Someday I fear health insurance will be a thing of the past.

[justbishop]

[...snip...]

Dh has been working in what is basically a universal healthcare system his whole career, so 7 years now, and he loves it. He loves that if a kid needs a procedure or test, they just go down the hall and do it, and do not have to deal with insurance companies approving it. He can prescribe the drugs he thinks work the best, not what the parents can afford because everything is free.

[...snip...]

I find it amusing how the people in this thread who are against the US having universal care have only hypothetical "if the gov't takes over health care, _____ will probably happen, and OMG it'll suck!" comments to back up their opinions, while everyone who has actually LIVED such a system have overwhelmingly good things to say about it.

 

[Chris the CPA]

Physician salaries have been dropping like a rock since the insurance industry has taken over. Now most doctors make a barely comfortable living, but it takes a long time to get there because paying off med school debt is a killer. I know one internal med doc who had a quarter of a million dollars in student loans. And then, the pay for doctors is really low for a lot of years while they are still training. And then once they start making regular money, it's not nearly what other people think it is, especially for general practice.

A lot of doctors go through the military for their school and training, that's what my dh did, because med school costs are so out of control, and it is so hard to pay it back. A typical intern makes about 30k a year, resident about 35k a year, and fellow about 40k a year. We have been really lucky with the military, because dh's undergrad and med school were paid for, and we got a great salary to live on while he went. He's a fellow now, and we make awesome money for a guy in fellowship. However, once he is done with his fellowship, our income will be pretty pathetic compared to civilian neonatologists. I should say, that our salary is easier to live on because we are not swimming in student loan debt like civilians, are, and we have great health insurance.

Dh has been working in what is basically a universal healthcare system his whole career, so 7 years now, and he loves it. He loves that if a kid needs a procedure or test, they just go down the hall and do it, and do not have to deal with insurance companies approving it. He can prescribe the drugs he thinks work the best, not what the parents can afford because everything is free. At some point the military is going to kick him out, but he loves it. However, most of the civilian docs we know are either quitting, or planning to quit as soon as they can. One we know is going to go back and work on his family's farm. Others are leaving the US and working in Africa, so they feel like they are doing something important. One of them told me that she wishes she hadn't gone to med school and had just kept her job at Claire's at the mall. I think out of all of the doctors I know, maybe 5% are happy they went to med school and want to continue working as physicians. Most of them say it is not what they thought it would be, and that the insurance companies have them by the throat.

You do realize none of it is free. You and I pay all the cost through taxes.

 

[Chris the CPA]

Canada, UK, and France have no where the near the population of the US. We have more people who do not pay taxes than the total population of each of these countries. The innovations in medicine are paid for by the profit made in the US. The yearly R&D budgets of Merck or Roche are almost as much as some small country's GDP.

 

[justbishop]

Canada, UK, and France have no where the near the population of the US. We have more people who do not pay taxes than the total population of each of these countries. The innovations in medicine are paid for by the profit made in the US. The yearly R&D budgets of Merck or Roche are almost as much as some small country's GDP.

If you read the rest of the thread, it has been established that US companies are not the only ones making advancements in medical research.

 

[Chris the CPA]

If you read the rest of the thread, it has been established that US companies are not the only ones making advancements in medical research.

Perhaps you should spend the time and read what I said closer. I said the profits used to fund the research are made in the US.

Also, just because someone said something was discovered in Germany does not make it so.

 

[leahjade]

Studies published by diMasi et al. in 2003 report an average pre-tax cost of approximately $800 million to bring a new drug to market. A study published in 2006 estimates that costs vary from around $500 million to $2 billion depending on the therapy or the developing firm

!

 

[leahjade]

everyone who has actually LIVED such a system have overwhelmingly good things to say about it.
Today 09:15 AM

Didn't work so well in Massachusetts! The cost of Massachusetts' plan has increased by a staggering 42% since 2006. In order to control costs, the current governor is considering price controls, limits coverage, more exclusions, and an overall spending cap.
Some countries in Europe may go a step further by limiting the treatment available for the elderly, terminally ill, and infants. According to USA Today Cost-cutting has also hit Switzerland. The numbers of beds have dropped, hospitals have merged, and specialist care has become harder to find. A 2007 survey found that in some hospitals in Geneva and Lausanne, the rates of medical mistakes had jumped by up to 40%. Long ranked as having one of the world's top four health systems, Switzerland dropped to 8th place in a Europe-wide survey last year.

