Speaking other languages in public in the U.S.

[Arkansan]

I'm curious how many of you speak Madarin? If we're going to get all upset that we're not accomodating and bilingual, why not require all Americans to learn Mandarin? It is the mostly widely spoken language in the world. If we are to be a truly open society and world market, shouldn't we be able to speak to the most populus nation in the world and not just accomodate our neighbors?

My DD is learning Mandarin. It is offered at our HS. She plans to take it all 4 years of HS and we have found an interesting program at a college she would like to attend. Time will tell if all that happens. it is a VERY difficult language! She loves to have me repeat words because I have a hard time "hearing" the correct pronunciation. It sounds correct to me, but she says no! Sadly, there are only 4 classes (one at each level) at the HS--a school of approx. 1800-2000 students in grades 9-12. I think more kids would take Mandarin, but, they only offer Spanish, French, and German in the MS so most kids just continue in the language they have been studying for two years once they get to HS. (If you take 2 yrs. in MS, you can start at Level 2 in HS foreign language classes.) Also, I think fear of the difficulty keeps some kids away. It is a pretty competitive school grade-wise. My DD says that other kids--even Honors students--always say, "You take Chinese! That must be so hard." She is one of only 2-3 Caucasians in the class. Most of the class of 17 kids are Asian and at least speak it or a version (like Cantonese) at home. Some of the class didn't have high enough grades to continue to Level 2 next year. You needed a final grade of 75--all 4 quarters averaged with the mid-term and final exam--to continue. Fortunately my DD made it! She really needs to put some time studying this summer, though, so she doesn't lose it since she has no opportunities to use it in our daily life. It did get a LOT harder as the year progressed so I hope she can keep her grades up and not have it ruin her overall GPA. I believe that it looks good on her transcript to take it even if she gets a C, but I'm not sure colleges will feel that way. She is our oldest, so we will see!

 

[PrincessKsMom]

No you get treated poorly when they think you are American. When people learn I'm Canadian I get a lot more respect and hospitality.

That's my point. Other than speaking English what is it you're doing that leads them to believe you're a rude American? If you don't speak and you're not wearing your Canadian flag, what separates you from others surrounding you? It's either your use of the English language or, apparently, you're being rude.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

And how are you saying I'm expecting it to be instant when you yourself said they've been coming here for "generations"? I didn't say instantly. You assumed that. I'm fine that we have immigrants (legally, of course) and that we adopt some of their cultures. I love diverse foods and without immigrants of the past, we wouldn't have that here. What I don't like is as Gumbo said, there are those that don't want to even try to assimilate and even like to put down this country. If they don't like it, find somewhere else. It's been working great for America for many generations now.

Huh? The Hispanics who have been here for generations have assimilated, that's my point. They make up huge portions of the populations of California, Texas, Arizona, Colorado and Florida and are located in every state in the Union, to the point that you clearly don't even notice them anymore. New immigrants are still assimilating specifically because they are still new! You do realize that just because somebody who came here 50 years has now "melted" into the culture doesn't mean that somebody who arrived two years ago will fit in just as well or as easily, regardless of whether they came here from Asia, Europe, Africa or Latin America? Again, you are entitled to your opinions, but not to your own facts. Your fears are not new, nor are they original.

 

[Shmily1]

Huh? The Hispanics who have been here for generations have assimilated, that's my point. They make up huge portions of the populations of California, Texas, Arizona, Colorado and Florida and are located in every state in the Union, to the point that you clearly don't even notice them anymore. New immigrants are still assimilating specifically because they are still new! You do realize that just because somebody who came here 50 years has now "melted" into the culture doesn't mean that somebody who arrived two years ago will fit in just as well or as easily, regardless of whether they came here from Asia, Europe, Africa or Latin America? Again, you are entitled to your opinions, but not to your own facts. Your fears are not new, nor are they original.

I'm afraid of snakes and hieghts, not immigrants.

