Some true facts regarding BWV & OKW room sizes

Status
Not open for further replies.

DeeP

DIS Veteran
Joined
Aug 19, 1999
Messages
2,460
After reading the following statement adnauseam and having seen numbers be exaggerated and or plain out right lies, I decided to run a few of my own numbers...........
OKW rooms are 25% larger the BWV/VWL/BCV rooms. BWV point schedules are 25-100% higher then OKW. BWV dues are more than 25% than OKW. Therefore, BWV dues are 75% than OKW per sq ft per night.

Upon averaging out the room sizes for a studio, 1 BR, 2 BR, and GV, the OKW rooms are 16.5% larger NOT 25% larger and the funny thing is the GV where this poster ALWAYS stays is a whopping 5.5% bigger at OKW than at BWV!

The dues at BWV are 22% more NOT "more than 25%" than OKW. Or in dollar and cents for a 150 pt contract the dues at BWV are a whopping $105.00 more per year or $8.75 per month. I used the smallest contract amount just to get the figures; it can, of course, be adjusted according to the total number of pts of the contract for the yearly cost but the % of difference remains the same it is 22%.

To calculate the point difference I used the BWV standard view since that is most comparable to OKW since there is only one view available at OKW and none have ,of course, a boardwalk or pool view. I used weekly point allottment of pts for both resorts since that is how the points are allotted/balanced by Disney.

Adventure Season (Weekly)
Studio BWV 6% higher
1 BR BWV 1% higher
2 BR BWV 2% higher
GV BWV 50.5% higher

Choice Season (Weekly)
Studio BWV 6% higher
1 BR BWV 1% higher
2 BR BWV 2% higher
GV BWV 50.5% higher

Dream Season (Weekly)
Studio BWV 9% higher
1 BR BWV 7% higher
2 BR BWV 8.8 % higher
GV BWV 50.5% higher

Magic Season (Weekly)
Studio BWV 2% higher
1 BR BWV 2% higher
2 BR BWV 3.3% higher
GV BWV 50.5% higher

Premier Season (Weekly)
Studio BWV 7% higher
1 BR BWV 4.5% higher
2 BR BWV 5.1% higher
GV BWV 40.5% higher

The only BWV that is substantially higher is the GV and even that is at most 50.5% more per week, not 100% more. To figure the units out on a nightly basis is not the way Disney has allotted the pts, however if you want to calculate the pts on a nightly basis then again the only unit that is 100% more for Sun-Thurs only is the GV. For all the other units the % difference is a far, far cry away from even 25%, let alone 100%, no matter whether you calculate the points on a nightly or weekly basis!!!!

So if you want to throw around figures, use the correct numbers. :D
 
Thanks for the comparision DeeP. I know boardwalk is smaller, but 25% smaller is just not true. Looks like there is starting to be a pattern regarding the posting of false information, thank you for clearing things up and providing the board with the correct facts.
 
Since we're throwing around facts and figures, lets be a little more accurate with some of our assumptions. ;)


While your 22% figure is certainly more accurate than the wild 25% figure so balatantly used- OKW does have 3 views (all of which cost the same number of points). There are water views, golf course views and woods views- all are Preferred!

You neglected to include the vast majority of BWV rooms in your cost comparison, as the standard view rooms at BWV only comprise about 20% of the rooms. (Please check that figure for accuracy, as I'm not sure if it's 20% or 18% or 22%.) The BWV Preferred View rooms cost many more points, but were strangely omitted from your "factual" report!

The dues change every year- and at one time the difference between OKW and BWV dues was greater than the current variation. You can refigure those differences from prior years to truly offer the facts.

You might also want to provide size difference percentages based on each room size, as merely averaging all rooms doesn't offer an accurate average since OKW has so many more GV's than BWV and BWV doesn't have any dedicated 2BRs at all.

