Social Security Card

[DopeyDame]

Sure. I'm not even that sure if an international adoption requires the I-551 status at all. Legally if one is a minor child of a US citizen and physically present in the United States, they're automatically entitled to US citizenship. Doesn't matter if they're adopted by US citizens or the parents become naturalized.

And green cards are more or less green again.

This is one of the few topics in life where I am definitely an expert... through lots of annoying personal experience.
Kids can enter the US either having already been officially adopted in their birth country or on a visa where their parents are technically guardians "with intent to adopt" Which one is which is totally dependent on the birth country and the international treaties between them and the US and their status as a member of the UN Hague Convention.
If a child is officially adopted in the birth country, and that country is one where the US recognizes the adoption, then you're right - they enter the country as a child of US citizen parents and once they land on terra ferma, they are citizens. Assuming the people at immigration at the landing airport do their job correctly, the kid will automatically get a citizen SSN card (which is a 50/50 assumption, from what I hear), are eligible for a passport right away, etc.

However... if a kid is coming from a country where the adoption isn't finalized, or if only one parent travels to the birth country, then the kid lands as a permanent resident, because the parents are - legally - guardians and not parents at the time. Once the adoption is finalized in the US (typically after 6 months - a year) then the child becomes a citizen. In those cases, the SSA is a HUGE pain in the butt. They won't accept the adoption decree as proof of citizenship (even though they do accept US birth certificates as proof) In those cases you need to get some other paperwork - typically a certificate of citizenship at the cost of nearly $1000 and months or even over a year's waiting time - and go back to the SSA and prove you are a citizen and get it changed. Have I mentioned it's a huge pain in the butt? ;-)

Phew. Thanks for reading if you've gotten this far. It was sort of cathartic to write that all out.

 

[lanejudy]

Any experts? Can you even decline Medicare? And will your husbands employer allow you to decline medicare?

To the untrained eye, it doesn't appear you can decline. https://www.medicare.gov/sign-up-ch...e/i-have-employer-coverage.html#collapse-5569

Yes, you can decline Medicare -- or "delay" may be a more appropriate term. Medicare Part A is the hospital coverage and has no cost to the individual, so there is no particular reason to decline it. Medicare Part B is the coverage for doctor's appointments, lab work/tests, etc. and the individual pay a premium for this coverage. Part B can be delayed depending on circumstances. The main reason for delaying Part B is coverage through your/spouse employer if the employer has at least 20 employees and offers IRS-defined group health plan coverage. Delaying Part B without a qualifying reason can result in penalty-premiums when you do finally apply for Part B.


As to the question about SS cards -- mine is in the safe deposit box and hasn't been removed in years; we keep all of them there. I never provide it unless there is a tax-related reason. I don't recall receiving a new card when I married and changed my name, but next time I'm at the bank I'll check to see if it's there and I simply forgot.

 

[tvguy]

Yes, you can decline Medicare -- or "delay" may be a more appropriate term. Medicare Part A is the hospital coverage and has no cost to the individual, so there is no particular reason to decline it. Medicare Part B is the coverage for doctor's appointments, lab work/tests, etc. and the individual pay a premium for this coverage. Part B can be delayed depending on circumstances. The main reason for delaying Part B is coverage through your/spouse employer if the employer has at least 20 employees and offers IRS-defined group health plan coverage. Delaying Part B without a qualifying reason can result in penalty-premiums when you do finally apply for Part B.


As to the question about SS cards -- mine is in the safe deposit box and hasn't been removed in years; we keep all of them there. I never provide it unless there is a tax-related reason. I don't recall receiving a new card when I married and changed my name, but next time I'm at the bank I'll check to see if it's there and I simply forgot.

Thanks. Like I think I said, I have never shown my SS card to anyone. It went straight from my parents Safe Deposit box to my Safe Deposit box. The number I HAVE had to provide. Everything must be working because i get my estimated benefits statement every year about a month before my birthday. Although some here seemed surprised that I still get that annual statement.

