So, who's responsible?

[BuckNaked]

I don't recall a disaster that required the complete evacuation of well over 1 million people, and that's just the New Orleans area.

I agree that NOLA is unique, and I could see possibly involving the feds in helping to evacuate that citizen. But without an adequate plan in place, all the help in the world won't make a difference.

 

[wvrevy]

It seems that other cities have been able to do it without federal interference.

Really ? Please point to the major metropolitan American city that has been completely evacuated without federal government assistance.

 

[peachgirl]

I agree that NOLA is unique, and I could see possibly involving the feds in helping to evacuate that citizen. But without an adequate plan in place, all the help in the world won't make a difference.

Whether it makes a difference or not, they are required to give assistance and they didn't.

I see this morning that Bush wants to head the probe in finding out what went wrong...a little like the fox guarding the hen house if you ask me. I think I'll rely on the congressional investigation which might be just a little more of a real investigation rather than a quick track to blame everyone but the Federal Government.

 

[JimMIA]

At the risk of joining a thread with a lot of silliness and personal bickering, I can tell you the legal answer.

The storm preparations and immediate aftermath are the legal responsibility of local and state officials. There is, however, a tremendous amount of coordination with federal agencies like the National Hurricane Center and FEMA...and it works a lot better than people with political agendas from either side would like to admit.

In Florida, which is what we are talking about in this particular thread (except for those of you who just don't like each other ), the Governor has the authority to order mandatory evacuations. (That is not true in all states.) If that happens, local police agencies have the authority -- and in fact DO -- go into areas and remove people who decline their invitation to leave. The timing and logistics of all evacuations -- voluntary or mandatory -- are the responsibilities of local officials, although obviously they consult heavily with NHC.

In the aftermath of a storm, the entire process is the legal responsibility of the local and state authorities UNLESS they decide they can't handle it and ask for federal help. The federal response is a menu kind of thing, so you can select one type of aid and decline others.

Constitutionally, the federal government CANNOT step in and take over. In addition, there is a federal law prohibiting the U.S. military from performing law enforcement functions within the boundaries of the U.S., which is why you heard so much emphasis the other day about all those National Guard troops remaining under the control of the governors.

Some level of federal help is requested in virtually every storm situation, and that assistance is coordinated by FEMA. Contrary to popular belief, FEMA does not take over any local or state functions...nor do they take over the responsibilities or command of any federal agencies. They are a coordinating agency, and it's a very collaborative situation with everybody working together.

In a major storm recovery, all levels of government participate and each has their own specific responsibilities. For example, in Hurricane Andrew, we had some projects funded and controlled by FEMA, some funded federally and by state funds and controlled by state government, some by county government, some by city governments, and even a large component by a big non-profit set up by the business community.

I know that is not what everyone wants to hear, but that's how it works.

You can go back to fighting now...enjoy.

 

[poohandwendy]

We aren't talking about the evacuation of a few hundred people here, Brenda. It's completely unrealistic to expect a single local or state government to be able to manage something on the massive scale of the evacuation of a major city. They have neither the resources nor the manpower to do so.

I don't think it is unrealistic at all. Who better to manage an evacuation than those who are governing the city and live there? They know the area, they know the resources, they know the people.

What I think the federal govt should do NOW, is to create a federal evacuation plan that is a guideline for city officials to customize to their needs and what would be practical for their area. They need to outline the issues we have learned from other cities who have dealt with massive evacuation and propose ideas of how city govts can put those ideas into action if/when needed. Then the local and state govts can work out the details for their own areas.

And then the local and state govts need to pass along the info to the citizens. IMO, this just needs to become a fact of life for people. Everyone needs to have a plan BEFORE things come crashing down.

Just my thoughts.

 

[BuckNaked]

Really ? Please point to the major metropolitan American city that has been completely evacuated without federal government assistance.

As far as I know, no major metropolitan area has ever been completely evacuated. But other major cities have always been able to get out the people that needed to be out.

