So who watched The Falcon and The Winter Soldier?

[BrianL]

Oh, I’m not disagreeing. My point was... He’s not Chris Evans

Oh, well, certainly he is not!

 

[dclpluto]

When the first episode ended I thought he was going to turn out to be a bad guy. On his interview with good morning America I thought there is no way they are going to have him turn out to be a bad guy.

 

[tinkerhon]

Oh, I’m not disagreeing. My point was... He’s not Chris Evans

My DD15 - "Dad, why is Buzz Lightyear playing Capt America?"

 

[Moliphino]

Yeah, but John didn't really do anything wrong. It's not his fault and he seems genuine. He reached out to them - really Sam and Bucky are in the wrong on the issue. Now, the Senator that went behind Sam's back - sure, that guy's a jerk. I just feel like it could all be worked out if they'd just take a moment to discuss it.

I don't think Sam and Bucky are in the wrong. They're very understandably upset by the situation and John thought he'd just go in, save the day, and somehow be all good. The situation isn't his fault, but he's really pushing too hard.

 

[mrsap]

My DD15 - "Dad, why is Buzz Lightyear playing Capt America?"

O M G!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love it!!!!!!!

That was kind of similar to my DD (at the time 12yo.) when the Mandalorian took his helmet off! “Why did he have to take his helmet off?!? I wish he didn’t do that.”

 

[tinkerhon]

O M G!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love it!!!!!!!

That was kind of similar to my DD (at the time 12yo.) when the Mandalorian took his helmet off! “Why did he have to take his helmet off?!? I wish he didn’t do that.”

We said the same, but this time is worse---- and its not just the look--- its the mannerisms. I mean, Chris Evans IS Capt, but Carl isnt cutting it for us )

 

[mrsap]

We said the same, but this time is worse---- and its not just the look--- its the mannerisms. I mean, Chris Evans IS Capt, but Carl isnt cutting it for us )

 

[BrianL]

I don't think Sam and Bucky are in the wrong. They're very understandably upset by the situation and John thought he'd just go in, save the day, and somehow be all good. The situation isn't his fault, but he's really pushing too hard.

Is he though? He came in wanting to team up, wanting to help. He gave tehm an olive branch and has only tried to help. All Sam has to do is talk with him about it but he refuses to. Shutting him out makes no sense.

 

[Moliphino]

Is he though? He came in wanting to team up, wanting to help. He gave tehm an olive branch and has only tried to help. All Sam has to do is talk with him about it but he refuses to. Shutting him out makes no sense.

They just lost Steve and now this random government chosen replacement (that neither one of them was happy about) won't leave them alone.

 

[BrianL]

They just lost Steve and now this random government chosen replacement (that neither one of them was happy about) won't leave them alone.

Yeah, but it's not John's fault. All they have to do is put their testosterone aside for a minute and have a chat:

"Hey, man, you know they totally blindsided me with you being a new Captain America."
"Yeah, I understand. It's not how I would have liked it to go down."
"It's difficult, but for now, let's put it aside and get the job done."

That's not unreasonable and John hasn't been shown to be an unreasonable sort. He just wants to do the work and he's trying. It's just silly macho nonsense getting int he way.

 

[Moliphino]

Why do they need to work with him, though? They don't know him, don't like the situation at all, and they were handling it in their way. They don't want the interference.

 

[BrianL]

Why do they need to work with him, though? They don't know him, don't like the situation at all, and they were handling it in their way. They don't want the interference.

THey should work with him because he can help. He wants to help. Why go it alone? Why be at a disadvantage. I do understand that John and Hoskins have rules of engagement that Falcon and Bucky don't - so, why not say "We'll work it from our angle and you work it from yours, but we'll keep in touch." There is no good reason given why they should be combative toward one another. Now, if the show wanted to pu thtem at odds, you have Falcon bring up the concerns, have John say something like "Well, like it or not, I'm Cap now and we're doing things MY way." That would create a different dynamic, but the show hasn't sold me on John being a problem to work with - he just dosen't seem like he is.

 

[Moliphino]

THey should work with him because he can help. He wants to help. Why go it alone? Why be at a disadvantage. I do understand that John and Hoskins have rules of engagement that Falcon and Bucky don't - so, why not say "We'll work it from our angle and you work it from yours, but we'll keep in touch." There is no good reason given why they should be combative toward one another. Now, if the show wanted to pu thtem at odds, you have Falcon bring up the concerns, have John say something like "Well, like it or not, I'm Cap now and we're doing things MY way." That would create a different dynamic, but the show hasn't sold me on John being a problem to work with - he just dosen't seem like he is.

