Sony or Nikon - Help Please!

[YEKCIM]

I'm very glad I picked Nikon because I like the camera, but I certainly didn't mean to start all of this.

You didn't; it's been ongoing way before you started this thread.

Hey, guys...how about a truce, or at least a cease fire??

~YEKCIM

 

[MarkBarbieri]

I'm happy to drop it. It's kind of hard to argue a point with someone that arbitrarily declares inconvenient facts to not be valid anyway.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

And just to be clear, I didn't take any offense at KP's joke.

 

[MICKEY88]

Settle down now, it was just a joke.

I'm very settled...LOL

 

[MICKEY88]

I do have one thought on this though...

the point has been argued that Pentax and Sony aren't readily available in camera stores, although that may be true, that does not mean they are not every bit as good as Nikon or Canon..

I would consider it a handicap if I could not walk into my local camera store and buy a lens or other accessory that I needed that instant.

And when it comes to sending out those two identically skilled photographers with Pentax vs Canon gear, if they are shooting sports(indoor or out) I would say the Canon shooter gets more keepers IMO.

as for this thought all dslr owners could be handicapped depending on what they want to buy, very few camera stores stock pro glass such as you would see at the superbowl etc,,,

300mm 400mm 600mm 2.8 lenses....


sending out 2 experienced pros,,,,the numbers would be close



and as far as numbers on message boards meaning anything,,, most full time pros, don't have time to spend on message boards,

 

[Groucho]

Hey, I'm not offended in any way by the joke.

And I certainly consider Mark to be as much as a friend as anyone here, hopefully I haven't tarred myself in his eyes too badly here. Like I said, it's an "agree to disagree" issue. One can't expect the points that are important to them to be valid for everybody, otherwise everyone would always agree about everything, we could do the "cult of rationality" thing and assign numerical values to each possible feature and plug away until we arrive as a single mathematically-derived consensus on the best camera to buy, but unfortunately, human beings just don't fit well into such models.

If I offended by my statements, I do whole-heartedly apologize, it was not intentional and certainly not meant in any way as an insult.

 

[Anewman]

I do have one thought on this though...

the point has been argued that Pentax and Sony aren't readily available in camera stores, although that may be true, that does not mean they are not every bit as good as Nikon or Canon..

And I dont think anyone ever said they were not as good.

I would consider it a handicap if I could not walk into my local camera store and buy a lens or other accessory that I needed that instant.

And when it comes to sending out those two identically skilled photographers with Pentax vs Canon gear, if they are shooting sports(indoor or out) I would say the Canon shooter gets more keepers IMO.

as for this thought all dslr owners could be handicapped depending on what they want to buy, very few camera stores stock pro glass such as you would see at the superbowl etc,,,

Again I agree, but nobody mentioned "pro glass" exactly and at least those lenses you mention EXIST for Canon.

Now of course I was being over the top when I said it, I was just putting the spin on how a person with a XTI in their hands would somehow be considered "handicapped." But, can you honestly say the odds of finding NIKON glass are not higher than finding PENTAX glass at any local camera store(Try finding a Pentax lens for the SUPERBOWL period).

Maybe it is just me but I find it Ironic that someone shooting a Pentax DL would call somebody with a Canon XTI handicapped in anyway. But that is just me.

 

[Groucho]

Now of course I was being over the top when I said it, I was just putting the spin on how a person with a XTI in their hands would somehow be considered "handicapped." But, can you honestly say the odds of finding NIKON glass are not higher than finding PENTAX glass at any local camera store(Try finding a Pentax lens for the SUPERBOWL period).

Maybe it is just me but I find it Ironic that someone shooting a Pentax DL would call somebody with a Canon XTI handicapped in anyway. But that is just me.

First off, last time I checked, we weren't talking about the DL, we were talking about the K100D. In other words - this isn't about *ME* vs *YOU* or anyone else. It's about currently-offered competitive cameras. Anyway, I would still prefer my DL over an XTi, though not by as much as I'd prefer a K100D over an XTi.

My "handicapped" example was clear, you're left with two worse-quality lenses, no IS, and a few other features missing when using the basic entry-level Canon kit plus the cheaper 50mm, for almost $200 more dollars. Canon can provide good equipment - but only if you're willing to spend serious money.

