Someone interviewed for a job at my work AND (Update #64)

OP, I understand that you are 'venting' here in your original post.
But, this is not about VENTING at this point.
Not if you are asking for real input and help and opinions.

Some of the others are right....
You have to come at this from the correct angle, and stay on the right track.
Everyone here is just warning and hoping that you don't come off in any conversation the way you are coming off here.
Nobody is trying to be hurtful.
I am just trying to be nice and helpful when I say that, from your posts, you are coming of as 'emotional', and not 'professional' and 'factual'.

While you were venting in your original post, at this point, you should be seeing this thread as a practice in handling this in a professional and unemotional and non-petty way.

And, realize, that from your original post, we didn't have enough true and professional sounding phrases and examples. Just words like 'WIERD' and general negative emotional feedback. So, remember that this is where some of the prev. posts are coming from.

Unfortunately, even venting here on the DIS... this was not a good way to start off.

There is a fine line here...
This person, who I imagine, is in a position above yours, has asked for your 'professional opinion'. This is an example where you, as an employee, have been officially asked to do something that would be helpful to this person and the company.

So, I wouldn't exactly sit idle. You can and should do/say something.

But, there is a fine line here.
You have to be VERY careful to not let your personal opinions and feelings of negativity show in any way at all.

If you can set a time to speak with this person in private, and can bite your tongue when it comes to any personal negative feelings and judgments. Then this is what I would advise that you do. If you can't control the emotion and bite your tongue... then you might want to think this thru a little further.

Some of the posts here are beginning to give you some good advice...
Reference things like "She seemed to be hesitant to interact with others and to work with the other employees as a team to resolve issues". "Did not seem to be effective at stepping up to the plate, as her position in HR and employee leadership, would have required." "Positive and effective communication skills." etc....

Use words like 'SEEM'...
And, 'From my, perhaps limited, experience/perspective..'

Do not issue any statement that assumes that everything is just as YOU seem to see it. (Even thought, it probably 99% was!!!)

It 'SEEMED' as if....
From my 'PERSPECTIVE'....

Don't issue any statements that sound like 'judgements'.

Offer your 'limited perspective'.

It is likely that this person will then pick up on where you are going, and ask you for more. this is where a few, simple, and UN-emotional examples might serve you well. Have one ready... And limit this... Don't get pulled into conversation and example after example... Or your feelings will show thru, and could likely come off, as others mentioned, as 'immature, emotional, petty, female, etc....'.

If this person presses for more personal thoughts and feelings, just let them know that you simply want to pass on the basics, and just leave it there. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

And, last but not least, while it pains you to do so... you will be seen more professional and unbiased if you BEGIN with one or two positives.
Surely you can come up with some simple, but not opinion swaying positives...
 
I totally disagree. If you say nothing, you are endorsing her as a candidate. That will reflect poorly on you. They want your feedback. Don't refuse to give it. Just give it in a way that lets them know you will work with whomever they hire, but you cannot recommend her for the position.

I agree- If I was the boss and hired someone that was an issue and had to go through the whole process of firing her and hiring someone else I would be really ticked at the OP for not giving me a warning!


HR avoids confrontation these days, and good luck getting in to talk to HR. They hide behind closed doors and if you do corner them they tell you to look it up on the corporate website.
Open enrollment has been very interesting this year. HR directs you to the website, and website directs you to your local HR person. A lot of finger pointing the other way.

That is EXACTLY how HR is at my job! Basically its "why are you bothering us with that??"
 
OP, I understand that you are 'venting' here in your original post.
But, this is not about VENTING at this point.
Not if you are asking for real input and help and opinions.

Some of the others are right....
You have to come at this from the correct angle, and stay on the right track.
Everyone here is just warning and hoping that you don't come off in any conversation the way you are coming off here.
Nobody is trying to be hurtful.
I am just trying to be nice and helpful when I say that, from your posts, you are coming of as 'emotional', and not 'professional' and 'factual'.

