Spending at Disney increasing

[minnie-apple-mouse]

While it may seem ironic (and I totally agree), if ONE of those factors were gone, it could make a huge difference.

I don't want to pay a huge amount of money to wait and fight a crowd. If I am going to pay a huge amount of money, I don't want to wait. If I have to wait, I don't want to pay a huge amount of money. Of course it's all relative, to be sure.

One of 2 factors?

So drop the price-crowds will increase.

Raise the price-crowds will decrease.

Pick one.

I will also agree with Andrew015 that there could be some attention given to other parks to "Smooth" out the crowds a bit. For many only MK is an "All Day" park where AK, DHS and Epcot are half (or less) day parks. I personally can spend a full day at pretty much each park and be content. Again, part of this is a result of the crowds and lines.

Pretty sure they are working on that.

That being said, not sure what you mean by "Hardly too crowded".

You lost me here. Did I say that?

If I have to wait an hour to ride most rides, or I have to park myself on a curb 2 hours before a parade or fireworks show just to get an "OKAY" spot, then it's too crowded for my liking.

Hence the dilemma.

 

[Andrew015]

Whether it's FP+ or not, it's still more than what I prefer. I'd much rather wait in one line for 90 minutes and be able to walk on others in 10 then to have to wait in ALL lines for 45 minutes (or more)

No dispute there.

I will add, however, that our experience was pretty much similar prior to FP+ as well. Very few rides/attractions were "Walk-on" type of rides.

Perhaps walk-on was a bit of an overstatement, but generally speaking, many rides that were previously 5-15 minute waits prior to FP+ have now become consistent 20-40 minute standby waits. Moral of the story, it's not about "too many people". Rather, it's how Disney has decided to spread the existing crowds around.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

You're mincing words. The argument isn't "Disney has become too expensive, so no one's going". Rather, the argument is Disney has become too expensive for certain demographics.

An argument for some. I still see options for middle class. A lot of middle class stayed deluxe. Now its mods or DVC. Some stayed mods-now value. But mostly those that budget a WDW trip will still go-no matter what they are labeled.

Lastly-who (you?) decides what demographics are/should be targeted? Why leave out the lower class?

Where should pricing be set to keep the gates/hotels at an enjoyable level?

 

[rteetz]

Raise the price-crowds will decrease.

Only problem is that hasn't happened. They have risen the prices yet crowds continue to increase.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Only problem is that hasn't happened. They have risen the prices yet crowds continue to increase.

Thank you.

And what do you think lowering them or leaving them flat since 2005 would do or have done?

 

[rteetz]

Perhaps walk-on was a bit of an overstatement, but generally speaking, many rides that were previously 5-15 minute waits prior to FP+ have now become consistent 20-40 minute standby waits. Moral of the story, it's not about "too many people". Rather, it's how Disney has decided to spread the existing crowds around.

SSE for example. Routinely has 30+ minute waits now when it never used to before FP+

 

[Andrew015]

An argument for some. I still see options for middle class. A lot of middle class stayed deluxe. Now its mods or DVC. Some stayed mods-now value.

I covered this in post #29. Nevertheless, it's conceding that pricing has had a significant, direct impact - be it downgrading accommodations, less park days, or not going at all - for many families.

But mostly those that budget a WDW trip will still go-no matter what they are labeled.

Proof? I completely disagree.

Lastly-who decides what demographics are/should be targeted?

Taking a wild guess - board of directors? The same group of people who feel that $165/point (and rising) DVC and $2,000/night waterfront bungalows are the future?

Where should pricing be set to keep the gates/hotels at an enjoyable level?

I think you're sorely mistaken if you think anyone in the upper management ranks are concerned with keeping crowd levels "enjoyable". The only word containing the suffix "able" that they are concerned about starts with the root word "profit".

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I covered this in post #29. Nevertheless, it's conceding that pricing has had a significant, direct impact - be it downgrading accommodations, less park days, or not going at all - for many families.

A necessary direct impact IMO. Still affordable choices for Middle Class, and many Lower Class even. I've always said people "want" more, it's human nature and a credit to what WDW can offer. Doesn't mean everyone can have the best.

Proof? I completely disagree.

What I'm saying is if somebody "budgets" for they trip, they can go. I know a "lower class" family that just went this summer. The "chose" to drop other "unnecessary" spending by choice in order to make it happen.

Taking a wild guess - board of directors? The same group of people who feel that $165/point (and rising) DVC and $2,000/night waterfront bungalows are the future?

