Spanking

[luvsJack]

I don't understand the reasoning behind hitting kids when you are disappointed in their behavior. Kids learn from adults and all you are teaching them is that viilence is ok when you are mad at someone.

I have no trouble controlling DD. If she's acting up in a line for a ride, we remove her from line, make her take a break and collect herself, and then continue with our day.

I have a friend that spanks, her kids are the most ill behaved kids I've ever seen. They know that they aren't going to miss out on fun or treats, they just have to brace for a little pain and then they get to continue with their fun. She's in for a world of trouble when they start school. People already avoid spending time with her because the kids are so mean.

And I know kids like this who are not spanked ever. There is more to it than that. Some of it is the nature of the kid, some of it is that Mom isnt consistent or doesn't follow through. Some of it is not knowing what they are supposed to do instead of whatever warranted the spanking. There are a million reasons.

I have a close friend at work that has raised three kids totally on her own. Her husband died when she was pregnant with the youngest. They are three of the most polite, respectful young adults you could ever meet. They all went to college and all are successful. Two are parents and their kids are the sweetest and both are fantastic parents. When her three were little, she didn't just spank, she whipped with a belt when she felt they needed it. When her sons were teens, she thought nothing of slapping one in the back of the head. BUT there was never any doubt whatsoever that she dearly loves her kids. Her whole life has been built around doing what was best for them, being there for them, providing for them and being their strongest ally. And as adults, they love their mother dearly. They aren't violent in any way shape or form so that wasn't what she taught them at all.

 

[robinb]

I would be uncomfortable if I witnessed someone spanking their child in line at WDW. The queue is not the time or the place for that kind of discipline. That being said, I would not say anything to them or alert a CM or anything like that. I would probably just look away frowning and not make eye contract. Like someone @Soldier's*Sweeties said upthread, I would be secreting judging them.

FWIW, I did once carry my screaming child out of DHS (then MGM) back home to the resort.

 

[Wishing on a star]

To the one poster, who just LOVES to quote me and play the semantics game....
Don't know whether to
I could always use a good laugh in the mornings!!!

But, in any case...

Carry on everyone!!!

 

[Pacolovestacos]

Also about spankings: They should actually serve a purpose which is to get the child to stop doing the bad behavior. Spankings are not suppose to be a way for parents to let their stress out.

 

[LSUmiss]

And I know kids like this who are not spanked ever. There is more to it than that. Some of it is the nature of the kid, some of it is that Mom isnt consistent or doesn't follow through. Some of it is not knowing what they are supposed to do instead of whatever warranted the spanking. There are a million reasons.

I have a close friend at work that has raised three kids totally on her own. Her husband died when she was pregnant with the youngest. They are three of the most polite, respectful young adults you could ever meet. They all went to college and all are successful. Two are parents and their kids are the sweetest and both are fantastic parents. When her three were little, she didn't just spank, she whipped with a belt when she felt they needed it. When her sons were teens, she thought nothing of slapping one in the back of the head. BUT there was never any doubt whatsoever that she dearly loves her kids. Her whole life has been built around doing what was best for them, being there for them, providing for them and being their strongest ally. And as adults, they love their mother dearly. They aren't violent in any way shape or form so that wasn't what she taught them at all.

I’m sorry, but that’s different from a light swat on the butt. Slapping anyone on the back of the head is inappropriate in my opinion. And, I do have a problem that anything that can be described as “whipping” especially if it’s with a belt or other item. Sometimes kids turn out ok despite things not b/c of them. I don’t doubt that ppl love their kids, but that doesn’t mean all parenting techniques are appropriate just b/c they mean well.

 

[LSUmiss]

I guess my thing is ppl like to use the excuse that not all kids are the same so some “need it”. That’s absolutely true that not all kids are the same, but I disagree that anyone needs it. Not really referring to a quick light swat on the butt or the hand of a very young child. I saw kids who were diagnosed with oppositional defiant disorder &/or were involved with the juvenile justice system be effectively disciplined & parented (after proper techniques were learned) with no corporal punishment. It’s hard to be more of a discipline problem than those kids & they never “needed it”.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I do agree that different things work with different kids, and different things are appropriate at different times (but also that "whipping" is taking it too far for anyone.)