Whether it makes a difference or not, they are required to give assistance and they didn't.

Where did the city or state ever request evacuation assistance? And where do you get the idea that the federal government is required to offer that assistance?

 

[peachgirl]

In the aftermath of a storm, the entire process is the legal responsibility of the local and state authorities UNLESS they decide they can't handle it and ask for federal help. The federal response is a menu kind of thing, so you can select one type of aid and decline others.

That's not what a little thing called the National Response Plan says.

 

[ThAnswr]

I don't think it is unrealistic at all. Who better to manage an evacuation than those who are governing the city and live there? They know the area, they know the resources, they know the people.

What I think the federal govt should do NOW, is to create a federal evacuation plan that is a guideline for city officials to customize to their needs and what would be practical for their area. They need to outline the issues we have learned from other cities who have dealt with massive evacuation and propose ideas of how city govts can put those ideas into action if/when needed. Then the local and state govts can work out the details for their own areas.

And then the local and state govts need to pass along the info to the citizens. IMO, this just needs to become a fact of life for people. Everyone needs to have a plan BEFORE things come crashing down.

Just my thoughts.

Would I be out of line if I said your answer sounds like you're saying it should be the responsibility of all three?

Just asking.

 

[poohandwendy]

Would I be out of line if I said your answer sounds like you're saying it should be the responsibility of all three?

Not at all. They need to work together in the planning stages. Then, when/if a big disaster happens, the chain of command starts with local and then works it's way up to federal if/when the local and state cannot handle it. My point is that we need to come up with planning so that the local and state govts will be able to at least handle immediately before and after a major disaster without total chaos.

 

[ThAnswr]

What if the cities and states don't do what they can?

Well, then I say "screw 'em"! Let the dead and injured pile up and serve as a warning to those too lazy or too stupid or too old to take responsibility for themselves. Yeah, that'll teach the next disaster victim!

Sorry, couldn't help myself. In fact, I'm so upset with myself, I'm going to give myself a stern lecture and then march myself off to my room for a timeout.

But, before I do that, I have a question: What answer are you looking for?

 

[poohandwendy]

"What answer are you looking for?"

For petes sake, can we please have a discusson without a childish 'us against them' tone for once?

 

[ThAnswr]

"What answer are you looking for?"

For petes sake, can we please have a discusson without a childish 'us against them' tone for once?

That would be nice, but I don't believe the purpose of this thread was to share information.

 

[gina2000]

At the risk of my online life, I'll bite.


No matter what our constitution says, no matter what our framework has been up until this point, we haven't ever had to deal with the massive destruction and chaos that occurred due to Katrina. IF a WTC tower had fallen over rather than collapsed, we may have had the same sort of chaotic response and timing that we did during Katrina's aftermath. I can't think of another scenario where a massive part of a city would be inaccessible for a long enough period of time that emergency people could not get in to aid those in need. Obviously, we need to face this problem head on for the future.

In my opinion, we need to work on a federal, state and local level to prevent anything of this magnitude from ever causing such suffering and strife.

The Federal Government should mandate an Emergency Response division which will work with state and local governments on a regular basis to determine what courses of action can be taken in the event that a natural disaster should strike. This should include evacuation procedures for the poor, the sick and the elderly. This division should work with the state and local officials if a disaster is in the making as well as help in the aftermath with coordination of emergency personnel on a federal, state and local basis. If a disaster does occur, the state should know that they can rely on this division to help expedite emergency food, water and personnel.

As an aside....hi, Bet. I know you won't agree with most of this, but I think the needs of the few outweigh the needs of many in this sort of scenario.

 

[Pugdog007]

1. The individual
2. Their state and local governments

 

[ThAnswr]

At the risk of my online life, I'll bite.


No matter what our constitution says, no matter what our framework has been up until this point, we haven't ever had to deal with the massive destruction and chaos that occurred due to Katrina. IF a WTC tower had fallen over rather than collapsed, we may have had the same sort of chaotic response and timing that we did during Katrina's aftermath. I can't think of another scenario where a massive part of a city would be inaccessible for a long enough period of time that emergency people could not get in to aid those in need. Obviously, we need to face this problem head on for the future.

