minniesgal]

If the property is built as, sold as, and touted as a DVC property, then how do they think they are creating goodwill among their members by saying "oh gosh, sorry but you can't have THOSE ROOMS - even though they are the SAME ROOMS" Realize they are two different entities but if there are DVC type rooms available, DVC members should have the right to book them. There's no reasonable or logical excuse to the contrary

Except those rooms available for cash are not owned by DVC owners so they are not part of the inventory available to owners.

Aulani is pretty much impossible to book in June at 7 months, it opens up more later in the year October, November. June is pretty much going to be owners only.

 

[tjkraz]

Keep hope. If Day 1 is always unavailable, it sounds like people are walking reservations. Use the waitlist and check the member site like crazy.

I think it sounds more like availability is very limited and those with the quickest fingers right at 8am are booking whatever remains.

There's absolutely no way of knowing whether or not people are "walking" reservations. Summer has proven to be very popular at Aulani.

Of course, there WILL be cancellations so getting on the wait list is always advisable.

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

I guess what OP and others want is our dues to subsidize this. After all we should all pay more to upkeep units that are not sold or provide the cash to pay DCL for my cruise. B


I am sorry but I don't want that fee increase

 

[rstackjd]

No, I don't want dues to subsidize anything.

I get the rules and structure. Fine, we are stuck with that.

An old friend of mine was in the banking industry. The bank decided to try agricultural lending. They lent a bunch of money to a rancher and took as collateral a number of "cows". Of course the rancher stops paying. The banker goes to the farm to repossess the cows and the farmer says - you don't have any cows. The banker says "but there must be 100 cows in that pen right there" And the farmer says (this is true) "those are my cows, yours all died" The banker says "how do you know mine are the ones that died, and the farmer says "how do you know they aren't"

I feel like the banker - all those cows, but none of them are mine. It's not a question of the legal rights at this point - its the perception.

I'd say we are beating a dead horse so lets just close this one down. Sorry if I offended anyone.

 

[bumbershoot]

Been promising my son and future DIL that we would give them a week at Aulani for their wedding present/ honeymoon. 7 month window opened yesterday - can't book because the 1st day (6/19) not available.

Timeshares can be difficult.

Ages ago my stepdad owned RCI and my mom promised me she would book at the RCI resort in Ireland for my post-grad school trip. Started trying at upwards of a year out and NEVER got a room. She was just as surprised as you were, but that was mainly because she wasn't used to timeshare stuff. Not sure if stepdad was surprised.

She ended up booking us an Aer Lingus B&B&drive package to make good on her promise. That trip was just as important to me at that time as, later on, my honeymoon was (and I remember more of it, LOL), and she knew that. It was lovely of her.

Guide: "No problem, if you sign today, we can book that room for you."

Customer: "Great, where do I sign?"

Many buyers are left with the impression that booking desireable rooms on short notice is easy.

Thankfully my guide was crystal clear that the FIRST reservation could get some strings pulled, and ONLY if I called him directly, but future reservations would be solely up to me.

 

[wdrl]

There is another factor that comes into play that can affect availability: Exchanges. If an Aulani owner decides to exchange their DVC points for a Disney cruise, Adventure by Disney, RCI, etc., then Disney has to recover the cost of the exchange by renting out rooms for cash to the general public. It can't turn around and let another DVC member use points to book those rooms.

I don't have any data on the percentage of Aulani that has been declared for the DVC inventory. However, for the Villas at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort and Spa only 75.84% of the resort has been declared for the DVC inventory. That means that every day about one-fourth of VGF's villas cannot be booked by members using points. Instead, those villas can only be booked by the general public using cash.

Aulani has only been open since August 29, 2011, so its a little early to try to figure out the peak demand periods for this resort. However, in both 2012 and 2013 it appeared that June was a heavy demand period. I suspect there are a couple factors that might explain the strong popularity for June. First, June is the start of summer vacation time for many families, so lots of families can travel during that time. And second, in Aulani's point chart, much of June is in the cheaper Choice season. The Magic season, which usually starts in late June, is about 15-20% higher than the Choice season. I think a lot of DVC members try to book Aulani during the cheaper season.

Good luck in getting what you want at Aulani. Its a great resort!

 

[crisi]

Aulani is also a mixed use resort. Half the resort is hotel rooms and hotel suites, not villas. So when you see all those rooms available for cash at Aulani, you might be looking at the hotel side, not the villas.

 

[TagsMissy]

I understand the LEGAL distinctions - my problem is the practical issue - DVC and DVD are not creating any good will with that kind of behavior. I'm pretty sure when they were selling us on all the good things we get as DVC members, they never said "of course it's possible that there will be rooms available to pay for but that won't be available to you on points"

As I said - I love Disney and DVC (but not today) so I just want to whine. I know they won't change, and I know I won't quit, but they are not playing fair by their Members.

I hate to say it but they are honouring exactly what you signed on the dotted line you agreed to so there's no good will creation they need to worry about. I am sorry you cannot get the villa you want/need but you never should have promised anything until you had it. June is a very hard time to book Aulani. Is it possible for your Son and future DIL to have a delayed honeymoon if they really want to go to Aulani?