We reserved spanking (a quick swat on the bottom) for rare times when shock value was important, and words would have been lost - like the "about to run in the street" scenario...but I know I was lucky that DS was fairly easy to reason with, even at a young age.

I think the most important thing is to mean what you say. - Don't threaten anything you can't/won't follow through on, and immediately follow through on any threat you do make. (A close second is setting things up so your kid has the resources to behave properly in the first place - things like avoiding the grocery store at nap time, packing snacks...)

As to the original line question, I would not have intervened unless I actually thought the child was unsafe. As a couple of people already said, some of the things people say to their kids would bother me way more.

 

[Hikergirl]

I don't know if my kids needed a spanking but I do know I needed to do something at the time and that is what worked.
I can count on one hand how many times I've spanked my 3 kids, and I have no idea if I ever did it while out and about.
I know I'm pretty biased towards them but I'm pretty sure they turned out Okay

@PollyannaMom yes, shock value describes it perfectly (at least for how we used spanking)

 

[LSUmiss]

I don't know if my kids needed a spanking but I do know I needed to do something at the time and that is what worked.
I can count on one hand how many times I've spanked my 3 kids, and I have no idea if I ever did it while out and about.
I know I'm pretty biased towards them but I'm pretty sure they turned out Okay

@PollyannaMom yes, shock value describes it perfectly (at least for how we used spanking)

Agree about the shock value &, of course, it’s only a shock if that’s not the routine means of discipline in the household.

 

[Happyinwonerland]

And I know kids like this who are not spanked ever. There is more to it than that. Some of it is the nature of the kid, some of it is that Mom isnt consistent or doesn't follow through. Some of it is not knowing what they are supposed to do instead of whatever warranted the spanking. There are a million reasons.

I have a close friend at work that has raised three kids totally on her own. Her husband died when she was pregnant with the youngest. They are three of the most polite, respectful young adults you could ever meet. They all went to college and all are successful. Two are parents and their kids are the sweetest and both are fantastic parents. When her three were little, she didn't just spank, she whipped with a belt when she felt they needed it. When her sons were teens, she thought nothing of slapping one in the back of the head. BUT there was never any doubt whatsoever that she dearly loves her kids. Her whole life has been built around doing what was best for them, being there for them, providing for them and being their strongest ally. And as adults, they love their mother dearly. They aren't violent in any way shape or form so that wasn't what she taught them at all.

what you have described is child abuse. Your friend is an abuser. Abusers usually love their families, they just can't control themselves when angry. If she walked up to anyone else, young or old, and hit them, she'd be jailed for assault. Why does it make it ok when it is her children she is hitting?

 

[luvsJack]

I’m sorry, but that’s different from a light swat on the butt. Slapping anyone on the back of the head is inappropriate in my opinion. And, I do have a problem that anything that can be described as “whipping” especially if it’s with a belt or other item. Sometimes kids turn out ok despite things not b/c of them. I don’t doubt that ppl love their kids, but that doesn’t mean all parenting techniques are appropriate just b/c they mean well.

I would have never have done either of those things either. But I can assure you that the reasons these three turned out well is because of the love they have in their family and the lessons their Mom taught them. They learned the meaning of work ethic, the importance of education, the importance of family etc. all from their mother. My point was that you can't look at a kid and say they act a certain way because they are or are not spanked. If one of her three had problems from the way they were raised, I would say she damaged the child with the discipline techniques she used but all three are great people and two are great parents with great kids. So while I don't agree with the belt or the slaps, obviously she did a lot of right.

 

[luvsJack]

what you have described is child abuse. Your friend is an abuser. Abusers usually love their families, they just can't control themselves when angry. If she walked up to anyone else, young or old, and hit them, she'd be jailed for assault. Why does it make it ok when it is her children she is hitting?

You would have to know her but I can't help but laugh. She is extremely capable of controlling her anger. She doesn't have a temper and rarely would you even know she has gotten angry. I have worked under her supervision for 12 years and have witnessed co-workers do things that would make most people lash out. She will leave her office, walk away from the issue, just go buy a Coke or to the bathroom and then come back and have a calm conversation with the employee.

