Some leftover drama from yesterday.....should I be mad?

[cm8]

I can understand your not wanting/allowing her to go to that busy street by herself, but if she is with her dad, I don't see it as a problem. She's his daughter too. I don't think he would do anything to put her in danger.

Agreed!

 

[crashbb]

Actually, you are wrong.

In 2008, 37,261 passengers were killed in car accidents in the United States.

In comparison...

In 2008, 4,378 pedestrians were killed by being struck by a car in the United States.

Coincidentally, the leading cause of death for kids between 2 and 14 is motor vehicle accidents.

That doesn't actually prove the PP wrong. The PP said that a pedestrian IN AN ACCIDENT is more likely to die then a car passenger IN AN ACCIDENT.

The part I capitalized is important and not addressed by the statistics you provided. You'd need to know how many total passengers were involved in car accidents and how many total pedestrians were involved in car accidents (in other words, what percentages do 4,378 and 37,261 represent). Since many/most accidents do not involve pedestrians (no accidents on freeways involve pedestrians, for example), the number of deaths are not based on the same denominator.

 

[AKL_Megs]

That doesn't actually prove the PP wrong. The PP said that a pedestrian IN AN ACCIDENT is more likely to die then a car passenger IN AN ACCIDENT.

The part I capitalized is important and not addressed by the statistics you provided. You'd need to know how many total passengers were involved in car accidents and how many total pedestrians were involved in car accidents (in other words, what percentages do 4,378 and 37,261 represent). Since many/most accidents do not involve pedestrians (no accidents on freeways involve pedestrians, for example), the number of deaths are not based on the same denominator.

Here you go...

10.6 million car accidents were reported in 2007.

Of those, 43,100 died within a year... 17,200 (passenger auto), 13,500 (passenger fixed object), and 5,900 (pedestrian).

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2010/tables/10s1067.pdf

And just to add, pedestrians DO get killed on freeways... My parents had a friend who was killed on a freeway walking to get gas.

 

[Lanshark]

I believe your Dh is capable of walking his 10 year old daughter across the street. I think he had more of a reason to be miffed than you do. I think it is nice she wanted to go with him and he wanted her to join him. That should make you feel good.

 

[WDWorBUST]

And if I was your DH I would be angry that you did not respect my feelings. You are telling me that I have no judgment and that I do not know how to take care of my daughter.

I so agree, I would be spitting mad!!! How dare you tell me what I can and can't do with my Daughter.

I can't even imagine telling my husband where he could walk. What makes you think you have that right?

If I was your husband she and I would be walking on that road every day!

I think you both must have interpreted things completely different than I did and intended.

My response was about mutual respect for one anothers feelings - not one person making the "rules". For example - I just had a baby just under 4 weeks ago. The last month or two of my pregnancy my husband did not want me mowing the lawn with the riding lawn mower. He didn't want me getting on a step ladder even. He was worried. Now I know I was fine to do both of those things but I RESPECTED his feelings on the subject because it just wasn't worth him worrying about me. So if I reacted like you said you would I should have been mowing the yard daily and hunting for excuses to climb the step ladder because he shouldn't tell me what to do.

You say you feel sorry for the OP's spouse (oh and I guess mine too) -I guess the feeling is mutual because from your posts in response I feel pretty sorry for your spouse that you are going to do whatever you want with no regard to his/her opinion or feelings.

 

[Hannathy]

I

You say you feel sorry for the OP's spouse (oh and I guess mine too) -I guess the feeling is mutual because from your posts in response I feel pretty sorry for your spouse that you are going to do whatever you want with no regard to his/her opinion or feelings.

No the difference is she didn't say he laughed at her for being concerned and didn't consider her feelings and that upset her she said she FORBID him from taking his daughter on a walk on a road and he disobeyed her and did it. HUGE difference!!!

It is his daughter also she has no right to FORBID him from doing something. She can tell him it makes her nervous and he can choose to consider her feelings but she has no right to treat him like a child and FORBID him from doing something legal with his daughter.

 

[Mermaid02]

I understand worrying- we all do it to some extent, but if you think about EVERY horrible thing that could EVER happen- None of us would ever leave our homes, or maybe we would since so many accidents happen in the home!