I do realize the difference in how long someone has been here. I am not two and have an education.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

My DD is learning Mandarin. It is offered at our HS. She plans to take it all 4 years of HS and we have found an interesting program at a college she would like to attend. Time will tell if all that happens. it is a VERY difficult language! She loves to have me repeat words because I have a hard time "hearing" the correct pronunciation. It sounds correct to me, but she says no! Sadly, there are only 4 classes (one at each level) at the HS--a school of approx. 1800-2000 students in grades 9-12. I think more kids would take Mandarin, but, they only offer Spanish, French, and German in the MS so most kids just continue in the language they have been studying for two years once they get to HS. (If you take 2 yrs. in MS, you can start at Level 2 in HS foreign language classes.) Also, I think fear of the difficulty keeps some kids away. It is a pretty competitive school grade-wise. My DD says that other kids--even Honors students--always say, "You take Chinese! That must be so hard." She is one of only 2-3 Caucasians in the class. Most of the class of 17 kids are Asian and at least speak it or a version (like Cantonese) at home. Some of the class didn't have high enough grades to continue to Level 2 next year. You needed a final grade of 75--all 4 quarters averaged with the mid-term and final exam--to continue. Fortunately my DD made it! She really needs to put some time studying this summer, though, so she doesn't lose it since she has no opportunities to use it in our daily life. It did get a LOT harder as the year progressed so I hope she can keep her grades up and not have it ruin her overall GPA. I believe that it looks good on her transcript to take it even if she gets a C, but I'm not sure colleges will feel that way. She is our oldest, so we will see!

Congratulations to your daughter. I've heard it is an extremely hard language to learn but apparently she's doing well. I know so many times kids are worried about their GPA that they tend to shy away from harder classes. Continued success with her Mandarin lessons and her future!

 

[wdwmom3]

That's my point. Other than speaking English what is it you're doing that leads them to believe you're a rude American? If you don't speak and you're not wearing your Canadian flag, what separates you from others surrounding you? It's either your use of the English language or, apparently, you're being rude.

Probably the accent. My parents and other relatives who have British accents don't get the attitude. And I have also come across it in English speaking countries such as England and Scotland. My point is the "speak English" attitudes is one of the things that give American a bad reputation (which I don't agree with). I'm used to hearing lots of different languages everywhere i go. And no one I know would ever think someone speaking another language is rude. And unlike the US we do have "official" languages in Canada.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Probably the accent. My parents and other relatives who have British accents don't get the attitude. And I have also come across it in English speaking countries such as England and Scotland. My point is the "speak English" attitudes is one of the things that give American a bad reputation (which I don't agree with). I'm used to hearing lots of different languages everywhere i go. And no one I know would ever think someone speaking another language is rude. And unlike the US we do have "official" languages in Canada.

And my point is that people in other countries are judging you strictly on your language/accent without knowing anything else about you. And that's okay because they're not rude Americans with an attitude problem that are doing it.

 

[wdwmom3]

And my point is that people in other countries are judging you strictly on your language/accent without knowing anything else about you. And that's okay because they're not rude Americans with an attitude problem that are doing it.

I never said it was ok. In fact I said I don't agree with it. I was just pointing out the reality that a lot of people in other countries view Americans as very intolerant. And the more and more I read about some Americans views on things like language, multiculturalism, gay marriage etc I can see why people get this opinion.

 

[wdwmom3]

The worst was actually when we were flying back from Disney and I was watching fox news and that was when news broke about the RCMP busting a terror plot to blow up trains traveling between Ontario and new York. Well during the press conference they would say things in English and the switch to French. The guy on fox news was getting livid about how ridiculous that was, and not "good for tv". Talk about ignorant.

 

[GigglyFigment]

The only times I've found it rude are due to the person's behavior and while language was the instrument, the same behavior could have happened if they were speaking English. I dated a guy in high school whose mother was born outside of the U.S. She'd use her native language to talk to him in front of me when she didn't want me to know what she was saying. Other times, tourists have gotten nasty with me when I don't understand what they were asking me. Both behaviors would have been just as bad if they were speaking English, but they probably stick out in my mind more due to the language barrier.