I wouldn't make the same choices she did. But seeing the end result, I have a hard time judging her for it.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

what you have described is child abuse. Your friend is an abuser. Abusers usually love their families, they just can't control themselves when angry. If she walked up to anyone else, young or old, and hit them, she'd be jailed for assault. Why does it make it ok when it is her children she is hitting?

I’m so with you. I have never understood why hitting children is proper way to teach children anything or why it’s ok to hit somebody as long as they’re under 18.

I would have never have done either of those things either. But I can assure you that the reasons these three turned out well is because of the love they have in their family and the lessons their Mom taught them. They learned the meaning of work ethic, the importance of education, the importance of family etc. all from their mother. My point was that you can't look at a kid and say they act a certain way because they are or are not spanked. If one of her three had problems from the way they were raised, I would say she damaged the child with the discipline techniques she used but all three are great people and two are great parents with great kids. So while I don't agree with the belt or the slaps, obviously she did a lot of right.

Those lessons don’t need “whippings”. That is pretty abusive. Would you stay with a partner who taught you about work ethic by beating you with a belt when you were hanging around instead of cleaning the house? That would be ridiculous (I’m not saying that is what this parent did, but the argument is being made that they learned these things because of how they were brought up).

Everybody has anecdotal stories about kids turning out one way or the other, but pretty much all (and I generally mean all from well respected sources, not fringe groups) science and research says it’s not only ineffective but harmful.

As to what I’d do in line? I’d judge the hell out of somebody who smacked their kid in line but sadly there’s nothing to be done about it.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think it really depends on the kid. I don't think people can say for sure that spanking isn't effective or necessary unless they know the child.

This is where I stand on the subject really.

My parents spanked me (in public, in private, on the side of the road you name it), I also got slapped with a belt and liquid soap shoved in my mouth. I also got the whole guilt-trip you're ruining x,y,z. Also telling me to go to my room also didn't work for me. That crap just didn't work for me. All it did was made me fear my parents in not a good way and if they wanted my respect for doing those things they didn't get it.

My sister on the other hand wasn't like me in temperment. Spanking and soap was about all she got. Her viewpoint is different than mine and for her spanking and soap had a much different effect than for me. We're two different people and the same punishment didn't work the same on us. She is the elder by 3 years.

What honestly was a lot more effective for me was the nose in the corner, "we're not going to the movies (or whatever) today", "we're leaving now" stuff.

Would I be ok with someone spanking their child? Probably not. But I would also get that I'm not having the full story here--like others though I think there's a point where you just see it no matter what as not ok. I did however witness a mom full on slap her daughter in the face in the lobby of All-Star Sports on my most recent trip for stepping (accidentally it appeared but we didn't have the full details) on the back of the mom's flip-flop---dead silence and "OMG I can't believe that just happened" looks from everyone.

 

[luvsJack]

I’m so with you. I have never understood why hitting children is proper way to teach children anything or why it’s ok to hit somebody as long as they’re under 18.



Those lessons don’t need “whippings”. That is pretty abusive. Would you stay with a partner who taught you about work ethic by beating you with a belt when you were hanging around instead of cleaning the house? That would be ridiculous (I’m not saying that is what this parent did, but the argument is being made that they learned these things because of how they were brought up).

Everybody has anecdotal stories about kids turning out one way or the other, but pretty much all (and I generally mean all from well respected sources, not fringe groups) science and research says it’s not only ineffective but harmful.

As to what I’d do in line? I’d judge the hell out of somebody who smacked their kid in line but sadly there’s nothing to be done about it.

No and I am pretty sure she didn't teach those lessons that way. I think maybe it was more stuff like hanging out with the kid down the street that joined a gang. Or the one who was with his older brother when they robbed a store or broke into a house.

I am not disagreeing that to look at those things alone, it sounds abusive. To know the family and the whole picture tells you a different story. And what she did was effective in the end. Neither boy joined a gang or continued to hang out with those that did. Both turned in to successful young men. She raised her kids in a different world than I raised mine. I had support from dh and their dad and other family, she did it alone.