 

[NHdisneylover]

I am another poster who feels that the husband in this scenario is the one who has a right to be angry. I cannot fathom telling my husband he cannot take a walk with HIS child anywhere he deemed safe (and since OP herself says that many people walk dogs, etc on this road--it seems pretty clear that his judgement is not severely impaired or anything).

 

[okeydokey]

I would never dream of telling my DH he can't take our kids on a walk where he thinks it is safe. I trust his judgment. He is just as much their parent and I am. I think you owe him an apology for overreacting.

 

[luvsJack]

That is one of mine as my father was killed on a motorcycle when I was 12-years old. If my DH allowed my DD to ride on a motorcycle there would be hell to pay.

I am sorry that you lost your dad at such a young age.

My brother was killed 12 years ago when he was hit by a car while riding an ATV. I HATE ATVs and dd has never been allowed to just "go riding" with a bunch of kids BUT I don't say anyhting when her Dad takes her riding with his brothers. Do I worry? A bit. But, he has been riding these things and motorcycles and anything else with a motor all his life; he knows what he is doing and he doesn't go on the road (DB was crossing the road when he was hit). He is just as careful with her on the thing as he would want her to be if she was driving.

 

[bumbershoot]

If I trusted the man enough to marry him and have a child with him then I think I would trust him enough to make safe decisions when he is with said child.

So my husband's sister who had two children with an ex-con and active heroin user...she should trust him with everything then? (of course the funny thing is that they were far better off when they were living with him...after all, HE chose a relatively normal-at-the-time woman...SHE is the one with the judgment of a gnat who married HIM!)

But still. People don't always *have to* trust their partners in every single way...

If I was your husband she and I would be walking on that road every day!

Thereby showing the lack of judgment that the OP was worried about. That sort of knee-jerk, non-thinking reaction would prove that the person having that sort of reaction isn't safe at all.

Okay--I would...but I trust his judgement unless it is something extremely precarious...i.e. base line jumping, climbing mount everest...that sort of thing.

And if the other parent feels that walking, just flesh and bone out there, with tons of vehicles just whizzing by at a *minimum* of 50 mph on the shoulder of a road with only 2 lanes (making it impossible for a car to correct in a bad situation withOUT going onto the shoulder) is exactly the same sort of thing as BASE jumping, going to Everest, etc etc? Then what?

he is not mad at me, he did apologize to ME, LOL, he said he will not take her walking on that road next time since he knows how strongly I feel about it.

Yay for your hubby! He is a strong, solid man with manliness and ego firmly in place, to see that he had made a mistake in judgment. Love it!

I guess I don't see how it's no problem for the dh to go by himself, but him taking the dd on that road is a problem. If it's too dangerous for the dd to be on the road (supervised by an adult, that it!) then isn't it too dangerous for the adult to be on the road alone?

I bet that's how the OP feels, but in this situation it's obviously been decided that he can make the decision alone for his own body. Also doesn't sound like there's much choice in their area, as he trains for marathons.

This my pet peeve about message boards. If someone posts one thing they do/don't do, others immediately label them. "You don't let your kids do A or B or C?? Well, you MUST be a helicopter parent. Those 'poor' kids are never going to be able to move away from home and live productive lives."

Everyone has a thing or two that they are weird about. My mom forbid me to cook when I was growing up. She had serious kitchen fears. I couldn't use the stove and could barely use a knife without her freaking out. If you only knew that detail, you would assume she was a helicopter parent.

But, if you knew that I was in charge of cutting the grass, weed whacking and snow blowing all by the age of ten, you would see my mom was simply being weird about the kitchen thing. She didn't have any problem with me taking a bus to downtown Detroit starting at the age of nine but I couldn't boil water on the stove. My siblings and I still tease her about that to this day and all of us managed to move out by 19, lead productive lives and we all do fine in the kitchen!

If the OP is wracked with fear over everything her DD does, she has issues and needs help. If she has one or two odd things that worry her, she should try and work on those but even if she can't resolve her own worries, I am sure her DD will grow up just fine.

Loved your post!