Future? Those are present.

I think you're sorely mistaken if you think anyone in the upper management ranks are concerned with keeping crowd levels "enjoyable".

Point is lowering the prices will not lower the crowd levels.

 

[Andrew015]

A necessary direct impact IMO. Still affordable choices for Middle Class, and many Lower Class even. I've always said people "want" more, it's human nature and a credit to what WDW can offer. Doesn't mean everyone can have the best.

I'm not suggesting that everyone should be entitled to a WDW vacation. Rather, I've highlighted that as costs continue to rise substantially (and in many instances, unjustifiably), it impacts many families - ranging from making vacation cutbacks all the way to forgoing WDW altogether. My message has been very consistent throughout this thread as well as others (pricing out the middle class, is WDW screwed, etc.).

What I'm saying is if somebody "budgets" for they trip, they can go. I know a "lower class" family that just went this summer. The "chose" to drop other "unnecessary" spending by choice in order to make it happen.

Sure they can. However, for the "one family you know", how many thousands of others have said "forget it, I can't afford it?" That's the crux of the entire argument.

FYI... Do you know how bad "I know a lower-class family" sounds? Yikes.

Point is lowering the prices will not lower the crowd levels.

I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested that Disney ought to lower its prices. Obviously, that's never going to happen.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I'm not suggesting that everyone should be entitled to a WDW vacation. Rather, I've highlighted that as costs continue to rise, it impacts many families - ranging from making vacation cutbacks all the way to forgoing WDW altogether. My message has been very consistent throughout this thread as well as others (pricing out the middle class, is WDW screwed, etc.).

As have mine, that there are plenty of options/choices (at home and WDW) for those that want to go.

Sure they can. However, for the "one family you know", how many thousands of others have said "forget it, I can't afford it?"

Probably plenty that "chose" the better homes/cars/ipads/iphones/boats/movies/restaurants instead.

FYI... Do you know how bad "I know a lower-class family" sounds? Yikes.

Interesting take-although that is why I used "quotes" around it.

Unless you literally mean "knowing" one sounds bad.

But have also noticed you keep trying to prop up the middle class affording it, and just disregard the "lower class" as going, even though they still can. Why not make it affordable to them as well?

I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested that Disney ought to lower its prices. Obviously, that's never going to happen.

Well if you are complaining that they "raised" prices and shouldn't have, what/where would you have set the prices at?

 

[minnie mum]

Or is it the every year guests that are complaining because now it's an every 18 months to every other year visit?



The article was more about spending within the parks, which is souvenirs, food, etc. That's what most people would call discretionary spending. But yes, for our side of it, the whole trip is really "discretionary."

OK, I'll take the cost of lodging off the board. But I would still like to see how the average guest spending increase stacks up next to the increased cost of ticket, food and merchandise items. Only then would we know whether this archetypal guest is buying more, or just spending more for the same amount ( or less) than he was before.

 

[Andrew015]

As have mine, that there are plenty of options for those that want to go.

No argument that there are still options. My argument is and has been that those options are becoming less and less, as prices continue to rise at astonishing rates. Again, very consistently expressed and irrefutable.

Probably plenty that "chose" the better homes/cars/ipads/iphones/boats/movies/restaurants instead.

That goes without saying. Notice how you discount the average family living within their means that hasn't seen a wage increase over the past decade? Could they pinch pennies and somehow make it work? Sure - some do. Many more just say "forget it". All the better for you, as it helps to control the crowds. Right?

Interesting take-although that is why I used "quotes" around it. Unless you literally mean "knowing" one sounds bad. But have also noticed you keep trying to prop up the middle class affording it, and just disregard the "lower class" as going, even though they still can.

You're really grasping at straws here... Especially considering that the heart of your message translates to "The hell with those that can't afford it... crowd control... etc. "... Need I say any more about who's dismissing the lower-middle class?

Well if you are complaining that they "raised" prices and shouldn't have, what/where would you have set the prices at?

For the record, I have no problem whatsoever with Disney raising prices. My problem is that prices have been raised substantially with getting very little in return (or in some instances such as EPCOT & Studios, food quality, general maintenance, etc. - a declining product). Pricing should be commensurate with the product offering. End of story. Again, another message I have been very consistent on over the past few years.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

No argument that there are still options. My argument is and has been that those options are becoming less and less, as prices continue to rise at astonishing rates. Again, very consistently expressed and irrefutable.

Fewer options are still options, and plenty of them. Easy to avoid the expensive options.

