Someday I fear health insurance will be a thing of the past.

[thomas998]

I love my healthcare system. Our taxes are not that high, honestly not enough to equal losing my house to an unforseen accident. I feel sorry for those who have to pay thousands of dollar's when they already paid thousands out in premiums. Of course our system doesn't cover prescription or dentist but when my dd broke her femur landing her in the hospital for 6 weeks I was thankful for the government coverage. In ontario on our taxes we have a health tax that goes by income level, the highest you can pay is $900 at the $200,000+ tax bracket. IDK it's still a better deal then pay oop for insurance.

Is that $900/month? That would be over $10,000 a year... which if it doesn't include prescriptions is pretty high if you were a single person... Does it then increase even more if you have a family? Would also seem a bit unfair to hit a single person with the same bill as someone that was married with a dozen kids.

 

[eliza61]

Another Canadian who prefers our healthcare system, but admits not knowing all the ins and outs of the US system. I do know 2 friends who lived in the US and both developed cancer and had to return to Canada for free healthcare (canadian citizens) as they were a million dollars in debt and lost everything trying to fight it.

I QUOTE]

I think that was one of the myths bandy about during the healthcare debate. That all Europeans/Canadians are dying in hospital corriders waiting for treatment.
In-laws are portugese and my kids spend half their lives (not so much now) in Lisbon and I've been very very happy with the health care they receive. Now I'm not usuing it as a proponent for universal care simply stating that most Europeans I know and know well, no one is ready to flock to the states due to advanced medicine.

Anyway, did anyone see these articles yesterday. Health care premiums rose 9%!! last year. Inflation was only 3%. So in my opinion it's going to be moot. Well have universal hc simply because the general public cannot keep paying for anything that sees it's price rise 3X's the rate of inflation. So it will be a vicious cycle. as more and more people no longer can afford health insurance. more and more people will need some type of assistance.


Jump in 2011 outpaces rise in pay, inflation. Many workers face higher deductibles.

Day-care operations director Susan Kavchok dreads the 30th of each month.

That’s the day the $12,000 monthly health-insurance bill comes due for the three Childspace day-care centers in Philadelphia.

“It keeps me up at night,” she said. “We do it on the float — write the check and hope it doesn’t clear for two or three days before the parent fees come in.”

Childspace’s premiums have gone up — but then so have everyone else’s.

Indeed, the cost of health insurance skyrocketed in 2011 after several years of relatively small increases, according to a report released Tuesday by the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation in California and the Health Research and Educational Trust in Chicago.

Prices rose 9 percent for family coverage, with the average family premium reaching $15,073 and employees picking up $4,129 of that cost. In 2010, family premium prices rose 3 percent.

The premium increase far outstrips the 2.1 percent increase in workers’ wages and the 3.2 percent increase in the general inflation rate from April 2010 to April 2011.

“This year’s nine percent increase in premiums is especially painful for workers and employers struggling through a weak recovery,” Kaiser foundation president Drew Altman said in a statement. Why are costs up? At a news conference yesterday, Altman provided several explanations.

For one thing, insurers “pegged their premiums to an expectation of utilization that didn’t play out because the recovery sputtered out,” he said.

The translation: As the economy improved, insurers charged more, expecting companies to hire more people who would use more healthcare services. But halfway into the year, hiring stalled and so has use, even though the negotiated rate was already in place.

But there were other reasons, Altman said.

Among them, he said, were insurance company profits, which were up, and some new costs associated with two main provisions of the Affordable Care Act, signed into law in March 2010.

One provision allowed all young adults — not just those in college — to remain on their parents’ plan until age 26. About 2.3 million were covered, the study said.
The other provision prohibits plans from charging co-pays for annual checkups and other preventative care.

Together, those two provisions contributed to about a fifth of the 9 percent increase, the study calculated.

To cope with the increases, more companies are offering high-deductible health plans.

In 2005, these plans barely existed. Now 17 percent of employees are enrolled in them.

Most people are familiar with the idea when they buy auto insurance — a higher deductible means a lower premium.

Same with health insurance.