In my own personal case, my mom started us jogging when the jogging craze was big. And we lived on a dead-end street, so to get out jogging before the neighborhoods were built up around us meant...2 lane, 45 mph (minimum) roads (with a bar right at the top of the street). She was OK with that, she was OK with a lot of things because she had to be (no husband, and when a stepdad came around he worked nights so was asleep when we were awake so it's a moot point), but there were some little hot button issues. Oh in one case...she felt that I was so much safer when out on a date, and I would have a LATER curfew when on a date, than when I was with my girlfriends. She made the boys come in the house, look her in the eye, she would make sure she got a good vibe from the boys...but with my friends, they'd honk and I'd run out, and I always tried to stay out later later later with them. So for my mom, dates were great (I had NO curfew for my Senior Ball for instance (alas, everyone else in our group, including my date, did!)) but football games with my buddies were difficult for her.

If the mother is ruminating over every possible "what could happen" scenario, the child might actually be better off listening to the father's more realistic views about danger.

50 mph, 2 lane, just a shoulder to walk on, road is a realistically safe place to walk?

However, neither one of us make rules as to how the other should parent. WE make rules for our son together, and enforce them together.

OK, which is exactly what it seems like the OP's family does. But her husband changed it up this day. Made a different decision. So what then? In your family, you have mutual rules, but one day your wife goes against it? What happens then? Do you feel you'd have the right to be righteously IRKED with her for changing it up?

Actually, you are wrong.

In 2008, 37,261 passengers were killed in car accidents in the United States.

In comparison...

In 2008, 4,378 pedestrians were killed by being struck by a car in the United States.

Coincidentally, the leading cause of death for kids between 2 and 14 is motor vehicle accidents.

Here you go...

10.6 million car accidents were reported in 2007.

Of those, 43,100 died within a year... 17,200 (passenger auto), 13,500 (passenger fixed object), and 5,900 (pedestrian).

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2010/tables/10s1067.pdf


And just to add, pedestrians DO get killed on freeways... My parents had a friend who was killed on a freeway walking to get gas.

Neither of those is useful.

First you need the total number of car-hits-pedestrian accidents. Not just a conglomeration of car accidents reported. Then you need the total of car-hits-car accidents.

Then you need to know how many of the hit pedestrians died. And how many of the car drivers/passengers died after a car hit their car.

THAT's how you would determine if a pedestrian being hit is in more danger than a car driver/passenger being hit.

The statistic being worried about isn't likelihood of car hitting car over car hitting pedestrian, but *what happens to the humans in those situations, after it's already happened*.

I believe your Dh is capable of walking his 10 year old daughter across the street.

They walked *along* that street, not *across* that street.

...she has no right to FORBID him from doing something.

How do you know? How do you get to set the terms for what another couple does?

Before we got married, I forbade my husband from coloring his hair platinum, and he forbade me from coloring my hair bubble gum pink or fiber-optic blue. We both stated that AFTER the wedding, anything goes (and if we ever get to Tokyo where we trust that we can easily find people who can get his black hair to platinum without turning it some funky red color, I'm SURE he will do it...I personally am starting to like my hair in its natural state and don't want the upkeep of pink or blue now), but before, it was absolutely forbidden on both of our parts! And you don't get to tell me or my husband that we were wrong to do it. It worked for us.




Lastly, my husband is GLAD that I look out for him! I think of rational things to watch out for, while he doesn't. Almost all of our son's bigger injuries have happened under HIS watch. I can think of one small fall (off a boxspring and mattress, no frame) that was under my watch. Under his...DS flew out of his arms to the floor when DS was an infant b/c DS has always had very strong legs and a strong will, and propelled himself out of DH's arms. DH let DS run through our parking garage carrying a long TinkerToy and of course DS fell, and it's hard for me to think about that one for more than a millisecond without wanting to throw up (the scar is on the roof of DS's mouth, let's just put it that way and close our minds to the "what ifs"). DH's choices caused a burn on DS's chest, and 3 months later caused DS to fall and get a head injury that took us to the ER.

The one where both of us were present, aware of what was going on, and where the other person was close enough to prevent it from happening, was at 6 months when DS knocked out a tooth. I was closest, I was going to pick him up, DH said "he'll be OK" and I chose to trust that he knew best...and whammo, there went the tooth.


