Solar Panels

[sukhakuli]

We're seriously considering putting solar on the house this summer. We have a good roofline, lots of sun (California), and high energy bills. We have a really big house, and 4 kids, so we pay about 4-500/mo in power. That's without needing to pay for heating or cooling, but we do have a pool (solar heated). We have replaced all of the old appliances with energy efficient ones, put timers on the lights the kids were leaving on, and so on. It hasn't made any difference. Electric went up 30% last year.

I've been talking to a few companies, and there are so many options. I feel pretty confident that we don't want to lease. One company has some prepay plan, you pay per kwh for 5 years and then have the option to buy the system out, or upgrade and renew the contract. Does anyone have any experience with that? They maintain and repair the system. Is that preferable to paying for the system outright?

We want to do this for 2 reasons, one for financial reasons, and secondly, because we feel it is better for the planet. So it's not a strictly financial decision. Still want to make a smart financial choice, though.

 

[supersnoop]

Most solar systems come with a 20-25 year warranty, so I wouldn't be too quick to get into any sort of support or maintenance contract.

You need to review your electric bills and look at the usage, not the charge. You need to check with your power company to see how they handle grid-tied solar systems. Most will offer "net-metering," which means your meter will run backwards when you're producing more energy than you're using. Some providers will buy back any excess power at retail rates, others will pay wholesale rates, and some won't pay anything at all. When sizing your system, you want to consider your baseline usage throughout the year, not your peak usage in the summer.

As for equipment, look into micro-inverters. I'm told they are more efficient and easier to maintain.

 

[amcnj]

Several neighbors have recently installed panels. The way it seems to be working here on the opposite coast is you don't pay anything for the system. You just pay for the electricity you use, and it is a rate lower than you would paying your local electric utility. I beleive they said about half the cost per kwh. The contract runs for 20 years and they claim the installer will also repair anything that needs fixing. But I guess you have to hope the installer is till around for that long? Anyway, they also said if you produce extra energy, the local ultility kind of banks it for you for times you run over in usage. If you need extra power above any banked amount, you get it from your local utiltiy at the normal prevailing rate. And I believe they said if you have extra at the end of a year the utility buys you out for those kwh. But I am hearing all this from the homeowners who had it installed and have not actually spoken to the installation company or read any contracts. But that is how they explained it to me.

 

[sukhakuli]

We decided to do the 5 year system. So, they pay for installation (we need a 12.5k system, so it would have been 60k out of pocket), and they lock in a rate for electricity. We currently pay 30 cents per kwh, and they will charge us 20 cents per kwh, locked in for 20 years. Our electric is going up another 25% this fall, and they may charge customers for the fees they are incurring for a nuclear plant that went down. So, from that angle, it makes sense. Then we can buy the system at the current value in 5 years.

Also, I didn't know this, but although the panels will last for many years, all the other parts have to be replaced every 10 years. They replace everything and do all the maintenance.

So, it makes sense to do it, but I'm still feeling unsure. The guy is coming tomorrow to go over the contract.

 

[pryncess527]

We decided to do the 5 year system. So, they pay for installation (we need a 12.5k system, so it would have been 60k out of pocket), and they lock in a rate for electricity. We currently pay 30 cents per kwh, and they will charge us 20 cents per kwh, locked in for 20 years. Our electric is going up another 25% this fall, and they may charge customers for the fees they are incurring for a nuclear plant that went down. So, from that angle, it makes sense. Then we can buy the system at the current value in 5 years.

Also, I didn't know this, but although the panels will last for many years, all the other parts have to be replaced every 10 years. They replace everything and do all the maintenance.

So, it makes sense to do it, but I'm still feeling unsure. The guy is coming tomorrow to go over the contract.

I like the sound of that, we may have to look into that -- who are you working with?

 

[amcnj]

One thing I did wonder about, besides what happens if you have to replace the roof, is how do you know the company will still be in business 20 years from now, and what happens if they are not?

 

[sukhakuli]

We went with Solar City. It's owned by the same guy who owns Tesla, and previously owned Paypal. I don't think they will go under.

We will pretty much never have to replace the roof since we have Spanish tile. It lasts forever. But, I know from a previous roof, that if there is damage the insurance company pays for, they include the cost to remove and replace the panels in the insurance coverage.

 

[PatsGirl]

I just met with a salesperson from Solar City last night. They are offering a no-cost, 20 year PPA contract if your credit score is 680+. He pulled my house up on the computer to get an idea of possible production. There's a very large tree that we had intended to remove in the spring that will most likely stall us in this process until it is removed.

I am still confused even though he spent two hours explaining everything to me. It didn't help that I was his first sales customer (solo for him)...he's a young neighbor that just got into the business and is/was using me for feedback to strengthen his sales approach.