This is from the philly inquirer

http://philly.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx#

 

[CdnCarrie]

Do 50% of Canadians pay no income tax? In the US that is the case. That 50% will be surprised when they have to start paying.

I have no idea. If you work you pay taxes as long as you make over a minimal amount.

There will always be people who aren't working for whatever reason.

And some of the taxes come from sales tax. We are taxed at a much higher rate on goods and services. So even if someone wasn't paying income tax they would be buying goods and services.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Is that $900/month? That would be over $10,000 a year... which if it doesn't include prescriptions is pretty high if you were a single person... Does it then increase even more if you have a family? Would also seem a bit unfair to hit a single person with the same bill as someone that was married with a dozen kids.[/QUOT

No that is a year. Plus that is in one province only. Only 3 out of 10 provinces charge any kind of nominal monthly user fee.

 

[Colleen27]

Do 50% of Canadians pay no income tax? In the US that is the case. That 50% will be surprised when they have to start paying.

But for many it would be a net benefit, because that 50% that isn't paying are largely the working class who pay through the nose for health insurance or go without. We'd happily pay higher taxes rather than handing over $6000+ to an insurance company every year while still paying for all our medical care OOP because we never meet our deductible.

 

[bluehen]

Do 50% of Canadians pay no income tax? In the US that is the case. That 50% will be surprised when they have to start paying.

I am one of those 50%. Take a guess at the reason I pay no taxes. I am a pre 65 retiree with a major company that does subsidize (reduced for me due to early retirement) health insurance. My income was 25 k last year. Brought down 13k due to my healthcare premiums and deductible and copays. No real bad health issues. Me and my wife take a few prescription drugs daily and a stint in physical therapy. 10 k is just in premiums (remember it is subsidized too). Someone at my age(around 60) looked into healthcare due to a pending layoff. She had again minor health issues but nothing expensive and pretty much normal for a 60 yr old. She was quoted 2300 a month and that was just for her. Hard to do on unemployment.

Very ironic that my health care costs take an income that is somewhat comfortable down to below the threshold for paying taxes. With national healthcare my tax rate could go to over 50% and I break even.

PS Having dealt with both governments and insurance company's I would much rather have the government run my healthcare than my insurance company.

 

[neatokimmo]

She had again minor health issues but nothing expensive and pretty much normal for a 60 yr old. She was quoted 2300 a month and that was just for her. Hard to do on unemployment.

Same thing happened to my mom who is 63. She eventually chose a very limited cobra plan through her old job for 350ish a month but it won't stretch until she is on medicare. And truthfully, no one wants a 63 year old employee when they can get a younger one for cheaper so job with healthcare is out right now.

So next year she will be uninsured for 6 months. That will be fun.

 

[thomas998]

Is that $900/month? That would be over $10,000 a year... which if it doesn't include prescriptions is pretty high if you were a single person... Does it then increase even more if you have a family? Would also seem a bit unfair to hit a single person with the same bill as someone that was married with a dozen kids.[/QUOT

No that is a year. Plus that is in one province only. Only 3 out of 10 provinces charge any kind of nominal monthly user fee.

So in addition to the taxes that a Canadian pays that are used for the national health care they also get stuck with additional fees? Has anyone up there ever been told how much of their taxes are going to health care so the people can figure out how much they are paying in total? Or is it like the US where they use smoke and mirrors to keep people from knowing the true cost of anything the government does.

 

[twinboysmom]

So your husband has medical issues but they are not related to the infertility... Sorry I don't buy it. And simply because they can't tell you which gene is causing your infertility doesn't mean it isn't genetic. Doctors have not determined each and every gene and what it does in the human body, simply because they haven't determined which gene is causing your problem doesn't mean it isn't genetic. And if you want to talk about spouting opinion as fact consider what you said, " I am the most blessed mother in the world."... I'm willing to bet that there a lot of mothers that can and do believe the same thing, but surely they can't all be right now can they.