 

[angwill]

Perhaps you should spend the time and read what I said closer. I said the profits used to fund the research are made in the US.

Also, just because someone said something was discovered in Germany does not make it so.

Really, do you know of an implanted insulin pump available here in the US like it is in Germany?

Just because you feel something is so and I quote from your above post "Canada, UK, and France have no where the near the population of the US. We have more people who do not pay taxes than the total population of each of these countries. The innovations in medicine are paid for by the profit made in the US. The yearly R&D budgets of Merck or Roche are almost as much as some small country's GDP." doesn't make it so either. We choose to believe what we know and what we choose to believe.

 

[DISNEYSIX]

while everyone who has actually LIVED such a system have overwhelmingly good things to say about it.

LOL. Overwhelmingly good things to say about having to wait 6 months or so to have a hip replacement operation? Socialist medicine sucks and the last thing I want to do is to short-change my doctor. Don't you see what is happening to Europe and the nanny state agenda that they have embraced? It doesn't work.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I find it amusing how the people in this thread who are against the US having universal care have only hypothetical "if the gov't takes over health care, _____ will probably happen, and OMG it'll suck!" comments to back up their opinions, while everyone who has actually LIVED such a system have overwhelmingly good things to say about it.

My mother lived and worked in that system.

She is now 100% disabled due to the incompetence of such system that misdiagnosed her issue for 5 years before finally agreeing to do an MRI and confirming that she had suffered fracture in her spine that healed wrong. (Clarification: It took them 5 years to find that there had been a fracture.)

Oh--then there was the denial of services when she presented with 3rd degree burns on her leg, but out of uniform. She went to a civilian doctor and got excellent care and had to fight her way to get the military to pay her bill.

Then I have my friend currently in the military with an ongoing issue. She cannot find any relief with the issue--and the doctors are just taking their sweet time in it. She has gotten the assistance of a relative physician to know exactly what to ask for--but no luck.

Free healthcare is handy--but to assume that it isn't without very serious issues is naive.

Don't get me started on the charities that help our wounded soldiers because the services aren't sufficient enough to take care of them all in the existing system. The service men and women don't pay--but it required privately raised funds to help them.

Tried to just read the thread--but thought I would pop in with my friends/family experiences.

 

[CdnCarrie]

LOL. Overwhelmingly good things to say about having to wait 6 months or so to have a hip replacement operation? Socialist medicine sucks and the last thing I want to do is to short-change my doctor. Don't you see what is happening to Europe and the nanny state agenda that they have embraced? It doesn't work.

So all of us who have already stated in this thread that we are satisfied with our socialized medicare are lying. Only YOU know our true feelings? Are you calling us liars?

Even through France\s medical system is rated the best in the world with the U.S. at #37 (below Canada by the way) your ego is too large to admit
socialized medicine does work? How do so many socialized medical systems beat out the U.S. in rankings if they are not working? Where is your factual proof to back up your very absurd accusations?

 

[Amii]

I don't know that is is so much due to required health care. I am in a state that does not have required health care and to compare we are in the same boat.

Our doctors in town keep changing due to the changes in the hospitals they work under. We never can seem to keep the same ones either and they change just about yearly.

My son needed a dermatologist and the closest one was an hour away and it took us 8 months to get in to him because there just are not a lot of dermatologists. Also if it is acne your at the bottom of the list and wait longer vs if it is a possible cancer spot you get in quicker.

Around her the insurance a doctor agrees to take depends on the hospital they work under and what insurances that hospital decides they can or can not take.

I also have a few good friends who live in MA and they claim that a lot of MA residents choose to pay the penalty for not having insurance vs paying the high cost of private insurance. It is cheaper to pay the fine.

Oh and I just looked up endocrinologists in my state and our closest is an hour and a half away. There are not many in that specialty here either.

We used to have plenty of doctors in MA until the health care reform took place. Boston has many teaching hospitals. If it were not for the teaching hospitals many people would not have a doctor or specialist at all. Too many private practice doctors have left.