 

[smiths02]

Yes, you can decline Medicare -- or "delay" may be a more appropriate term. Medicare Part A is the hospital coverage and has no cost to the individual, so there is no particular reason to decline it. Medicare Part B is the coverage for doctor's appointments, lab work/tests, etc. and the individual pay a premium for this coverage. Part B can be delayed depending on circumstances. The main reason for delaying Part B is coverage through your/spouse employer if the employer has at least 20 employees and offers IRS-defined group health plan coverage. Delaying Part B without a qualifying reason can result in penalty-premiums when you do finally apply for Part B.


As to the question about SS cards -- mine is in the safe deposit box and hasn't been removed in years; we keep all of them there. I never provide it unless there is a tax-related reason. I don't recall receiving a new card when I married and changed my name, but next time I'm at the bank I'll check to see if it's there and I simply forgot.

FWIW, I didn't just receive a new card when I got married. I had to go in person to the social security office and request the change.

 

[lanejudy]

Thanks. Like I think I said, I have never shown my SS card to anyone. It went straight from my parents Safe Deposit box to my Safe Deposit box. The number I HAVE had to provide. Everything must be working because i get my estimated benefits statement every year about a month before my birthday. Although some here seemed surprised that I still get that annual statement.

The card hasn't been shown in decades -- maybe once upon a time for an I-9 before I had a passport. I don't provide the number unless there is a clear and obvious tax-related reason; or if the requestor can explain how it relates to tax needs. The front desk staff at DD's pediatrician used to ask me periodically for her SSN, but they had no reason to need it other than "to complete her records." Uh, sorry, not needed.

FWIW, I didn't just receive a new card when I got married. I had to go in person to the social security office and request the change.

Yep, I remember going in-person to make the change. With the marriage license. The only time I was ever in the SS office. I don't recall getting new card, but since I never use it anyway maybe I've forgotten and it's in the safe deposit box with the original.

 

[gotomu212]

They're not supposed to. However, getting an SSN and a card is done separately from getting all the other authorization. It wouldn't surprise me if someone on a temporary status got one anyways.

Here's a au pair service that says the SSN card should be specially marked.

https://kdimas.aupairnews.com/2013/10/01/faq-how-does-an-au-pair-apply-for-a-social-security-number/
The SSA will then verify your documents with the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) before it can assign a SSN to you. After receiving the verification from DHS, a SSN will be issued to you and the Social Security card (containing the assigned SSN that is “Valid for Work Only With DHS Authorization”) will be mailed to the address you provided on the application (Form SS-5). Most of the time, documents can be verified quickly with DHS, online. If the documents cannot be verified online, it may take DHS several weeks to respond to the request.​

Having sponsored 8 au pairs over the last 10 years I’m way more comfortable with our experience with 2 different SSA offices than with an au pair service website. None of their cards have been marked as not valid for work or valid only with DHS authorization. HOWEVER all these designations do is mark whether someone can WORK not whether they are legally in the country (which is the point of this back and forth exchange if you look at the this string). Having a special designation still would not prove you could/could not be in the country and the SS card would not be useful as a law enforcement document.

 

[bcla]

Having sponsored 8 au pairs over the last 10 years I’m way more comfortable with our experience with 2 different SSA offices than with an au pair service website. None of their cards have been marked as not valid for work or valid only with DHS authorization. HOWEVER all these designations do is mark whether someone can WORK not whether they are legally in the country (which is the point of this back and forth exchange if you look at the this string). Having a special designation still would not prove you could/could not be in the country and the SS card would not be useful as a law enforcement document.

I was under the impression that this is done to ensure that the card can't be used if the work authorization expires. A work authorization doc should be valid for maybe a couple of years.

I wouldn't be surprised about what you've experienced, but those in the US on temporary work status aren't supposed to get a standard SSN card.

 

[bcla]

However... if a kid is coming from a country where the adoption isn't finalized, or if only one parent travels to the birth country, then the kid lands as a permanent resident, because the parents are - legally - guardians and not parents at the time. Once the adoption is finalized in the US (typically after 6 months - a year) then the child becomes a citizen. In those cases, the SSA is a HUGE pain in the butt. They won't accept the adoption decree as proof of citizenship (even though they do accept US birth certificates as proof) In those cases you need to get some other paperwork - typically a certificate of citizenship at the cost of nearly $1000 and months or even over a year's waiting time - and go back to the SSA and prove you are a citizen and get it changed. Have I mentioned it's a huge pain in the butt? ;-)

Isn't a green card supposed to be one of the documents that can be used to obtain a SSN?