You truly are a very sad individual with obviously nothing better to do than to attempt to belittle others so that you may feel better about yourself. Nobody has to agree with the original OP about our healthcare system. You don't have to believe that we would be better with the Canadian system. I most surely do not. And it is great that we can come on these boards and listen to each others opinions. Nobody asked you to agree with anybody else's opinion. But all I have seen from you in every post is an attempt to put another individual down, from teachers to medically disabled persons, from those in a lower income bracket to infertile women.

Not that it is any of your business but my husband's medical problem had ZERO to do with our ability to conceive a child on our own. He had a very small tumor on his kidney which was remedied quickly by a scalpel in surgery. Not genetic, most probably due to factors of environment as we both grew up in the area of Louisiana known as cancer alley. Lots and lots of yucky chemicals released into the air by the plants (not those found in nature) while we were younger. Are you a geneticist? Are you currently doing research in a lab regarding infertility? Something tells me that you are not so once again you are showing your ignorance in your posts.

I am not sure why you felt the need to insult others by stating that people with infertility shouldn't reproduce. A lot of infertile women become so because they strive to meet YOUR ideal standards before reproducing. Before they are financially stable their eggs become "old". There are a lot more 20year olds that reproduce easily than 35 year olds. But it's a greater percentage of those 20year olds "stealing from your paycheck" when they have a baby than that financially stable 35 year old. As I said before, I paid for my own infertility treatments. Rest assured I have never stolen any money from your paycheck to have my children. We have also never received government assistance for anything, we are part of that 50% that pay income taxes, and we have our own health insurance policy. So tell me again exactly why you take issue with our family?

As for your issue in that I believe "I am the most blessed mother in the
world". Yes, I sure do. Every mother that I know on a personal level also believes this about themselves. It's a wonderful feeling to have. I am thankful that the technology exists that myself and many other women can wake up every morning with the millions of women who conceived naturally and feel
this way.

 

[Belle599]

So in addition to the taxes that a Canadian pays that are used for the national health care they also get stuck with additional fees? Has anyone up there ever been told how much of their taxes are going to health care so the people can figure out how much they are paying in total? Or is it like the US where they use smoke and mirrors to keep people from knowing the true cost of anything the government does.

It is $900 per YEAR, if you make over $200,000.

If you make $48,000, you would pay $450. This is on your annual income tax form. It is not actually paid annual, but deducted for each pay cheque along with the income tax that is deducted from you pay cheque.

This is only in the Province of Ontario.

 

[Belle599]

Is that $900/month? That would be over $10,000 a year... which if it doesn't include prescriptions is pretty high if you were a single person... Does it then increase even more if you have a family? Would also seem a bit unfair to hit a single person with the same bill as someone that was married with a dozen kids.

Hi, I tried to multiquote your post when I answered this question in my previous post (should be directly above), but it didn't work. Please see above.

 

[Belle599]

Do 50% of Canadians pay no income tax? In the US that is the case. That 50% will be surprised when they have to start paying.

Hi ilovemk76, I also love MK!

So my curious nature took over and I actually googled your question.

Here is an article that claims that 33% of Canadians paid no income tax and 45% of Americans paid no income tax in 2009. There is no source cited that I saw.

http://money.canoe.ca/money/mymoney/canada/tax/archives/2011/04/20110429-111031.html

 

[dcfromva]

Here is a link to wiki on the comparison of costs from different countries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States

This graph is a real eye opener:

Health care costs as a % of GDP

Current estimates put it at 16% of GDP for the US putting our country way ahead of the nearest country and yet not everyone is covered.....

Of the folks who are covered by insurance, the average cost of insurance surpassing $15,000 per year.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-27/health-benefit-costs-rise-most-in-six-years-surpassing-15-000-per-family.html

 

[dcfromva]

With all we (collective- we) spend on healthcare, I would expect insurance to do a better job of covering costs.

I also think the folks who are providing the care should be rewarded for all their work.

There is something wrong when the Dr actually providing the service receives less reward than the health ins company administering the plan.

 

[Muushka]

With all we (collective- we) spend on healthcare, I would expect insurance to do a better job of covering costs.

I also think the folks who are providing the care should be rewarded for all their work.