While you were venting in your original post, at this point, you should be seeing this thread as a practice in handling this in a professional and unemotional and non-petty way.

And, realize, that from your original post, we didn't have enough true and professional sounding phrases and examples. Just words like 'WIERD' and general negative emotional feedback. So, remember that this is where some of the prev. posts are coming from.

Unfortunately, even venting here on the DIS... this was not a good way to start off.

There is a fine line here...
This person, who I imagine, is in a position above yours, has asked for your 'professional opinion'. This is an example where you, as an employee, have been officially asked to do something that would be helpful to this person and the company.

So, I wouldn't exactly sit idle. You can and should do/say something.

But, there is a fine line here.
You have to be VERY careful to not let your personal opinions and feelings of negativity show in any way at all.

If you can set a time to speak with this person in private, and can bite your tongue when it comes to any personal negative feelings and judgments. Then this is what I would advise that you do. If you can't control the emotion and bite your tongue... then you might want to think this thru a little further.

Some of the posts here are beginning to give you some good advice...
Reference things like "She seemed to be hesitant to interact with others and to work with the other employees as a team to resolve issues". "Did not seem to be effective at stepping up to the plate, as her position in HR and employee leadership, would have required." "Positive and effective communication skills." etc....

Use words like 'SEEM'...
And, 'From my, perhaps limited, experience/perspective..'

Do not issue any statement that assumes that everything is just as YOU seem to see it. (Even thought, it probably 99% was!!!)

It 'SEEMED' as if....
From my 'PERSPECTIVE'....

Don't issue any statements that sound like 'judgements'.

Offer your 'limited perspective'.

It is likely that this person will then pick up on where you are going, and ask you for more. this is where a few, simple, and UN-emotional examples might serve you well. Have one ready... And limit this... Don't get pulled into conversation and example after example... Or your feelings will show thru, and could likely come off, as others mentioned, as 'immature, emotional, petty, female, etc....'.

If this person presses for more personal thoughts and feelings, just let them know that you simply want to pass on the basics, and just leave it there. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

And, last but not least, while it pains you to do so... you will be seen more professional and unbiased if you BEGIN with one or two positives.
Surely you can come up with some simple, but not opinion swaying positives...

:thumbsup2



Here is an example of something I might say about an old worker. Janie has great organizational skills and always came to work on time; however, she doesn't work well in a team environment and lacks important communication skills. Don't forget to give examples!
 

I'm speaking candidly to you all on this "venting and advice" thread. I would never say these things to the CEO. I come to the DIS where I can let my hair down, throw out a few vents, and hope that others have been in the same position and can provide advice. This is the one place where it should be safe to be human. I don't have to be the Mon-Fri professional today. I can be scared, intimidated, humble, and honest. A refreshing way that I can't be during the week.

I'm not looking for my every word to be dissected. I enjoy my new place of work where the environment is positive, and the people work together as a team. If I have to go back to working with someone who doesn't work well with others and is awkward to approach or speak with, it will make things difficult. I don't want to go backwards. I want to make a profound statement to the CEO without it sounding personal. That's all.

At the place of employment we were at together, this woman did the very bare minimum to get by. She would not support anyone in diffiicult situations, never wanted to be the bad one, and she let issues drag on that could've been resolved with a strong HR leadership ability. She had trouble with eye contact, conversation, etc. She clearly could not work with people.

I am going into a difficult situation soon that will require the assistance from HR. I have an employee who has exhausted her sick time benefits. She is requesting an extended leave of absence after coming back from her leave for only a week. I have been told that she is used to doing this and getting away with it. I need someone strong who will support me, the team, and the process moving forward.

I have 1 chance to get this right with my CEO. One chance.



This is what I would tell the CEO. There is nothing personal in this and it all relates to the work at hand. You need someone who can back up company policies; clearly this person cannot do this at all.