If we're really taking others to task for being a little loose with their facts, please make sure to tighten up your own! ;)
 
......And the debate goes on......and on.....
DVC is expensive but have some of the nicest resorts we have ever stayed at. We prefer OKW but also own at BWV and BCV, so the others must have something OKW doesn't have.
This horse is dead, buried, decomposed and who really cares.......spruce
 

The following square footage numbers have often been posted on this board:

Studio
BWV - 359 sq ft
WLV - 356 sq ft
OKW - 376 sq ft
BCV - 356 sq ft

One Bedroom
BWV - 712 sq ft
WLV - 727 sq ft
OKW - 942 sq ft
BCV - 726 sq ft

2 Bedroom
BWV - 1,071 sq ft
WLV - 1,080 sq ft
OKW - 1,333 sq ft
BCV - 1,083 sq ft

Any comparsion that tries to average the room sizes is meaningless because no rooms of "average size" actually exist.

But it is meaningful to compare comparable room sizes:
  • For studios, the difference in room size is so small as to be almost of no consequence. Anybody expecting a much larger room at OKW will be disappointed.
  • For 1BR and 2BR units, OKW units are significantly larger -- 32% and 24%, respectively. OKW has substantially larger living rooms and kitchens than the other on-site DVC resorts. And OKW also has spacious balconies. The dining table at OKW is a large round table with 4 chairs; By bringing in the chairs from the 2nd bedroom, it seats 6.
We tend to stay in 2BR units during Magic Season. A full week at OKW is 296 points, while at the other resorts (except for the ellusive BWV standard view), it's 350 points. That's 18% more at the other resorts.

Statistics can be manipulated in any way you want to prove any point. What I've tried to do is to point at real comparsions based on how I use our DVC points. Your mileage may vary.
 
"There are water views, golf course views and woods views- all are Preferred!"
Depends what someone considers preferred. Watching old people in plaid pants and green shirts, try to golf by your' window (looking for their balls) at 7 A.M. preferred? don't think so, or watching the water for 5 minutes, oh boy! oh yeah, and the woods, don't have them anywhere else, (All-Stars have some wood views too), you left out the bunnies, and the wild buses.

I still don't understand why so many non BW owners care that the BW has higher dues, higher rooms costs, and slightly smaller units than Okw. Who cares? Don't stay there. Please!
You can sit in your okw room, stare at the bunnies all day, maybe measure the room again, and while you're wondering where you are going to DRiVE to later, keep telling yourself, "at least my rooms were cheaper and we can eat at our table that seats more than two. I hope I bought enough food, 'cause I'm not sure how late Olivia's stays open".
I'm not sure if it happens, but when the people staying at the All-stars drive by the Grand Floridian and see all the fun they're having, they probably tell their kids, "that can't be fun, that costs too much money,and OUR rooms are cheaper".
:jester:
 
Originally posted by Peterd
I still don't understand why so many non BW owners care that the BW has higher dues, higher rooms costs, and slightly smaller units than Okw. Who cares? Don't stay there. Please!
My reply (and several of the others) in this thread have questioned the "true facts" at the top of this thread.

I don't care so much that BWV has higher dues, higher rooms costs, and "slightly smaller" units than OKW. I do care when someone tries to present meaningless averages (based, among other things, on ignoring BWV Preferred View points rates and giving eqaul weight to rare GVs and plentiful 1BRs) as "true facts."

The DVC resorts are all wonderful. And we're all allowed to have our favorites. But a lot of people read this board, including new members and prospective members, and we have a responsibility not to mislead or to present "true facts" that aren't.
 
/
FACTS from FAQ right here on Dis:

RE: BWV
These truly grand villas average 2142 square feet in size.


RE: OKW
Grand Villa - 2,022 sq. ft.

And that's the facts Jack!
 
Originally posted by SwampFox
The BWV Preferred View rooms cost many more points, but were strangely omitted from your "factual" report!

Deep,

You must have forgot about the pt differences for preferred view at BWV's:confused: .
 
Since OKW only has one type of view available at their rooms and does not have a 2 tiered pt plan it seems correct to compare the BWV standard view to OKW only type of view. To compare a BWV boardwalk view to a OKW golf course or woods view is really not comparing equal things! I stated this in the beginning of my post.