There is something wrong when the Dr actually providing the service receives less reward than the health ins company administering the plan.

This will become a HUGE issue if Obamacare comes to fruition. It will become very clear when the docs are not properly reimbursed and they choose to leave the medical field. Along with other health care providers. Yes, you will have insurance for health care. But good luck trying to find someone to treat you.

 

[dcfromva]

This will become a HUGE issue if Obamacare comes to fruition. It will become very clear when the docs are not properly reimbursed and they choose to leave the medical field. Along with other health care providers. Yes, you will have insurance for health care. But good luck trying to find someone to treat you.

Muushka,
The point is this is already a problem despite all the money we pay for health care.
My DH's practice (where he is seen) is in the process of converting to a concierge type practice.
The patient pays an annual subscription fee (I believe it is $1500 per year per patient) in addition to the health care insurance.
In checking around my area, there were several practices that were set up like this.

 

[mrodgers]

I hate that 50% number that always gets tossed around.

That "50% of Americans don't pay income tax" comes from the fact that the median income for a household in America is I think $53,000. At that income, a household isn't paying Federal income taxes and only IF the household has 2 children to get the child tax credit. It also depends on if you are paying into a retirement fund of which will be a tax credit if you are under $55,000. If you make that without children, you certainly are paying federal income tax. Not everyone has children and not everyone contributes to a retirement fund.

State taxes, at least in PA, you are paying regardless. There are no exceptions. Maybe in other states, but in PA you pay the taxes. Plus there is also local income taxes (1% in my case). So it is not a case of 50% don't pay income taxes. It is a case that a high percentage don't pay federal income tax, but it isn't 50% that people love to toss around because it sounds so extreme.

In 2009 I was just barely below that median income number. I have 2 children and also contributed a chunk into 401k. I broke exactly even and owed 0 federal taxes. Had it not been for putting into 401k, I would have owed about $2000 in taxes. In 2010, I still had 2 children and still had a chunk going to 401k, but I was just barely above the median level and could not apply my 401k contribution to a tax credit. I paid about $2700 in taxes.

That statement of "50% of Americans don't pay income tax" just gets under my skin.

 

[eliza61]

This will become a HUGE issue if Obamacare comes to fruition. It will become very clear when the docs are not properly reimbursed and they choose to leave the medical field. Along with other health care providers. Yes, you will have insurance for health care. But good luck trying to find someone to treat you.

Muushka,
Where are all these so called doctors who are going to leave their practices en masse next year? I've got way too many doctors inmy family and not a blessed one is going to change.

See, imo this is the kind of fear mongering that prevents any type of dialogue for a solution.

This is right up there with the "pulling the plug on grandmother" rethoric that prevents doctors from even discussing end of care options.

It's right up there with "canadians and europeans" are dying from lack of health care in a socialist system. My inlaws are Europeans, sure there are some who are unhappy but no one is dying in the halls while waiting for surgery. they have no longer waits than an uninsured person here.

We already have doctors who do not accept medicaid and medicare and next year they will still have the right to be selective on who they want to treat and what insurance they will or will not take.

I donot want universal care but I also am sick of all these "were becoming socialist" and "we're not going to be able to get health care" scare tatics.

 

[dcfromva]

While the practice is converting, they will continue to see their old patients--but the patients might have to be seen by a PA instead of a physician. (DH only sees a PA anyway once or twice a year anyway, so he couldn't see the benefit to paying the subscription fee)

 

[Muushka]

Muushka,
The point is this is already a problem despite all the money we pay for health care.
My DH's practice is in the process of converting to a concierge type practice.
The patient pays an annual subscription fee (I believe it is $1500 per year per patient) in addition to the health care insurance.
In checking around my area, there were several practices that were set up like this.

Point taken. And I agree with you. People seem to think that the gov can dictate how much docs should receive for payment for services. Nope, does not work that way. Look at medicaid and medicare. There are so many docs who choose not to deal with gov and lousy reimbursements. Can you imagine the fury if doctors are under pressure to take the lousy reimbursement of a single payer health care?

I know of a few docs myself who anticipate (fear) it and are planning on retiring early.