I don't think he made a good impression swooping in uninvited acting like their savior, either (which he then failed at, too). Also the spying via Redwing. They followed Steve because of who he was, not because he was Captain America. They don't know this dude at all and he barges in expecting them to follow the shield that they don't think he should have in the first place. I don't think it's out of line for Sam and Bucky to say no thanks, we're good.

 

[BrianL]

I don't think he made a good impression swooping in uninvited acting like their savior, either (which he then failed at, too). Also the spying via Redwing. They followed Steve because of who he was, not because he was Captain America. They don't know this dude at all and he barges in expecting them to follow the shield that they don't think he should have in the first place. I don't think it's out of line for Sam and Bucky to say no thanks, we're good.

I didn't get the impression that he expected them to follow him at all. He did jump in ot help them - but there's nothign wrong with giving - and accepting - help. I'm sorry if it wounded Falcon's pride, but that's the same macho nonsense I've been talking about. They were getting whooped, and John and Battlestar got whooped too anyway. If they wanted John's actions to be contentious, they should have made them actually contentious in the show, but how things wen't down, right now, I don't think John did anything wrong.

 

[Moliphino]

I didn't get the impression that he expected them to follow him at all. He did jump in ot help them - but there's nothign wrong with giving - and accepting - help. I'm sorry if it wounded Falcon's pride, but that's the same macho nonsense I've been talking about. They were getting whooped, and John and Battlestar got whooped too anyway. If they wanted John's actions to be contentious, they should have made them actually contentious in the show, but how things wen't down, right now, I don't think John did anything wrong.

But do you not understand how Sam and Bucky would be completely put off by the whole situation and want nothing to do with him?

 

[bookgirl2632]

Bucky already has major trust issues and with good reason. There is no way he is going to trust some guy he doesn’t know at all. As for Sam, he’s got to feel betrayed. He gave the shield to the Smithsonian and they turn around and hand it to some random guy. Yes, I know he’s not random in the military’s eyes, but to Sam and Bucky, he is. So I totally get why neither one is ready to trust him or want to work with him.

 

[BrianL]

But do you not understand how Sam and Bucky would be completely put off by the whole situation and want nothing to do with him?

No, I do - but it could be dealt with in a more mature manner. I think the show maybe wanted John to be more offputting than they made him (he certainly could be in the comics) - as it stands though he doesn't really deserve to be shut out. While I do understand the slight Sam feels, sometimes you've just gotta get over stuff. John has made teh attempt to create a bridge, Sam hasn't.

Bucky already has major trust issues and with good reason. There is no way he is going to trust some guy he doesn’t know at all. As for Sam, he’s got to feel betrayed. He gave the shield to the Smithsonian and they turn around and hand it to some random guy. Yes, I know he’s not random in the military’s eyes, but to Sam and Bucky, he is. So I totally get why neither one is ready to trust him or want to work with him.

With Bucky, I understand. He's not exactly the most sensible or mature sort. I am disappointed in Sam though for not at least talking it out with Walker - or at least trying to.

 

[Moliphino]

No, I do - but it could be dealt with in a more mature manner. I think the show maybe wanted John to be more offputting than they made him (he certainly could be in the comics) - as it stands though he doesn't really deserve to be shut out. While I do understand the slight Sam feels, sometimes you've just gotta get over stuff. John has made teh attempt to create a bridge, Sam hasn't.



With Bucky, I understand. He's not exactly the most sensible or mature sort. I am disappointed in Sam though for not at least talking it out with Walker - or at least trying to.

I found him plenty off-putting. They aren't required to like him or work with him. They have no reason to trust him at all. He's the one who keeps butting in where he isn't wanted.

 

[starry_solo]

OK, I'm team Cap (the original, Steve Rogers).

I don't like the way John Walker was introduced. They had to have gotten his OK to become the new Captain America before he was introduced. So, when he was considering the offer, he could have reached out to Sam and Bucky (not sure how, but considering they put a bug/tapped Redwing, they could have figured it out) and let them know before the rest of the world that he was offered the position and was going to take it.

 

[BrianL]

I found him plenty off-putting. They aren't required to like him or work with him. They have no reason to trust him at all. He's the one who keeps butting in where he isn't wanted.

Isn't wanted? He's trying to be a superhero! They need as many people willing to do that job as they can get - you don't just say, nah, we got this. "Thanos is coming? Don't invite John Walker - he's a jerk. Well, he's not even really a jerk, but the senator who appointed him is even though John just tried to make the best of the situation - but still. If we're one guy short of beating Thanos, then oh well, because I don't want to let John do anything because my ego got bruised."

It's ridiculous. IF they wanted John to be offputting, they should have made him so. Now, that may change in future episodes, but so far he seems like a decent guy.