As far as the room size differences actually the 1 BR at OKW is 1,016 not 942 sq feet according to the facts listed on Deb Willis site, so I actually gave 74 more square feet of credit to OKW!

As far as actual room size % differences, no problem here they are:
Studio OKW 3.5% larger
1 BR OKW 42.5% larger (this is the biggie!)
2 BR OKW 23.5% larger
GV OKW 5.5% larger
If you want to use the sq footage of 912 for a 1 BR at OKW, no problem then a 1BR at OKW is 32.5% larger not 42.5% larger.
I averaged out the room sizes since that is how it has always been posted over and over "25% larger rooms" --no breakdown according to units in that statement! But now you have a breakdown.

As far as the dues, I used 2002 dues since that they are the current dues amounts, makes sense to me, maybe you think we should use dues from 5 years ago? What bearing would that have on today?????????? What you paid in the past or might possibly pay in the future has no bearing on what you are currently paying or will pay if you buy a DVC membership today!

I agree we need to present new or possible DVC members with facts that are true and the facts that have been repeated over and over and over and over, etc here are far from the truth.
 
To compare a BWV boardwalk view to a OKW golf course or woods view is really not comparing equal things!

I admire your passion for your resort, DeeP, and I'm trying my best to stay out of this...

But you must honestly admit that the above statement is truly based on opinion, not fact...

Remember. A "preferred" view at BWV does not <i>only</i> refer to a Boardwalk view, but also a "water" view - canal to MGM, Luna Pool, and the quiet pool. OKW has "water" views, also.

You <i>are</i> correct - you're <i>not</i> comparing equal things between the two views - but one isn't necessarily going to be the "better" in the opinion of <i>everyone</i>.
 
AnnK,
I looked up the GV sizes on both the DIS and on Deb Willis website and DIS has BWV listed as 2142 , OKW listed as 2,022, while Deb Willis site has GV BWV listed as 2,142, OKW listed as 2,265. There is also a difference in the 1 BR-Dis has OKW listed as 912 while Deb Willis has it listed as 1,016. Knowing how "size sensitive" some OKW owners can be I gave OKW the benefit of the doubt and used the higher sq footage for both the OKW GV and 1 BR. I certainly did not want anyone to say my facts were "not true facts or loose facts". :D

ncligs,
I did not forget about BWV preferred views but as I explained twice now I was doing a fair comparison and comparing OKW golf course view or woods view to a boardwalk view at BWV is like comparing POFQ water view to YC boardwalk view. POFQ water view is very nice but does not compare to a boardwalk view from YC.
 
"facts that have been repeated over and over and over and over, etc here are far from the truth"

Agreed. This is a problem. Thank you for your efforts to address this and the time invested to do the homework you did above to provide factual information, especially for those considering membership.
 
DeeP, I completely respect your passion for BWV. You are just as committed to your resort as Richyams is to OKW. As an owner at both resorts--and at the new BCV--I feel I can legitimately make a comment here. Saying that the views at OKW--water, golf course and woods--are standard and comparing them to the standard views at BWV--which are primarily views of the parking lot and cochere, is just off-base!! IMHO, it is not a "fair comparison." For a truly accurate comparison, you need to compare OKW to the BWV preferred views. Yes, the BWV preferred views include overlooking the Boardwalk, but they also include views of pools and waterways. While you find overlooking the Boardwalk to be an incredible view, there are others who would think it is much too hectic and noisy. We are fortunate that Disney has created resorts with different atmospheres so everyone can be happy. Frankly, I cannot understand why people have to get so disagreeable about all of this.
 
Since DeeP didn't seem to want to run all the numbers, I did. Below is the spreadsheet I created to compare points at OKW with BWV for 1 week for each size unit in each season. It includes both standard view and preferred view.

The calculation I used to show how much more expensive BWV is compared to OKW was:

(BWV points/OKW Points) / OKW Points

Enjoy!