ETA: I would only change the "not support anyone" to "often she would not support" because most people don't like things like "always" and "never." HR people NEED to be able to handle eye contact.



I personally don't like two of our HR people but when asked, the number one reason I give is that they don't pick up the phone and answer emails up to a week after they are sent. We need answers much sooner than that. It isn't personal, it is the truth.
 
Huh. Our HR person works with people to try to find a solution, even when the proper answer is "talk to your supervisor".

Guess HR folks are different at different companies. ;)

It was vastly different 20 years ago, that was the first time I had ever worked somewhere with HR. They did work to find a solution, now they work to distance themselves, and the company from any problems.

My last 2 employers kept eliminating HR, then having one person remotely do it, then going back to HR on site. Seems to change every 3 years. Currently we have on site HR but she also handles 6 other locations in the western U.S. and is out of town about half the time. Corporate contracts with companies that provide online training for just about everything from harassment to ethics, and all our open enrollment. our HR has nothing to do with that.
 
Please don't spin this around on me, Art. I can promise you I'm not the issue here. I need real, solid advice I can take away from this thread. I don't need it to go awry like so many threads do here.

And to answer your question, I think she would tell the CEO that we didn't see eye to eye on situations. The problem here is that the 2 of us would essentially be in the same exact working environment as before. I would need her support in key HR issues. She would in turn, provide no support. She is very awkward to speak with.

I guess what I'm looking for are a few key choice words that I can use with my CEO tomorrow without making a big deal out of it. I don't think she would be a good fit for the company. I don't want to work with her again. She doesn't deserve a new opportunity with this high of a salary.

The CEO values my opinion as I am a key leader in the organization.

I don't want to make this seem like petty high school drama issues. She is in her high 50's, and I'm 40.
I know you have said that this is just a vent and you would not say this to your boss.

However, although venting, it comes across as you are quite jealous of this woman. Make sure you don't subconsciously let this flavor your tone of voice or word choice when talking about the woman. This kind of statement is the kind that can get you sued for slander if she does not get the job and finds out you badmouthed her for personal issues.

Make very, very sure you stick to facts, facts that can be proven. If you say she was unsupportive, make sure you give several examples of how she was unsupportive.

If she does not work well in a team, make sure you give examples of how she did not work well in a team. For instance, you were working on a group project and she was consistently missing the deadlines which put the rest of the group behind.

Your boss had a great interview with her, so weirdness, lack of communication skills or anything like that did not present itself in the interview. Your boss is impressed. So, you are going to need factual data to change his mind.

Make sure anything you say to your CEO is truthful, completely factual and can be proven.

On another note, I am curious why you have avoided answering the question several people have asked: were you the only one or one of the few that had troubles with her, or was it the entire staff?
 
/
I know you have said that this is just a vent and you would not say this to your boss.

However, although venting, it comes across as you are quite jealous of this woman. Make sure you don't subconsciously let this flavor your tone of voice or word choice when talking about the woman. This kind of statement is the kind that can get you sued for slander if she does not get the job and finds out you badmouthed her for personal issues.

Make very, very sure you stick to facts, facts that can be proven. If you say she was unsupportive, make sure you give several examples of how she was unsupportive.

If she does not work well in a team, make sure you give examples of how she did not work well in a team. For instance, you were working on a group project and she was consistently missing the deadlines which put the rest of the group behind.

Your boss had a great interview with her, so weirdness, lack of communication skills or anything like that did not present itself in the interview. Your boss is impressed. So, you are going to need factual data to change his mind.

Make sure anything you say to your CEO is truthful, completely factual and can be proven.

On another note, I am curious why you have avoided answering the question several people have asked: were you the only one or one of the few that had troubles with her, or was it the entire staff?

Jealous? Now you're really stretching. I really have to wonder about the people on this thread who seem so threatened by the idea that the OP knows that someone she worked with previously was not good at their job. It almost seems as if those posters have been the ineffective worker before and want others to keep quiet about their lack of skills.