In my opinion, we need to work on a federal, state and local level to prevent anything of this magnitude from ever causing such suffering and strife.

The Federal Government should mandate an Emergency Response division which will work with state and local governments on a regular basis to determine what courses of action can be taken in the event that a natural disaster should strike. This should include evacuation procedures for the poor, the sick and the elderly. This division should work with the state and local officials if a disaster is in the making as well as help in the aftermath with coordination of emergency personnel on a federal, state and local basis. If a disaster does occur, the state should know that they can rely on this division to help expedite emergency food, water and personnel.

As an aside....hi, Bet. I know you won't agree with most of this, but I think the needs of the few outweigh the needs of many in this sort of scenario.

Well said.

 

[bsnyder]

That would be nice, but I don't believe the purpose of this thread was to share information.

Actually, it was to start a discussion - I don't know the answer I'm looking for. I do know that my community, and many others, are certainly at risk of having a catastrophe like Katrina. If we should do things differently than the way they are presently designed, I'd be all for that.

 

[poohandwendy]

At the risk of my online life, I'll bite.


No matter what our constitution says, no matter what our framework has been up until this point, we haven't ever had to deal with the massive destruction and chaos that occurred due to Katrina. IF a WTC tower had fallen over rather than collapsed, we may have had the same sort of chaotic response and timing that we did during Katrina's aftermath. I can't think of another scenario where a massive part of a city would be inaccessible for a long enough period of time that emergency people could not get in to aid those in need. Obviously, we need to face this problem head on for the future.

In my opinion, we need to work on a federal, state and local level to prevent anything of this magnitude from ever causing such suffering and strife.

The Federal Government should mandate an Emergency Response division which will work with state and local governments on a regular basis to determine what courses of action can be taken in the event that a natural disaster should strike. This should include evacuation procedures for the poor, the sick and the elderly. This division should work with the state and local officials if a disaster is in the making as well as help in the aftermath with coordination of emergency personnel on a federal, state and local basis. If a disaster does occur, the state should know that they can rely on this division to help expedite emergency food, water and personnel.

As an aside....hi, Bet. I know you won't agree with most of this, but I think the needs of the few outweigh the needs of many in this sort of scenario.

I don't see anything wrog with that idea, but I still think that the local and state level would need to be the ones making the determination of whether or not the emergency response division was needed, immediately following a disaster. The only reason I don't think the federal govt should immediately take over from the word go (in a disaster) is because I think the local and state leaders usually have a better idea of what is actually going on and are more familiar with the specifics of their area.

I think most people are in agreement that all levels of govt need to become more prepared, have more intricate plans in place BEFOREHAND and work together when needed.

 

[Charade]

As an aside....hi, Bet. I know you won't agree with most of this, but I think the needs of the few outweigh the needs of many in this sort of scenario.

If the fate of 100 people is death by rapidly rising waters and 3 people are waiting for transfer to a hospital for emergency life saving care and there is only enough resources available to save the 100, who should be saved?

As hard and sad as it may be, we have to face the fact that in certain situations not everyone can be saved.

 

[gina2000]

My point is only that in an evacuation procedure, those without resources, the elderly and the sick should be given priority whenever we can because they cannot help themselves. It's unrealistic to expect to be able to save everyone but it is reasonable to try to ensure safety for as many people as possible including those who cannot help themselves.

 

[BuckNaked]

My point is only that in an evacuation procedure, those without resources, the elderly and the sick should be given priority whenever we can because they cannot help themselves. It's unrealistic to expect to be able to save everyone but it is reasonable to try to ensure safety for as many people as possible including those who cannot help themselves.

I don't know that they should be given priority, but they should certainly be helped by the local government to find a way out. Unfortunately, that didn't happen in this case.