Sometimes Y and W?

[browneyes]

I know that sometimes Y and W are vowels, but when are they vowels? Do you know a word where they would be considered a vowel?

Also, on Wheel of Fortune, you can't buy a Y or W, can you?

 

[floridaminnie]

There are two special letters in Arovën, w and y, which are intermediate between vowels and consonants, which may, on a few simple conditions, be used as either. They are classed as consonants, as that is how they are most generally used, but in syntactic words and sub-root (but never root) words they function as "minimalistic" vowels, the y as a degenerate i and the w as a degenerate u. That is to say, when they appear between two consonants (or before a consonant at the beginning of a word) they are pronounced with as little individual identity as vowels as possible, connecting consonants more or less directly. For instance, the feminine subroot ~yn is pronounced more or less as a pure "nn" sound, but with a "high" vowel character to it, rather than the "low" character of *wn (imagine saying "in" and the "un" of "under" and reduce these syllables to pure consonant "n"s -- the slight but noticeable difference between them is the difference between an yn and an wn. In fact the two are exclusive so thay can't be confused -- wn in particular is not a sound that actually appears in Arovën, and neither does yr as this sound has been modified to wr). That's all you really need to know as far as pronunciation goes (there are some details about the d which you need to know for flawless pronunciation, but we won't be that picky yet!); the rest of this page goes on about word construction, which you don't need to know about to speak Danovën; only read it if it happens to interest you.

 

[catsrule]

I knew Y was, didn't know about W. I learned something.

 

[Pop Daddy]

long answer Suzanne

 

[floridaminnie]

I had some extra time at my green light PD!

 

[browneyes]

Originally posted by floridaminnie
There are two special letters in Arovën, w and y, which are intermediate between vowels and consonants, which may, on a few simple conditions, be used as either. They are classed as consonants, as that is how they are most generally used, but in syntactic words and sub-root (but never root) words they function as "minimalistic" vowels, the y as a degenerate i and the w as a degenerate u. That is to say, when they appear between two consonants (or before a consonant at the beginning of a word) they are pronounced with as little individual identity as vowels as possible, connecting consonants more or less directly. For instance, the feminine subroot ~yn is pronounced more or less as a pure "nn" sound, but with a "high" vowel character to it, rather than the "low" character of *wn (imagine saying "in" and the "un" of "under" and reduce these syllables to pure consonant "n"s -- the slight but noticeable difference between them is the difference between an yn and an wn. In fact the two are exclusive so thay can't be confused -- wn in particular is not a sound that actually appears in Arovën, and neither does yr as this sound has been modified to wr). That's all you really need to know as far as pronunciation goes (there are some details about the d which you need to know for flawless pronunciation, but we won't be that picky yet!); the rest of this page goes on about word construction, which you don't need to know about to speak Danovën; only read it if it happens to interest you.

What the heck is Arovën and Danovën?

 

[floridaminnie]

Danovën (literally "language of logic") is the strictly unambiguous form of Arovën, the "language of thought"

 

[browneyes]

My thought and logic got jumbled.

 

[Pop Daddy]

Originally posted by floridaminnie
Danovën (literally "language of logic") is the strictly unambiguous form of Arovën, the "language of thought"

huh

 

[Pam]

What the heck is Arovën and Danovën?

You weren't content to just talk about the weather, were you Shannon???

 

[shep]

Don't worry Suzanne...Jason didn't read your post...lol

Never knew about the w either....

As for the Y...When you make something plural it turns into (ies)..so i can understand that..like fairy...fairies...

 

[browneyes]

Originally posted by Pam
You weren't content to just talk about the weather, were you Shannon???

We can talk about the weather too. Is it bathing suit weather yet?

Just be glad I don't post my most curious of questions, Pam.

 

[catsrule]

They never taught me about the W in school.

 

[browneyes]

Originally posted by catsrule
They never taught me about the W in school.

MJ, they told me about it, but I don't think they ever explained it to me (I might've been sleeping or daydreaming when they explained it though ).

 

[Cindy B]

Lets see,I have taught students that Y makes a /e/ sound.. when the vowel is short in the word.

For example, my name is Cindy

Y sounds E

The main vowel the i is short.

Tiny= same concept.

If the vowel is short, it determines the ending word, and how it is pronounced.

 

[phamton]

Y is a single vowel in words like 'by', fly,' and 'dry'. But it is also a vowel in words like sorry, baby, penny, rhythm, bicycle, rhyme, and probably.

When w follows o, and the o says it's name, the w is acting like a vowel (following the double vowel rule).

In these words: cow, town, brown, etc., w is a consonant.

In these words: tow, low, bowl, etc., w is a vowel. Notice the o is long and the w is silent.


I did a goggle search to see if W is ever used as a stand alone vowel and found that it does in a couple of obscure words like 'crwth' and 'cwm', both of which you can find in the dictionary, and in both of which W spells the vowel of 'moon'. That's because these words are taken from Welsh, in which W is *normally* used to spell this vowel.

Most linguist classify w and y as glides (semivowel and semiconsonant.)

 

[CALIFLADY]

What about bicycle? The long "y" is used as a vowel, right?

 

[phamton]

Originally posted by CALIFLADY
What about bicycle? The long "y" is used as a vowel, right?

It's funny you should mention that because the "cycle" part in bicycle is usually pronounced like the short i sound as in "sickle." Whereas the "cycle" in motorcycle is usually pronounced as a long i . In both words, the y is acting as a vowel.