DH is WELL aware that I generally have very very good ideas of safety, and I would seriously worry about his manliness if he EVER took any concern I said as lightly as you guys do! Just this weekend as he was driving us home from a trip, realizing that his new glasses were making a WORLD of difference in his alertness level (turns out his old glasses were causing eye fatigue which were causing actual fatigue, and he didn't nod off ONCE on this trip!), but we were tired from all the snow driving (not accostumed to it in W WA) and I was having a hard time managing my stress over driving....and I just said "these fears I'm having today are just pathetic". He said very seriously "Molly, your fears are NEVER pathetic". THAT is a man. Not the ones who would go take their kids off doing whatever their wives didn't want them to do, just because.

 

[sunnyday123]

So my husband's sister who had two children with an ex-con and active heroin user...she should trust him with everything then? (of course the funny thing is that they were far better off when they were living with him...after all, HE chose a relatively normal-at-the-time woman...SHE is the one with the judgment of a gnat who married HIM!)

But still. People don't always *have to* trust their partners in every single way...



Thereby showing the lack of judgment that the OP was worried about. That sort of knee-jerk, non-thinking reaction would prove that the person having that sort of reaction isn't safe at all.



And if the other parent feels that walking, just flesh and bone out there, with tons of vehicles just whizzing by at a *minimum* of 50 mph on the shoulder of a road with only 2 lanes (making it impossible for a car to correct in a bad situation withOUT going onto the shoulder) is exactly the same sort of thing as BASE jumping, going to Everest, etc etc? Then what?




Yay for your hubby! He is a strong, solid man with manliness and ego firmly in place, to see that he had made a mistake in judgment. Love it!




I bet that's how the OP feels, but in this situation it's obviously been decided that he can make the decision alone for his own body. Also doesn't sound like there's much choice in their area, as he trains for marathons.




Loved your post!


In my own personal case, my mom started us jogging when the jogging craze was big. And we lived on a dead-end street, so to get out jogging before the neighborhoods were built up around us meant...2 lane, 45 mph (minimum) roads (with a bar right at the top of the street). She was OK with that, she was OK with a lot of things because she had to be (no husband, and when a stepdad came around he worked nights so was asleep when we were awake so it's a moot point), but there were some little hot button issues. Oh in one case...she felt that I was so much safer when out on a date, and I would have a LATER curfew when on a date, than when I was with my girlfriends. She made the boys come in the house, look her in the eye, she would make sure she got a good vibe from the boys...but with my friends, they'd honk and I'd run out, and I always tried to stay out later later later with them. So for my mom, dates were great (I had NO curfew for my Senior Ball for instance (alas, everyone else in our group, including my date, did!)) but football games with my buddies were difficult for her.




50 mph, 2 lane, just a shoulder to walk on, road is a realistically safe place to walk?





OK, which is exactly what it seems like the OP's family does. But her husband changed it up this day. Made a different decision. So what then? In your family, you have mutual rules, but one day your wife goes against it? What happens then? Do you feel you'd have the right to be righteously IRKED with her for changing it up?









Neither of those is useful.

First you need the total number of car-hits-pedestrian accidents. Not just a conglomeration of car accidents reported. Then you need the total of car-hits-car accidents.

Then you need to know how many of the hit pedestrians died. And how many of the car drivers/passengers died after a car hit their car.

THAT's how you would determine if a pedestrian being hit is in more danger than a car driver/passenger being hit.

The statistic being worried about isn't likelihood of car hitting car over car hitting pedestrian, but *what happens to the humans in those situations, after it's already happened*.




They walked *along* that street, not *across* that street.




How do you know? How do you get to set the terms for what another couple does?

Before we got married, I forbade my husband from coloring his hair platinum, and he forbade me from coloring my hair bubble gum pink or fiber-optic blue. We both stated that AFTER the wedding, anything goes (and if we ever get to Tokyo where we trust that we can easily find people who can get his black hair to platinum without turning it some funky red color, I'm SURE he will do it...I personally am starting to like my hair in its natural state and don't want the upkeep of pink or blue now), but before, it was absolutely forbidden on both of our parts! And you don't get to tell me or my husband that we were wrong to do it. It worked for us.