That goes without saying. Notice how you discount the average family living within their means that hasn't seen a wage increase over the past decade? Could they pinch pennies and somehow make it work? Sure - some do. Many more just say "forget it". All the better for you, as it helps to control the crowds. Right?

Like rteez and others have said, crowds are bigger than ever.

You're really grasping at straws here... Especially considering that the heart of your message translates to "The hell with those that can't afford it... crowd control... etc. "... Need I say any more about who's dismissing the lower-middle class?

Those that "choose" to afford/budget it.

For the record, I have no problem whatsoever with Disney raising prices. My problem is that prices have been raised substantially with getting very little in return (or in some instances such as EPCOT & Studios, food quality, general maintenance, etc. - a declining product). Pricing should be commensurate with the product offering. End of story. Again, another message I have been very consistent on over the past few years.

Yet you won't say what the prices should be.

 

[Andrew015]

Fewer options are still options, and plenty of them. Easy to avoid the expensive options.

We're going to agree to disagree here.

Like rteez and others have said, crowds are bigger than ever.

You make it seem as if all four parks are bursting at the seams. EPCOT's less than 1% annual growth over the past 7 years is just astounding, isn't it?

Yet you won't say what the prices should be.

I already did. Commensurate with the product offering. Nothing more really needs to be said, as this is pretty self-explanatory. Can you tell me why admission to both EPCOT and H.S. is up anywhere from 60-70% depending on ticket media since 2005? What have they added to enhance the experience at either park that justifies those types of increases? This ought to be good...

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Have never said individual parks couldn't use attention-and they are getting it.

Like others-we have witnessed the parks being much busier. But I contend prices were too low after the 90's expansion, and even though park tickets have risen to meet demand, the package discounts, room discounts, DVC offerings, food stores in the resorts, ME have offered guests ways to obtain a trip to WDW on budgets that are not that large.

Otherwise how do you explain a flat wage, and a 70% increase in costs brought an increase in attendance?

 

[Andrew015]

Have never said individual parks couldn't use attention-and they are getting it.

After more than a decade of neglect AND year-over-year massive increases... that's the rub.

Otherwise how do you explain a flat wage, and a 70% increase in costs brought an increase in attendance?

Are you not following the whole part of the argument about shifting focus towards the affluent classes???????

Still dodging my question. Please explain the justification for price increases in EPCOT and H.S.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Still dodging my question. Please explain the justification for price increases in EPCOT and H.S.

Have never said they need to add attractions to raise park passes, nor have I said they should raise park passes without adding attractions. Have only said that attendance is still increasing even with raising park passes-justified or not. But that's not the discussion-I'm saying the middle class and even lower and lower middle class can still budget for a WDW vacation. Yes a 4 night 4 park family of 4 could have done deluxe in 2005, but now it's probably the same price for a moderate 10 years later.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Are you not following the whole part of the argument about shifting focus towards the affluent classes???????
.

I am following that, but why would you be the one to decide what "class" should be focused on? Esp if the other classes can still afford to go as well?

Big money going to WDW is not really as bad of a thing as you might want to believe. It leads to more expansion, improved surroundings, and more options for the times middle class guests want to splurge.

Guest spending habits and incomes change over 50 years (even 5 or 10), who is to say what WDW should look like year over year, even decade over decade? Including what individual costs should be at any given time?

 

[Imamom2]

Business is business and vacation is vacation and families have to set their own limits and priorities. Parents need to be financial role-models for kids. Plan and enjoy - don't complain about the cost of everything on vacation. Take a look at your grocery bill - the cost of everything has gone up. We've done vacations at Disney, Universal, Washington DC, down the shore and to the islands and every time it's totally worth it. Fun, memories, laughter... that's what vacations are about. If you can't afford Disney every year boo-hoo! Most families can't. If you have to max out credit cards to go on vacation then you can't afford it. Plan to save and go when you can afford to. Disney offers so many options for every type of budget. So many people have been complaining about the cost of Disney but it's a huge corporation and their goal is making money. Kudos to them for being so successful It's a great place to visit - fun, safe, beautiful, clean, welcoming... everything we want when we go away. We work hard and go to Disney to enjoy every magical moment. We rented DVC points again and can't wait to stay at BWV in September!

 

[Imamom2]

Is there anything at all to back this up? People keep stating this like its a fact, yet every quarter they are reporting record revenues due to higher attendance and higher per guest spending (according to the conference calls at the earnings release).

It certainly doesn't seem like people are 'walking away' from Disney.