If you want to talk sports shooting, the K10D is now less than $100 more than the XTi and has unlimited continuous shooting. There are some nice high-end zooms but admittedly not as many as the competition, but they have a few new high-end zooms arriving later this year that should plug that gap. Of course, a pro sports shooter is highly unlikely to be using an XTi, so that's really not a valid comparison.

OK, I think we all need to call a ceasefire on camera debates for a while after this thread.

 

[Steve's Girl]

OK, I think we all need to call a ceasefire on camera debates for a while after this thread.

Oh nice! Put in one last shot and then call a ceasefire!

 

[Anewman]

First off, last time I checked, we weren't talking about the DL, we were talking about the K100D.

Actually this thread was not about the k100d, so I guess only you are allowed to introduce other cameras into the discussion.

My "handicapped" example was clear, you're left with two worse-quality lenses, no IS, and a few other features missing when using the basic entry-level Canon kit plus the cheaper 50mm, for almost $200 more dollars. Canon can provide good equipment - but only if you're willing to spend serious money.

Yes your example was "clear", it is clear where your preferences ly that is.

Cuz to me it is CLEAR you are also left with a slower, nosier, lower resolution camera that delivers less detail and may have limited lens choices depending on type of shooting... but you obviously decided what features makes one camera handicapped but not the other.

But you are so right that one could save $200, but I would choose to buy the Rebel XT with that savings instead of the K100d, Of course the 4 shot burst of the K100D is not in any way handicapping but I prefer the 14 shot burst of the XT.

If you want to talk sports shooting, the K10D is now less than $100 more than the XTi and has unlimited continuous shooting. There are some nice high-end zooms but admittedly not as many as the competition, but they have a few new high-end zooms arriving later this year that should plug that gap. Of course, a pro sports shooter is highly unlikely to be using an XTi, so that's really not a valid comparison.

And for $100 more than the K10D one can get a Canon that shoots 8fps, which Pentax shall we compare with that?

Which nice high-end zooms are out there??


To anyone else reading this, I really like Pentax cameras I just cant understand this obsession that some have with them and discard as invalid any benefits that the competition offers.

Like this thread proves it is ok to compare the k100D vs the "clearly" handicapped XTI until we point out the obvious advantages that the XTI gives... Then it is proclaimed that we must now compare it with the K10D.

I guess you forgot your own quote
"we were talking about the K100D"

 

[Anewman]

Cease fire starting NOW...

 

[ukcatfan]

Cease fire starting NOW...

For the record, I stayed out of this one.

Kevin

 

[AZ JazzyJ]

Wow, who knew a simple request asking about a couple of brands could escalate into something resembling a mushroom cloud?

I think the OP got what they were looking for (this order may have been Super Sized at the counter). I appreciate everyone's views and I am really grateful that this was kept calm and civil.

Now that everyone has stated their cases, let's not forget the first rule of Scuba Diving:

Don't Forget to Breathe
​

Thanks everyone for the information. I think we've probably reached a point where views have been stated and all parties understand where each other are coming from. Maybe we should step away from the subject a little and go shoot some pictures (with a Sony, Pentax, Canon, Nikon, homemade pinhole camera, or whatever).

Jeff

 

[Anewman]

For the record, I stayed out of this one.

Kevin

Let the Record show that ukcatfan, abstained.

Or had internet issues.

 

[jmlaw]

I am very grateful for all of the opinions and the help in making my decision. It is nice to see such an enthusiastic group willing to help and who obviously feel passionate about photography.

 

[MICKEY88]

And I dont think anyone ever said they were not as good.

not directly but to state that anyone serious about advancing their talents/equipment would never buy them, pretty much implies that they are inferior..

Again I agree, but nobody mentioned "pro glass" exactly and at least those lenses you mention EXIST for Canon. the reference to going to a sporting event and looking at the photogs on the sidelines... would implu pro glass..

and each and everyone of those lenses exist for minolta/sony currently under the minolta name..soon to be released under the sony name as per this info from..PMA 2007...http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/13480/sony_alpha_slr/
I just get tired of hearing the doom and gloom stories that minolta/sony is dead, the same logic would imply that Chrysler is dead since they were just sold,


Now of course I was being over the top when I said it, I was just putting the spin on how a person with a XTI in their hands would somehow be considered "handicapped." But, can you honestly say the odds of finding NIKON glass are not higher than finding PENTAX glass at any local camera store(Try finding a Pentax lens for the SUPERBOWL period).