I really don't care what language a person uses in public or at home just as it's none of my business what someone is saying in a conversation I'm not involved with.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Being bilingual (French and English) can be a huge advantage for certain jobs. There are jobs within the public service where you must be bilingual to apply. Even in a job where only 1 language is required you receive a bonus is you are bilingual. I have seen many other jobs in the private sector as well where they want someone who is bilingual. Especially if you are in an industry that does business in Quebec.

I'm not bilingual (I do know some French) and don't find it an issue. But being bilingual does have advantages.

Being bi, or multi, lingual does have advantages in labor markets everywhere. I just don't see the absence of an advantage being the same as a disadvantage. In a sense, it's just semantics.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I never said it was ok. In fact I said I don't agree with it. I was just pointing out the reality that a lot of people in other countries view Americans as very intolerant. And the more and more I read about some Americans views on things like language, multiculturalism, gay marriage etc I can see why people get this opinion.

So we're considered intolerant while others are doing the same thing to you and that's somehow different because they're not Americans? I don't have a problem with people from other cultures etc. Jez, I work in NYC! I'm surrounded by it every day. My daughter's school has a huge Hispanic and multi-cultural population. I am extremely proLGBT rights, gay marriage, etc. I'm probably more liberal than many people on this Board. This is just one thing that irks me. That's it. Irks me. I'm not calling for people to be removed from the country. I'm not asking that they be shunned. I also don't comment when I hear others speaking a different language. Just don't speak so loudly that the whole room, train, etc. turns to look at you. We're not looking because you're speaking another language, we're looking because you're being loud and rude (and this goes for those speaking English as well). And please don't tell me I should learn another language, because as others have so elegantly pointed out, it's very hard to learn a new language when you're older.

And while we're on the subject of Americans who are rude and intolerant, to which Americans are you referring? Since we have such a diverse culture and population is it only the white, Anglo-Saxon, European-looking type Americans you're referring to? Or is the whole country just a complete and utter mess and we're all unworthy of the rest of the world?

 

[CPT Tripss]

That's my point. Other than speaking English what is it you're doing that leads them to believe you're a rude American? If you don't speak and you're not wearing your Canadian flag, what separates you from others surrounding you? It's either your use of the English language or, apparently, you're being rude.

There are many ways to spot an American when abroad that are purely visual. Clothing and body language come to mind right away.

 

[Arkansan]

Congratulations to your daughter. I've heard it is an extremely hard language to learn but apparently she's doing well. I know so many times kids are worried about their GPA that they tend to shy away from harder classes. Continued success with her Mandarin lessons and her future!

Thank you so much! I appreciate your kind words.

It is a very hard language. It is not just the thousands of characters, but the pinyin (sort of a phonetic spelling with English letters), the reading and, of course, the spoken/conversational aspect. I've purchased a few APPs for learning Mandarin for her and it is a little overwhelming. I hope she decides to stick with it! I do feel it is the most beneficial language she could take. Hopefully my other two will take it as well.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

I'm afraid of snakes and hieghts, not immigrants.

I do realize the difference in how long someone has been here. I am not two and have an education.

Your previous posts belie your confident but contrary assertions above...

 

[DeaverTex]

May I add a touch of levity to this conversation? (It's been mostly civil and interesting so far.)

Near our house there was a doughnut shop. It's gone now, a victim of bad location, but it was a thriving social hub of the local Vietnamese immigrant population. (There is a large contingent of Vietnamese and other Asian immigrants in our part of Austin.) Groups of men would gather around tables, inside and out, and have a wonderful time solving the world's problems -- just like you and I do -- except they were doing it in Vietnamese.

One day, when I was there getting doughnuts for a Saturday breakfast, an Hispanic family walked in. They were dressed in all of the tell-tale regalia and clothing styles of the newly arrived Hispanic immigrant, and yes it really is THAT obvious. All conversation stopped until they left. It was so odd that I took my time choosing a dozen doughnuts, just to watch. Conversation resumed when they left, a little more intense than before.

When I asked one of the young ladies who worked behind the counter what had just happened, she told me that the regulars didn't like it that so many foreigners were moving to the neighborhood.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

May I add a touch of levity to this conversation? (It's been mostly civil and interesting so far.)