Lastly, my husband is GLAD that I look out for him! I think of rational things to watch out for, while he doesn't. Almost all of our son's bigger injuries have happened under HIS watch. I can think of one small fall (off a boxspring and mattress, no frame) that was under my watch. Under his...DS flew out of his arms to the floor when DS was an infant b/c DS has always had very strong legs and a strong will, and propelled himself out of DH's arms. DH let DS run through our parking garage carrying a long TinkerToy and of course DS fell, and it's hard for me to think about that one for more than a millisecond without wanting to throw up (the scar is on the roof of DS's mouth, let's just put it that way and close our minds to the "what ifs"). DH's choices caused a burn on DS's chest, and 3 months later caused DS to fall and get a head injury that took us to the ER.

The one where both of us were present, aware of what was going on, and where the other person was close enough to prevent it from happening, was at 6 months when DS knocked out a tooth. I was closest, I was going to pick him up, DH said "he'll be OK" and I chose to trust that he knew best...and whammo, there went the tooth.


DH is WELL aware that I generally have very very good ideas of safety, and I would seriously worry about his manliness if he EVER took any concern I said as lightly as you guys do! Just this weekend as he was driving us home from a trip, realizing that his new glasses were making a WORLD of difference in his alertness level (turns out his old glasses were causing eye fatigue which were causing actual fatigue, and he didn't nod off ONCE on this trip!), but we were tired from all the snow driving (not accostumed to it in W WA) and I was having a hard time managing my stress over driving....and I just said "these fears I'm having today are just pathetic". He said very seriously "Molly, your fears are NEVER pathetic". THAT is a man. Not the ones who would go take their kids off doing whatever their wives didn't want them to do, just because.

So the FATHER has no say in anything-the MOTHER makes all the rules? And really, you have some audacity calling the OP's husband or anyone elses "not a man."

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Here you go...

10.6 million car accidents were reported in 2007.

Of those, 43,100 died within a year... 17,200 (passenger auto), 13,500 (passenger fixed object), and 5,900 (pedestrian).

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2010/tables/10s1067.pdf

And just to add, pedestrians DO get killed on freeways... My parents had a friend who was killed on a freeway walking to get gas.

Just from this link...

http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pedbike/issues/whodies.htm

about 6,000 die annually while another 110,000 are injured...so that is 116,000 pedestrians hit by a car and 5.45% of those die.

Per your number...60,000 people in automobile collisions/fixed object collisions out of 10.6 million accidents die... or 0.5%

So a pedestrian HIT by a car is 10x as likely to die as someone IN a car that is in an accident. Physics rules in a collision and an unprotected pedestrian is at higher risk of death. You can't look at just the number alone, but rather the percentage total of all incidents. Of course MORE people die in wrecks because MORE people are in wrecks. But I never said anything to the contrary.



And for what it is worth--Hubby said he thought OP's hubby didn't make a wise choice.

ETA: I pulled up the first thing I could find as far as numbers...I don't have time to go get official reports or anything. But there is a reason cars are built the way they are...to mitigate the injuries and potential death that could occur. Clearly it isn't full proof--there will always be some type of accident that is the perfect scenario to kill someone. But a pedestrian, unless wrapped in bubble wrap that can withstand the significant impact of a 2-ton vehicle....is much more vulnerable than the driver in said vehicle if the impact was with another vehicle instead.

 

[MrsJackSparrow4Life]

So my husband's sister who had two children with an ex-con and active heroin user..

I would never marry an ex-con, active heroin user in the first place, let alone have children with him.

I still stick with my original statement. If I trusted the man enough to marry him, then I would trust the man enough to keep our child(ren) safe. If I couldn't trust him enough to keep them safe then there is no way in hell I would ever marry him. If he changed after I married him and became an idiot, then I wouldn't be staying married to him for 23 years like the OP.

 

[Mermaid02]

I would never marry an ex-con, active heroin user in the first place, let alone have children with him.

I still stick with my original statement. If I trusted the man enough to marry him, then I would trust the man enough to keep our child(ren) safe. If I couldn't trust him enough to keep them safe then there is no way in hell I would ever marry him. If he changed after I married him and became an idiot, then I wouldn't be staying married to him for 23 years like the OP.

I agree throwing the whole "ex con heroin user" piece into things changes the ENTIRE argument. I wouldn't trust a druggie ex con with my DOG let alone my child. Hell, I wouldn't trust him with my LAUNDRY.