I mentioned someone I know who was a permanent resident in HS and got his SSN card using the green card. He also got his first driver permit using the green card. He didn't get naturalized until he was an adult, and the Certificate of Naturalization was the document he received after the naturalization ceremony. That was as opposed to someone else I knew originally from Hong Kong whose father was naturalized. I don't believe he had to take an oath of naturalization, and his family applied and got a Certificate of Citizenship.

 

[tvguy]

The front desk staff at DD's pediatrician used to ask me periodically for her SSN, but they had no reason to need it other than "to complete her records." Uh, sorry, not needed.
.

My kids are 27 and 31 and since until the late 1990's my social security number was their Health Insurance ID number, I had no choice but to give that number to their Doctor.

 

[DopeyDame]

Isn't a green card supposed to be one of the documents that can be used to obtain a SSN?

I mentioned someone I know who was a permanent resident in HS and got his SSN card using the green card. He also got his first driver permit using the green card. He didn't get naturalized until he was an adult, and the Certificate of Naturalization was the document he received after the naturalization ceremony. That was as opposed to someone else I knew originally from Hong Kong whose father was naturalized. I don't believe he had to take an oath of naturalization, and his family applied and got a Certificate of Citizenship.

Right, the green card gets you an SSN, but in the system you are marked as a non-citizen. (Just like a PP mentioned his au pairs getting SSNs even though they aren't citizens)
Once the adoption is finalized, you can get a certificate of citizenship and take it to the SSN and have them change your status in the system. You don't get a new card at that point (which was my initial point - an SSN card will look the same regardless of your citizenship status)

ETA: It's super-ridiculous that SSA won't accept the adoption decree and a parent's passport as proof of citizenship, because you're right that that's all that's needed to legally be a citizen. But they won't. https://www.ssa.gov/people/immigrants/children.html

 

[goofyernmost]

They definitely do not issue two anymore. I have three children 12, 5, and 5. They all received one card each.

I also only got one when I changed my name (married) about 15 years ago.

Actually, it's a good thing I didn't need it because I found it last night and it turns out the it really is just a card that has just the SS# on it and is attached to the "official" card holder with my original. It might have worked as a temporary one if I lost the first one. I don't know, never used it. On the plus side it looks brand new. I got my card 54 years ago at age 16. I laminated it immediately. I tested it again today because I went to get my "Real ID" which required a SS card. They never even flinched on my plastic covered version, but you can trust me that it really looks 54 years old, laminate or not.

 

[goofyernmost]

Well the drivers license by itself immediately connects the person “to the government”. The SS card adds nothing to that process.

The drivers license connects to the State Government... The SS card connects with the Federal Government. I went to get my "Real ID" today from the DMV and absolutely had to show my drivers license as well as show them my SS card (which they scanned). There must be some reason for it. That along with my passport (or birth certificate) and proof of address.

 

[bcla]

Right, the green card gets you an SSN, but in the system you are marked as a non-citizen. (Just like a PP mentioned his au pairs getting SSNs even though they aren't citizens)
Once the adoption is finalized, you can get a certificate of citizenship and take it to the SSN and have them change your status in the system. You don't get a new card at that point (which was my initial point - an SSN card will look the same regardless of your citizenship status)

ETA: It's super-ridiculous that SSA won't accept the adoption decree and a parent's passport as proof of citizenship, because you're right that that's all that's needed to legally be a citizen. But they won't. https://www.ssa.gov/people/immigrants/children.html

There are a lot of things that can be done. I get that there's a pretty high application fee for the N-600 to get a Certificate of Citizenship. The person I know got naturalized in the 80s via his parents had to pay whatever that price was then for that piece of paper. However, I remember hearing (from someone going through the process) that an adult naturalizing maybe in the 90s didn't have to pay any fee, and the Certificate of Naturalization just came with it for free. I don't think it's free any more.

There are some things that can be done to avoid paying for a Certificate of Citizenship. The State Department will accept the typical evidence needed to obtain a Consular Report of Birth Abroad or a Certificate of Citizenship for a passport "in lieu". And of course the passport is considered proof of citizenship (and is a valid document to obtain an SSN). However, it's easier to have a Certificate of Citizenship since it never expires.