The question "several people" asked was, I believe, asked by only one person a few pages back. And, if I'm to beleive several posters on other threads, that particular poster has a history of being confrotational in her previous incarnation on the Dis. Not someone I'd bother answering, either.

OP, I wish you the best of luck, and please let us know how it goes today!
 
Can you please stop talking about me this way? Your posts are very hurtful. It sounds like you turned a blind eye to your situation which is exactly what I'm hoping to avoid.

Nothing with this woman is personal. I would be very cordial if I saw her on the street. Every dealing I have had with her is work related, and it has never been about me. I have always been a director in both my previous role and this one. I basically came to this company as a lateral move. This woman would be doing exactly the same thing. Same positions, new company is what it boils down to. I couldn't get her to do anything at the last place which made everything so difficult. People became frustrated, decisions couldn't be made, nothing was happening, situations dragged on and on without any conclusions, etc.

I want to thank everyone for their advice, as I approach a very delicate and difficult conversation tomorrow with my CEO. He clearly values my opinion and I want to be sure he can come to me with anything in the future.

I never said I was going to tell the CEO that she doesn't deserve this salary. That is ME venting about someone who I've seen for YEARS come to work and do as very little as possible in her role. In fact, the work she has done has been detrimental. A good HR person can work with others, support the employees AND the organization, and know the facts. I have yet to see a spark of any of these attributes in her.

I am convinced that you take things too personal and get petty after.
 
Jealous? Now you're really stretching. I really have to wonder about the people on this thread who seem so threatened by the idea that the OP knows that someone she worked with previously was not good at their job. It almost seems as if those posters have been the ineffective worker before and want others to keep quiet about their lack of skills.

The question "several people" asked was, I believe, asked by only one person a few pages back. And, if I'm to beleive several posters on other threads, that particular poster has a history of being confrotational in her previous incarnation on the Dis. Not someone I'd bother answering, either.

OP, I wish you the best of luck, and please let us know how it goes today!

Giving the advice that she needs solid facts (as in examples) versus she just doesn't like her is appropriate and not reaching. OP does need to be careful that it is not personal but business. Sounds like she does have something concrete. But without her specifying what that was initially, we cannot tell her what words to use since she didn't actually tell us what the employee actually did.

ETA: and I did work with an incompetent employee once. To this day I can remember the specific examples of her incompetence. And she even threw me under the bus and blamed me for her incompetence thus adding lacks accountability to her ever growing list of nonsense. I was called at home on maternity leave to answer the training question and I listed each and every time she essentially sabotaged her training making it impossible for her to learn her required job skills. She was subsequently terminated.

If I came on the DIS back then and was that this employee was a poor worker and asked for advice--no proper advice could be given if I was vague and said I just didn't like her and didn't think she was good. Concrete facts are what is needed. So calling those who essentially said proceed with caution and use only facts and not feelings as potentially the ineffective employees is also reaching.
 
I don't blame you for not wanting to work with someone who you didn't have a great working relationship in the past. I think as long as you just keep your conversation with your CEO to a minimum, and can back up the reasons you give for her not being a good candidate for the position you will be okay. Good luck, and don't let the people here who apparently love all their coworkers get to you ;). We spend most of our waking hours at work, so why not do what is in your power to be happy there? It's not like you are trying to get her fired, for goodness sake, just keep her out of your work place if possible.
 
I don't blame you for not wanting to work with someone who you didn't have a great working relationship in the past. I think as long as you just keep your conversation with your CEO to a minimum, and can back up the reasons you give for her not being a good candidate for the position you will be okay. Good luck, and don't let the people here who apparently love all their coworkers get to you ;). We spend most of our waking hours at work, so why not do what is in your power to be happy there? It's not like you are trying to get her fired, for goodness sake, just keep her out of your work place if possible.

I agree with this. I think there are ways you can phrase what her issues are without making it sound personal. You have direct knowledge of her work style and it's not favorable. Just say what happened.