I can also tell you of another kid. Never spanked or whipped or any of that. Mom disciplined in other ways. As a young child he was well behaved. He hit junior high and became a nightmare. I asked about him the other day, his step dad had to throw him out of the house because he was stealing them blind and is on drugs and they were tired of the calls to come get him out of jail. Not saying he should have been spanked but something was missing. Something that probably had nothing to do with being or not being disciplined in a certain way.

Just saying that there is a lot more to what goes on in a family and how a kid turns out than whether they are sparked or not.

I have read the science and the research. I well know what it says, believe me. I know the techniques. I know the studies in child development.

Sometimes I think that the answer is in the middle somewhere.

 

[Julie's Haircut]

I don't ever remember seeing a kid being spanked at Disney, but almost every trip I saw or overheard a variation of "We've driven 1000 miles/spent $5000 to take you to Disney and now you're ruining everything!!! Damn it, you're going to have fun whether you like it or not!!"

I think I'd rather have seen a quick swat to the backside instead.

 

[Happyinwonerland]

You know, sometimes the good kid does have to suffer because of the bad kid. That might mean that you leave your fun thing, and return another time with just the good kid. They will put significant pressure on each other to knock off the bad behavior so that they don't both miss out.

As for Johnny throwing rocks at cars, he gets to sell his T.V. to pay for any damage he caused, and he can live without it until his parents deem that he has earned it back. He then gets work the next 4 saturdays washing cars for the local mission, or picking up litter around parks and neighborhoods, or some other act of community service. And he misses out on extra cirriculars and parties and whatever else important to him, because vandalism is a serious act and people have died from kids throwing rocks at cars.

When my daughter hit me when she wa a toddler, I looked her in the eye, told her I wasn't going to spend time being hit, and got up and walked away and made her have solo time for a few minutes. She learned quickly that if she wanted to be around people, she couldn't hit.

I'm not a perfect parent. I've raised my voice more than I prefer, and I sometimes am quick to react without thinking about the situation. My intention for punishment is always to teach my child, not to hurt them with words or physical contact.

 

[Pink Partridge]

...she whipped with a belt when she felt they needed it. When her sons were teens, she thought nothing of slapping one in the back of the head. BUT there was never any doubt whatsoever that she dearly loves her kids. Her whole life has been built around doing what was best for them....

Whipping and hitting children on the head is not what is best for them. Your friend is a child abuser.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

No and I am pretty sure she didn't teach those lessons that way. I think maybe it was more stuff like hanging out with the kid down the street that joined a gang. Or the one who was with his older brother when they robbed a store or broke into a house.

I am not disagreeing that to look at those things alone, it sounds abusive. To know the family and the whole picture tells you a different story. And what she did was effective in the end. Neither boy joined a gang or continued to hang out with those that did. Both turned in to successful young men. She raised her kids in a different world than I raised mine. I had support from dh and their dad and other family, she did it alone.

I can also tell you of another kid. Never spanked or whipped or any of that. Mom disciplined in other ways. As a young child he was well behaved. He hit junior high and became a nightmare. I asked about him the other day, his step dad had to throw him out of the house because he was stealing them blind and is on drugs and they were tired of the calls to come get him out of jail. Not saying he should have been spanked but something was missing. Something that probably had nothing to do with being or not being disciplined in a certain way.

Just saying that there is a lot more to what goes on in a family and how a kid turns out than whether they are sparked or not.

I have read the science and the research. I well know what it says, believe me. I know the techniques. I know the studies in child development.

Sometimes I think that the answer is in the middle somewhere.

I can really appreciate that this person is your friend and you know her as a great woman who raised 3 kids on her own, but that doesn’t make it not abuse.

You can be abusive and also have good intentions and have kids who turn out well. Also it can be effective and still abusive. Just because she loved her boys doesn’t mean that whipping them with a belt and hitting them on the head isn’t abuse.

You don’t erase abuse with love, they aren’t mutually exclusive. There is no “whole picture” that makes it not abusive (IMO).

I will agree with you that a lot more goes into how kids turn out. There’s a lot of crappy adult out there and wiring and upbringing both play a role.

 

[Mizzoufan]

Whipping and hitting children on the head is not what is best for them. Your friend is a child abuser.

who knew I was a child abuser because I have been known to pop my kids in the back of the head if they are acting up esp during church.