It is true that many people in MA do not have health insurance. Many can not afford it. If they can't pay for it now how will they be able to pay for it when the national health care reform kicks in? I don't see how anything will change for people can not afford it.

 

[Tink-aholic]

Really, do you know of an implanted insulin pump available here in the US like it is in Germany?

I don't understand this question. We have implanted insulin pumps in the US. I work with a woman who has one.

If you were indicating that it was invented in Germany...of that, I have no idea.

 

[angwill]

I don't understand this question. We have implanted insulin pumps in the US. I work with a woman who has one.

If you were indicating that it was invented in Germany...of that, I have no idea.

Well it is great to hear that it has finally been made available in the US. When my niece got hers she was a child in Germany and it was a first and unheard of here in the US.

Besides this was actually for Chris the CPA who seems to be trolling and doubted what I originally wrote.

 

[Tink-aholic]

duplicate.

 

[DISNEYSIX]

So all of us who have already stated in this thread that we are satisfied with our socialized medicare are lying. Only YOU know our true feelings? Are you calling us liars?

Even through France\s medical system is rated the best in the world with the U.S. at #37 (below Canada by the way) your ego is too large to admit
socialized medicine does work? How do so many socialized medical systems beat out the U.S. in rankings if they are not working? Where is your factual proof to back up your very absurd accusations?

The rankings are misleading because they take into account those who do not have private health insurance. My privately funded health care beats any publicly funded health care hands down in terms of cost, wait times and coverage. You want proof? Just look at the number of foreigners who come here for their emergency medical needs.

 

[Tink-aholic]

I have worked in health care in both Canada and the US. Just last year, my Canadian friend found a breast lump. My friend was going to have to wait six to eight months for a mammogram just to diagnose the lump, whereas I could make a call in the US and get a mammogram the next day. Obviously, I don't have to tell you that that much time could make a significant difference in treatment if the lump turned out to be cancer.

I was making plans to bring my friend here and we'd pay out of pocket for the test, but luckily, my friend is in the military and pulled some strings very hard to get a mammogram faster and the lump was benign. But what would the average person do?

In my experience, socialized medicine gives everyone equal access to the same crappy system.

 

[sukhakuli]

You do realize none of it is free. You and I pay all the cost through taxes.

Sort of. He also is contracted to work for the military for a certain number of years, so they trade. They pay for the school, he works for them for a very long time. Dh joined the military in 1996 and cannot leave until 2022. He cannot leave before then, under any circumstances. He is completely at the Navy's mercy, so if they decide to deploy him, or send him overseas unaccompanied, or even tell him that he can't be a doctor anymore, or what type of doctor he will be, then they have the right to do that. For instance, he is a pediatrician, but they sent him to Afghanistan for 15 months doing adult trauma. He'd never taken care of adults, and not too many kids step on IED's or get shot. But that's what they expected him to do. And I should say he did it very well, and was written up in the international news for some of the things he did and received a very high medal, as well, so no matter what he is good at what he does.

So,it is not like you are implying, that the taxpayers are giving him a free education - he is working for that education.

 

[CdnCarrie]

The rankings are misleading because they take into account those who do not have private health insurance. My privately funded health care beats any publicly funded health care hands down in terms of cost, wait times and coverage. You want proof? Just look at the number of foreigners who come here for their emergency medical needs.

Keep telling yourself that and I guess you start to believe it.

I have lived in Canada all my live and have never known anyone personally to even consider going to the US for healthcare. ANd like I posted earlier when I had my laser eye surgery done several years back most of Minnesota and North Dakota were in the waiting room.

 

[CdnCarrie]

I have worked in health care in both Canada and the US. Just last year, my Canadian friend found a breast lump. My friend was going to have to wait six to eight months for a mammogram just to diagnose the lump, whereas I could make a call in the US and get a mammogram the next day. Obviously, I don't have to tell you that that much time could make a significant difference in treatment if the lump turned out to be cancer.

I was making plans to bring my friend here and we'd pay out of pocket for the test, but luckily, my friend is in the military and pulled some strings very hard to get a mammogram faster and the lump was benign. But what would the average person do?

In my experience, socialized medicine gives everyone equal access to the same crappy system.

According to this report it takes roughly 2-4 weeks to get a mammogram in Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2009/05/07/breast-cancer-early-diagnosis-gattuso.html