As a person who hires a lot, I can tell you that people are VERY reluctant to give me a negative opinion. Even people that I've had relationships with for years. I had to hire two "unknowns to me" a few years back and I went to everyone I could for references. No one would tell me anything negative. After a VERY long 8 months, I had those people removed from the office. It was that bad. Of course, after all that happened, everyone crawled out of the woodwork to tell me how weird those two were. Honestly, I have not gotten over those people "holding back" on me but I guess I sort of understand it. I just could never not be honest with someone about a "bad" employee and having them get stuck with them.
 
Jealous? Now you're really stretching. I really have to wonder about the people on this thread who seem so threatened by the idea that the OP knows that someone she worked with previously was not good at their job. It almost seems as if those posters have been the ineffective worker before and want others to keep quiet about their lack of skills.

The question "several people" asked was, I believe, asked by only one person a few pages back. And, if I'm to beleive several posters on other threads, that particular poster has a history of being confrotational in her previous incarnation on the Dis. Not someone I'd bother answering, either.

OP, I wish you the best of luck, and please let us know how it goes today!
Excuse me?

When one says "She doesn't deserve a new opportunity with this high of a salary," that is personal and highly charged emotionally. And when you say somebody doesn't deserve something, especially with a high salary, it comes across as jealousy, that you don't want this person to succeed.

Note: I said it comes across, not that she was jealous. It is good business sense, when one is highly emotional about somebody else, to make sure they watch their tone of voice and word choice to make sure they remain professional and do not allow that highly charged emotion to show through. Because if one does make an emotional statement, that reflects poorly on them not the person they are speaking about.

And since the boss obviously had a good interview with this person, there was no indication of weirdness, lack of eye contact or any of the other personality quirks the OP has described. Thus, it would not do well to mention those.

Sticking to verifiable facts is also good business sense. There is a reason that companies usually have a policy of not disclosing negative information about a former employee to a potential hiring company. People do sue if they do not get a job due to information disclosed about their previous job.

It would not be a problem for the OP if she tells her boss factual and verifiable incidents at her previous work that impacted the team. Those are facts. But emotional judgements of her character that can not be verified have the possibility of getting her in trouble.

This was not a slam on the OP. Just recommendations on how to present information to the boss without making herself look petty and jealous and by sticking to the facts and protecting herself when revealing information about the potential hire.
 
I can't stand her. I knew her from a previous job, and now she has applied for the HR Director position at my place! She interviewed on Friday, and my CEO e-mailed me asking if I knew her because of the same place we were at previously. I would be considered equal to her because of my position.

I truly dislike her and I'm not sure how to say it to the CEO. I know the CEO had a lot of interviews, and he is exhausted with it all now. The e-mail said he had a good conversation with her and she probably could do the job well.

WHAT DO I DO? I have only been in my new position for a short time so I don't want to screw this up. I don't want to sound unprofessional, but I would be extremely unhappy if she got the job.
Here is the problem: The lady is just plain weird. She also avoids confrontation and is very unsupportive. So, there is nothing extremely WRONG with her, other than the things I just mentioned. How do I tell the CEO that he shouldn't hire her without telling him what to do?


I see the CEO asked if you knew her, not for your thoughts about how she would fit in with the company or the position. :confused3


I would tell the CEO (I assume my post is too late since you're probably at work now) that you do know her and I would also try to give some sort of indication you have further information you would like to mention/discuss. In a situation like this, I would be thinking "me me me". Why? Because I need to provide for me and mine, not her or hers. If her working there will cause you stress and frustration, you bet your bottom dollar I'd be chirping like a bird about her.
 
I think a lot of people on this thread are underestimating the impact of corporate culture and fitting in as well...especially in management positions. I work in the accounting field so I often end up at companies with previous co-workers. Many times there are multiple candidates for a position that have the same basic backgrounds/experience. So its not an issue of if they can do the job, its more of can they "fit in" with the team. I have been asked that many, many times by CEO's/Managers not only in my current position but past jobs as well.