Here's what I gathered for information and would love others to chime in with their experiences, thoughts, and personally information:

*PPA is a power purchase agreement that has a max 2.5% annual increase. If the increase is that much every year over 20 years, cost will equal exactly what I pay through NStar today per kwh.

*There is no cost upfront and therefore no rebates to homeowner. All rebates are payable to SolarCity and their financiers.

*If I request American made panels and equipment they will make it work. At this time, they use both Canadian and Japanese equipment. I'll need to research more to find out about quality.

*An estimate is that I will save approximately 35% per month off my bill which is $100/month right now.

Thanks for reading and helping me sort this out.

*True up-cost at the end of the year. Can someone explain this to me?

*

 

[PatsGirl]

I just met with a salesperson from Solar City last night. They are offering a no-cost, 20 year PPA contract if your credit score is 680+. He pulled my house up on the computer to get an idea of possible production. There's a very large tree that we had intended to remove in the spring that will most likely stall us in this process until it is removed.

I am still confused even though he spent two hours explaining everything to me. It didn't help that I was his first sales customer (solo for him)...he's a young neighbor that just got into the business and is/was using me for feedback to strengthen his sales approach.

Here's what I gathered for information and would love others to chime in with their experiences, thoughts, and personally information:

*PPA is a power purchase agreement that has a max 2.5% annual increase. If the increase is that much every year over 20 years, cost will equal exactly what I pay through NStar today per kwh.

*There is no cost upfront and therefore no rebates to homeowner. All rebates are payable to SolarCity and their financiers.

*If I request American made panels and equipment they will make it work. At this time, they use both Canadian and Japanese equipment. I'll need to research more to find out about quality.

*An estimate is that I will save approximately 35% per month off my bill which is $100/month right now.

*True up-cost at the end of the year. Can someone explain this to me?

 

[disney1990]

We are buying our system outright. We are eligible for a $1,000 Maryland Grant, a $5,000 break on the taxes on our home, and a $7,200 Federal tax credit. We have a 25 year warranty on our "American made" system. Our system was $24K. Any electricity that we produce and do not use, we sell back to our power company at the same rate that they would charge us. (Under an agreement with Solar City, this profit will go to them.) It will take us 5-7 years to break even. We decided would would rather not have to make a payment to a company for the next 20 years.

 

[Ladygoldenhair]

While I was working I visited two families that had solar panels. They did not have it on the roof, they had acreage with a large foot print of panels. It was a get rich selling power to the company and not having their own bill. They are into the cost several hundred thousand after some grant money. They make enough to pay their bill, but there is only so many hours of day light, the weather affects with clouds, and after five years they have yet to sell back anything.

I don't know why because that large of a solar farm they should be. The father of the clan says it's the lack of daylight and high investment payments.

I would check into geothermal. This has been a consistent means of heating/cooler source.

 

[disney1990]

While I was working I visited two families that had solar panels. They did not have it on the roof, they had acreage with a large foot print of panels. It was a get rich selling power to the company and not having their own bill. They are into the cost several hundred thousand after some grant money. They make enough to pay their bill, but there is only so many hours of day light, the weather affects with clouds, and after five years they have yet to sell back anything.

I don't know why because that large of a solar farm they should be. The father of the clan says it's the lack of daylight and high investment payments.

I would check into geothermal. This has been a consistent means of heating/cooler source.

So he creating enough energy to pay his own electric bills totally or does he still have an electric bill to pay also?

Before you lease a solar system, read this:

http://solarleasedisadvantages.com/

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

So he creating enough energy to pay his own electric bills totally or does he still have an electric bill to pay also?

Before you lease a solar system, read this:

http://solarleasedisadvantages.com/

I love this link! It's so true. We just had a salesman stop by in the last month. Our roof is only 1 yr old and it was a LOT of money so we're a bit protective of it. (It's a rancher so every room has its own roof.) Our expected savings worked out to approximately $60 per month savings over our typical bill with PSE&G. Nothing OOP at the onset but we would have to lock in for 20 years and if we ever decided to sell it stays with the house. At the first visit, they scheduled a sunlight test on various areas of our roof to see if we even get enough sun. (It's a very wooded neighborhood.) What really wound me up was he wanted us to sign the contract in order to do the sunlight test run. That's where I lost it. He tried to say it's just a formality, that they need our permission to go up on our roof. I told him I'll sign a permission slip to test & inspect our roof but no way am I signing the contract for solar panels. I wondered how many people they trapped with that.
Anyway, since the front of our house gets the afternoon sun and it's such a minimal savings each month, we didn't feel it was worth it to cover the front of our house in solar panels and be locked into a 20 year contract.

I recently switched back to our default gas/electric provider after another one who promised us great savings gradually got more expensive than what we were paying before. It was nice to not be locked into a contract and we could switch back when we wanted to. 20 years is a loooong time.