Maybe it is just me but I find it Ironic that someone shooting a Pentax DL would call somebody with a Canon XTI handicapped in anyway. But that is just me.

 

[Anewman]

not directly but to state that anyone serious about advancing their talents/equipment would never buy them, pretty much implies that they are inferior..

Well even though I dont agree with some of that statement, you really cant advance(upgrade) your "equipment" if you already own a brands highest model. Not a bad thing if you are happy with that model.


I agree with the rest of your statement 100%, I too tire of hearing warnings about buying Sony. And I wonder why nobody warns anyone about buying a DSLR from a company with only 5% market share, and in which that companies sale fell through.

 

[MICKEY88]

Well even though I dont agree with some of that statement, you really cant advance(upgrade) your "equipment" if you already own a brands highest model. Not a bad thing if you are happy with that model.


I agree with the rest of your statement 100%, I too tire of hearing warnings about buying Sony. And I wonder why nobody warns anyone about buying a DSLR from a company with only 5% market share, and in which that companies sale fell through.

to a point I agree with first paragraph,

however skill is as important as equipment, and type of shooting influences camera requirements,

realistically my 7D will do all I need it to, it gives me total control of settings easily, via dials rather than menus...

the only limitation is rapid sequence shooting,

and I don't do any sports where I need it,

on the other hand I do a lot of dance studio stuff, I'd gladly take the challenge of shooting against someone who can shoot 10 frames per second, years of experience have gotten me to the point that I can easily anticipate the shot, iknow when to take it, and consistanly get it with a single shot, no need to shoot ten to get one...


if Sony is committed like they say they are, and I have no reason to doubt it, since they realize the importance of capturing dslr market shares as well as p&s.

it's just a matter of time, 'till they hold a significant share, just like minolta did in the 80's and early 90's

in that period some of nikons cameras were sent for repair way more than minolta or canon, they were popping cameras out quickly to keep up with minoltas innovations, and quality suffered...

sony /minoltas design team is taking their time to get things right...

 

[Groucho]

Actually this thread was not about the k100d, so I guess only you are allowed to introduce other cameras into the discussion.

The DL had no place in this thread except as a direct shot at me; it hasn't been sold by Pentax in nearly a year.

Cuz to me it is CLEAR you are also left with a slower, nosier, lower resolution camera...

You leave my camera's nose out of this! Now that's a personal attack!

I do think that you seriously underestimate the competition. Most of the differences you speak of either don't exist or are so minute as to be unnoticable to the average shooter.

And for $100 more than the K10D one can get a Canon that shoots 8fps, which Pentax shall we compare with that?

Please do, I'm not aware of this wonder camera. A 30D costs $300+ more than a K10D (w/o lens) and does 5ps. The 5D costs $1,950 most and does 3fps. A Mark IIn costs $2,550 more and does 8.5fps. (And check back in a few months, Pentax has two new DSLRs coming this year and the rumors are that at least one will be positioned above the K10D, maybe 1.3 crop or maybe even FF sensor.)

The point is that we can play number games all day.

Like this thread proves it is ok to compare the k100D vs the "clearly" handicapped XTI until we point out the obvious advantages that the XTI gives... Then it is proclaimed that we must now compare it with the K10D.

Sigh..... for the last time, it was more about the lenses than the body, though again, I think you underestimate the K100D and overestimate the XTi.

One last thing, lest we lose all prospective... most any DSLR gives the photographer more tools in his arsenal than nearly any film camera, and photographers got along fine for years with those limitations. Anyone claiming that they simply cannot work without a top-line DSLR should remember that.

Jmlaw, I bet you never expect the Sony vs Nikon to go to Pentax vs Canon, I certainly didn't expect it to.

 

[Master Mason]

Just as a quick observation... the thing is each camera has good things and bad things, and those don't match up accross brands

The Nikon D40 is at one point, the XT is at another Different prices different products

The Canon 30D falls somewhere between the Nikon D80 and the Nikon D200, so which one do you compare it to?

The bottom line in all these discussions is do your homework, find out what you want, then decide what you really need vs what you want, then find the camera that covers your needs and the wants fit your budget.

then buy it and go take pictures as that's what it is all about anyway.



ETA I left out the pentax comparisons as I really don't know where they would fall in the comparison