I would NEVER put anything in writing. I would start the conversation with trying to find out if the CEO is looking for an opinion of more the person's technical skills or their fitting in skills. Generally, I have found that they are more interested in the soft skills. You have to be careful with your wording, but absolutely its fine to give your opinion. There is nothing "petty" or "mean" about it. Now if you are the ONLY person that has a bad feel on this person, I would keep quiet. But it clearly seems like that is not the case here.

Good luck and please update us!
 
I was asked by my boss if I had worked with someone at a previous job site as they had applied where I currently worked.

I said "Yes" but was thinking "Please don' ask what I think of her". I did not want to have to say she did not do a good job, was always behind and asking others to do her work. I was sure that she would not be a good fit and really was not looking forward to working with her again. I was 100 percent positive that it would be a disaster.

Well the boss said "good I just hired her and I want you to orient her". To my surprise I found out that she was very good at the job, fit in to the culture very well and I now enjoy the days I get to work with her.

On the other hand I had someone I worked with in the past and was now working with at a new place tell me that she was glad the boss didn't listen to her when she told him to not hire me because I was incompetent. She said she was clearly wrong to have said that because she could see that I did know what I was doing and that I did a great job.

So as you can see I have been on both ends, it is a tough place to be.

OP I hope it all goes well for you. Please let us know how your conversation went.
 
For the record, OP, you did not come across as "jealous" of this woman in any way. Fearful that she might get the job and ruin your work atmosphere...yes. Angry that she might think she is worth that salary when she was not a good worker at all...yes. Worried that you might not be clear enough with your boss and he might hire her? Yep. Jealous? I just don't see it! Good luck today. I know how hard it is to work with people who do not have the same work ethic as you.
 
It sounds like you are in a pickle. You've gotten some good advice. I echo nothing in writing as pps mentioned. I think if you keep it relatively short, start and end on a somewhat positive note and state a pertinent fact or two in the middle you should be okay.

The thing is, your CEO might hire her no matter what you say. So, you don't want to put yourself in a hole if he really likes her and she's had great recommendations. It could backfire on you if you come across too strong.

You might want to say something like, "Shelia was good at identifying problems but from what I observed, she lacked timely resolution. It impacted the company in these ways, XYZ. I know you are looking for a decisive leader. She may have changed." (Something to that effect.)

Get in. Get out. Let the chips fall where they may. At least you would know you answered the CEO's question as fairly and concisely as possible.

Good luck.
 
Please don't spin this around on me, Art. I can promise you I'm not the issue here. I need real, solid advice I can take away from this thread. I don't need it to go awry like so many threads do here.

And to answer your question, I think she would tell the CEO that we didn't see eye to eye on situations. The problem here is that the 2 of us would essentially be in the same exact working environment as before. I would need her support in key HR issues. She would in turn, provide no support. She is very awkward to speak with.

I guess what I'm looking for are a few key choice words that I can use with my CEO tomorrow without making a big deal out of it. I don't think she would be a good fit for the company. I don't want to work with her again. She doesn't deserve a new opportunity with this high of a salary.

The CEO values my opinion as I am a key leader in the organization.

I don't want to make this seem like petty high school drama issues. She is in her high 50's, and I'm 40.

Wow. I'd tell him you know her and that's. it. You're making yourself look bad here and it would be a shame for your boss to see that side if you.
 
Wow. I'd tell him you know her and that's. it. You're making yourself look bad here and it would be a shame for your boss to see that side if you.

Right, because withholding the fact that this woman doesn't do her job effectively would be a great career move for the OP. I really don't think many people on this thread have ever worked as part of a management team. The misconceptions of what the CEO is looking for are astounding. The CEO was obviously looking to see if the OP thought the woman would be a good fit. If she says nothing, and they hire the woman, and she's incompetent, what do you imagine the CEO would think of the OP's business sense?
 













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