Adventure
OKW 80 160 218 356
BWV-S 85 162 222 558
BWV-P 104 200 270 558

%SV 6.3% 1.3% 1.8% 56.7%
%PV 30.0% 25.0% 23.9% 56.7%

Choice
OKW 82 172 232 372
BWV-S 87 174 236 587
BWV-P 106 214 282 587

%SV 6.1% 1.2% 1.7% 57.8%
%PV 29.3% 24.4% 21.6% 57.8%

Dream
OKW 98 196 263 439
BWV-S 107 210 286 676
BWV-P 123 252 314 676

%SV 9.2% 7.1% 8.7% 54.0%
%PV 25.5% 28.6% 19.4% 54.0%

Magic
OKW 109 218 296 501
BWV-S 111 222 306 800
BWV-P 134 270 350 800

%SV 1.8% 1.8% 3.4% 59.7%
%PV 22.9% 23.9% 18.2% 59.7%

Premier
OKW 147 296 405 654
BWV-S 156 310 426 966
BWV-P 181 350 462 966

%SV 6.1% 4.7% 5.2% 47.7%
%PV 23.1% 18.2% 14.1% 47.7%
 
To compare a BWV boardwalk view to a OKW golf course or woods view is really not comparing equal things

When BWV opened, there was one view. OKW and all other DVC's (with the exception of Vero Inn) have one view. The "standard view" at BWV is an abberation brought about by members throwing fits when given rooms that were on the parking lot. I know these rooms are fine and that people like the lower point cost but that is not where comparison of DVC resorts should be made. The "preferred view" is really the actual point cost. Standard view is just a nice way of saying we'll give you a break if you'll take this less desirable view.
 
VWL and BCV all have the same "point chart" does that make all their views PREFERRED?

BWV did open with only one point chart, the "standard" was added later, and obviously is popular because you need the 11 month window to get them. I have stayed in a standard view, they are not "on the parking lot". They actually are nice, and have a FANTASTIC view of the fireworks at Epcot,and it was in one of these rooms that we witnessed the space shuttle taking off, not a bad view at all.......

DeeP,
I applaud you on giving OKW'esters the higher of the reported GV sq. footage. I figured the "Dis" would be the source and whatever it reported would be the final word. I LOVE the BW GV's, I find they FEEL more spacious than the OKW GV's ( Each time I stayed I have only gotten the single story, so I cannot comment on the two story.)
 
Robinb, thanks for the post. That should put all the 'numbers' questions to rest at least.

You didn't say in your post, but it looks like you're comparing a full 1-week stay in each type of accommodation: Studio, 1B, 2B, GV.

You might want to edit and clarify that.

P.S., If you'd ever like to know how to put your spreadsheet right on the DIS boards, let me know and I can tell you how. This assumes you're using Windows and Excel. That would save you from retyping all the information. Although it may not save any time, it will be in a chart format.
 
I find they FEEL more spacious than the OKW GV's
I'm not exactly sure how a smaller room "feels" bigger, but it's probably because of the 3/4 size furniture it's outfitted with.

BenStone
 
We've stayed at BWV 3 times on preferred points and always requested a BW view at 11 months and never got one. Maybe this summer will be different. We've always had golf or water views at OKW which are gorgeous. We've only ever overlooked a pool at BWV on preferred points which we don't think is gorgeous in any way but we do think is costly point wise. How is it that some are so lucky to get a bw view time after time. A third chart for BW only views won't ever be made but the value at BW is in a standard unless you get the BW view.
An expensive preferred pool view is not better at BWV then a lower point water view at OKW. Maybe I'd feel better if I'd gotten a BW view once. Instead, 3 times we've been to BW and been disappointed with our room location. I don't like going on vacation and being disappointed, which has never happend at OKW.
They are both beautiful resorts but OKW has been a better value to purchase, pay dues on, get better views and have more space. BW has charged more points for less desirable views but we can walk to 2 parks and eat at several resturants. It'll be standard from now on if a BW view doesn't come our way this summer. The value isn't there in a preferred. I am 100% sure of that for those that keep doing percentages......spruce
 
Status
Not open for further replies.















DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter

Back
Top