 

[msjprincess]

So my husband's sister who had two children with an ex-con and active heroin user...she should trust him with everything then?

I would say he should be trusted with the children just as much as she should be trusted with them since she's obviously an idiot with no common sense.

 

[MrsJackSparrow4Life]

I would say he should be trusted with the children just as much as she should be trusted with them since she's obviously an idiot with no common sense.

 

[Mermaid02]

I would say he should be trusted with the children just as much as she should be trusted with them since she's obviously an idiot with no common sense.

Somebody had to say it... bravo!

 

[hereyago]

Now, I have an exdh, but certain things I still worry about: He likes to take DD once a year to VA. beach for labor day weekend. Ok, how do I put this: he is just ignorant when it comes to water-rip currents, not swimming at dark,etc. (yes, i have told him about certain things, but still has a devil may care attitude) Not saying if i were with DD that I could "save' her from everything in the water, but I have a much better respect and understanding then he does.

So he takes her and I just am nervous the whole time they could be in the water, but: even though he sucked as a husband, he is a good dad. and I wouldn't think of forbidding him to take her.

Just like snowtubing? I hate mountains , we wrecked on one and if it weren't for the barrier wall, we would be gone. so he has on occassion taken her to a ski resort, in the mountains and they have gone tubing. So once again, I am nervous, thinking about if they hit a tree or wreck on the way to or from the resort, but I trust him that he will take care of her or it would be on like donkey kong.

She is now 12 and he is FINALLY stopped babying her as much. When she was 9, he came to see her, she wanted to show him she could ride her bike to the school playground, which is within walking distance. Well, he decided he would take his car, but instead of just going straight there, he crept behind like he was a perv. Well, everyone knows DD but saw this car slowly following her: one of the people on that street is a cop and he followed them and asked exdh why he was following her.

I am quite sure there have been times where he may have not liked or been concerned about things she and I have done, however, he trusts me and knows I would never put her in harm's way on purpose.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I get what you're saying and I agree that "in general" men are bigger risk takers. I still think it's offensive & silly to suggest that men aren't as careful w/ their children as mothers are. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

My father was a retired NYC detective, he was extremely safety conscious. Not paranoid, but taught me how to keep myself safe...wear your seatbelt, lock your doors, be aware of your surroundings...etc. My mother was far more lax. Certainly my upbringing has influenced how I see this particular subject.

I don't think any father worth their weight in fatherhood would deliberately endanger their child. My husband without a police background is similar in making sure we are safe. Safety is another thing that men tend to be more mindful of.

But he uses the phrase "oh they'll be fine" quite a bit and then an oopsy that I could have predicted happens. Doesn't make him bad dad...

But being with the kids all day, I'm a little more in tune with their mischievous tendencies or their lack of skills in certain areas. Dad sometimes goes on autopilot and forgets.

We have an oversized three year old who looks like a 4-5 yo and we have to constantly remind ourselves that he is still a young pre-schooler who doesn't know the ropes yet. Not quite sure how to explain that one. But an unrelated example--I get the evil eye in Target if we have a bad moment and he melts down. Folks think I have a misbehaved pre-K or Kindergarden child...and I don't. I have a 3yo who is finally having his terrible 2s. Anyway--

So we really don't disagree per se. I had mentioned this discussion to my husband and he agreed that it is offensive to dads, but then I explained myself and he did get it better. Then he thought that it wasn't smart to go on a 50mph road. But disclaimer...I walked on a 50mph country road a mile to my friends house all of the time as a kid. BY MYSELF! Blind turns, barely a shoulder...and my parents were fine with this. How I didn't end up on the receiving end of a pickup truck's bumper, I have no idea. I was about 9-10yo as I lived at this location in 3rd and 4th grade. It wasn't a busy road, but it really wasn't a smart choice with or without supervision.

None of us can see this woman's road and while there are roads I would go on myself for runs and folks walk dogs, it isn't an activity I envision safe for children. Their reflexes just aren't quick enough to judge properly a car wobbling too snug near the shoulder.

But I'm just going by what she says--I'd have to see it to know.

I've taken my kids along A1A at my old house...but we had a sidewalk for that purpose.