 

[Nabas]

In the example you cite, which does happen all the time, it's nothing more than a sales tool guides use to close the deal.

The buyers are responsible for knowing/learning this is not the norm. If they don't realize it, they haven't done their research and if they expect this to be how DVC always works, they will be disappointed.

Sure but consider ...

After they help book a week at BCV in 2 months, how many guides say:

"By the way, you'll have a snowball's chance in hell of ever being able to book a week at Beach Club Villas two months in advance?"



P.S. Please note that I'm agreeing with you but only noting that a DVC guide is ultimately a salesperson who is putting food on a table based on a commission. When anyone is placed in that position, there's a temptation to leave out important details that could jeopardize the sale.

 

[gdrj]

Totally Agree! I was going to make similar point. To take it to an extreme ( I realize its not the same), getting mad at DVC about units not part of the inventory is like getting mad at Marriott because they are sold out but the Holiday Inn is available.

On a side note thinking about inventory vs. units sold, I'm assuming that is what make GFV a tough booking or how BLT was but as units sold it became a bit easier to get on 7 months.

I think the OP is very confused as to how DVC points work. Lets say there are 2 buildings at a resort......and they decide that it takes 1,000,000 points to book that resort for the year. Each resort is 500,000 points. Let's say they only have 500,000 points sold. That would mean only 1 of the buildings is available to the members that bought points at that resort (or in the system). The other building is COMPLETELY owned by them, not us and they can rent it out for what ever they want. They OWN it, not the Timeshare members. Until Aulani is sold out or close to it....there very likely will be a good portion of rooms that DVD owns themselves that aren't available for points.

You can't say if there are rooms available they should let us use points to book them! No, it doesn't work like that. Especially in a place like Hawaii in a popular tourist time. They would be giving something away for nothing (well technically no as those points would be valid to book cash for them at a WDW resort....but not the same $ value as Hawaii).

GFV just opened. Let's say that only 1/4 of the points have been sold.....that means they only have to declare 1/4 of the rooms available to book. They are not just going to let the other rooms sit empty while they wait to sell those points.....they are going to make them available for cash bookings. The legality of it IS the practicality of it. There is no deception here. Nothing immoral or unethical about it.

 

[tjkraz]

...The banker says "how do you know mine are the ones that died, and the farmer says "how do you know they aren't"

I feel like the banker - all those cows, but none of them are mine. It's not a question of the legal rights at this point - its the perception.

I'm quite sure that DVC has accurate accounting for all declared and undeclared villas, and can vouch for the fact that owners are receiving the access they are supposed to receive. (To believe otherwise implies that Disney is actively defrauding owners. Let's not go down that road.)

I think most of us are very sympathetic to your circumstances. We've all been there. Whether booking at seven months, one month or somewhere in between, we've all had that experience of not being able to book a desired resort/view/villa size.

But I think you're going to be disappointed in the long run if you expect Disney to sacrifice significant dollars to change some owners' perceptions.

 

[Dean]

Been promising my son and future DIL that we would give them a week at Aulani for their wedding present/ honeymoon. 7 month window opened yesterday - can't book because the 1st day (6/19) not available. Try this morning first thing, can't book - first day (6/20) not available. Trying to call MS and the system is down.

THEN just for grins I go to see if I could book a studio for cash via Disney reservations. GUESS WHAT! If I want to PAY for the rooms I can get all 7 days in just about any catagory I want.

What kind of BS is that? A DVC MEMBER can't get a room there because they are all "full" but if I want to pay cash I can?

I can't wait to get through to DVC and see how they try to explain away that one.

I love Disney and DVC, but I'm really getting tired of DVC MEMBERS being treated like second class citizens. It sure seems we got much better customer service from Disney before we invest $20K in DVC.

Thanks for letting me vent.

IMO you have insufficient understanding of what you own and unreasonable expectations. You're trying to exchange into a resort you do now own at and you're upset you can't get a room that no one else can get either right now using points. Wait list what you want and keep trying. There's no reason to be upset, mad or to give anyone a piece of your mind. The only reasonable emotions are disappointment and resolve to maximize your chances of getting what you want for them. I'd suggest a cash reservation as a backup. In addition to the WL, keep checking and take any days you can get along the way.

 

[Dean]

I'm quite sure that DVC has accurate accounting for all declared and undeclared villas, and can vouch for the fact that owners are receiving the access they are supposed to receive. (To believe otherwise implies that Disney is actively defrauding owners. Let's not go down that road.)

I think most of us are very sympathetic to your circumstances. We've all been there. Whether booking at seven months, one month or somewhere in between, we've all had that experience of not being able to book a desired resort/view/villa size.

But I think you're going to be disappointed in the long run if you expect Disney to sacrifice significant dollars to change some owners' perceptions.

Actually while in actives sales there is always a slight amount of extra inventory that's unsold but available for booking by the members.