Near our house there was a doughnut shop. It's gone now, a victim of bad location, but it was a thriving social hub of the local Vietnamese immigrant population. (There is a large contingent of Vietnamese and other Asian immigrants in our part of Austin.) Groups of men would gather around tables, inside and out, and have a wonderful time solving the world's problems -- just like you and I do -- except they were doing it in Vietnamese.

One day, when I was there getting doughnuts for a Saturday breakfast, an Hispanic family walked in. They were dressed in all of the tell-tale regalia and clothing styles of the newly arrived Hispanic immigrant, and yes it really is THAT obvious. All conversation stopped until they left. It was so odd that I took my time choosing a dozen doughnuts, just to watch. Conversation resumed when they left, a little more intense than before.

When I asked one of the young ladies who worked behind the counter what had just happened, she told me that the regulars didn't like it that so many foreigners were moving to the neighborhood.

 

[wdwmom3]

So we're considered intolerant while others are doing the same thing to you and that's somehow different because they're not Americans? I don't have a problem with people from other cultures etc. Jez, I work in NYC! I'm surrounded by it every day. My daughter's school has a huge Hispanic and multi-cultural population. I am extremely proLGBT rights, gay marriage, etc. I'm probably more liberal than many people on this Board. This is just one thing that irks me. That's it. Irks me. I'm not calling for people to be removed from the country. I'm not asking that they be shunned. I also don't comment when I hear others speaking a different language. Just don't speak so loudly that the whole room, train, etc. turns to look at you. We're not looking because you're speaking another language, we're looking because you're being loud and rude (and this goes for those speaking English as well). And please don't tell me I should learn another language, because as others have so elegantly pointed out, it's very hard to learn a new language when you're older.

And while we're on the subject of Americans who are rude and intolerant, to which Americans are you referring? Since we have such a diverse culture and population is it only the white, Anglo-Saxon, European-looking type Americans you're referring to? Or is the whole country just a complete and utter mess and we're all unworthy of the rest of the world?

Ok wow you seriously need to react. I have heard if selective listening but I guess you are selectively reading. I was very clear to say that I do not agree with this opinion that others have that American are intolerant. I was not pointing any fingers. Yes I see many intolerant opinions posted here but I understand that often these are views of the minority. I was simply stating that this is the opinion of a lot of the rest of the world. I also clearly stayed that I thought it was wrong. So before you go all nuts how about you try reading a little more closely. I can't defend those attitudes towards americans because I don't agree with them. I was simply stating that they exist.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Ok wow you seriously need to react. I have heard if selective listening but I guess you are selectively reading. I was very clear to say that I do not agree with this opinion that others have that American are intolerant. I was not pointing any fingers. Yes I see many intolerant opinions posted here but I understand that often these are views of the minority. I was simply stating that this is the opinion of a lot of the rest of the world. I also clearly stayed that I thought it was wrong. So before you go all nuts how about you try reading a little more closely. I can't defend those attitudes towards americans because I don't agree with them. I was simply stating that they exist.

While you did say you don't agree, you then said "And the more and more I read about some Americans views on things like language, multiculturalism, gay marriage etc I can see why people get this opinion." Sorry if I misinterpreted what you meant.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

May I add a touch of levity to this conversation? (It's been mostly civil and interesting so far.)

Near our house there was a doughnut shop. It's gone now, a victim of bad location, but it was a thriving social hub of the local Vietnamese immigrant population. (There is a large contingent of Vietnamese and other Asian immigrants in our part of Austin.) Groups of men would gather around tables, inside and out, and have a wonderful time solving the world's problems -- just like you and I do -- except they were doing it in Vietnamese.

One day, when I was there getting doughnuts for a Saturday breakfast, an Hispanic family walked in. They were dressed in all of the tell-tale regalia and clothing styles of the newly arrived Hispanic immigrant, and yes it really is THAT obvious. All conversation stopped until they left. It was so odd that I took my time choosing a dozen doughnuts, just to watch. Conversation resumed when they left, a little more intense than before.

When I asked one of the young ladies who worked behind the counter what had just happened, she told me that the regulars didn't like it that so many foreigners were moving to the neighborhood.