So When Did YOU Come Around on Same-Sex Marriage?

I really never had an opinion one way or the other until we made some friends who wanted nothing more than to be married but couldn't. Seeing their pain made me come around in a big way.
 
churches are not going to be forced to perform ceremonies it opposes. I don't understand why religious rights are being pulled into the discussion.
I think some things may be on the horizon such as taking away tax exempt status for churches that refuse to offer same gender ceremonies. Private companies already are being fined for refusing to participate in ceremonies for them.
 
I've never been against it. I'm not religious so I've never thought of marriage or being gay in terms of religion. And I was raised by a mother who strongly supported gay rights and that rubbed off on me.

Okay flamers, come and get me.
I honestly don't understand why we could not offer the same benefits of marriage to same gender couples, but for the sake of compromise, call it a civil union rather than marriage.

For me it would entirely depend on how it was implemented. I'm a straight woman who is married to a man. We're not religious in any way and our wedding was not religious. We don't have children and never really intended to. What does marriage vs civil union mean for us? How are we different from a gay couple? If civil unions are for gay couples and marriage is for straight couples, I would NOT be for that. If there was a complete separation of religious marriage and civil unions (which would be for both gay and straight couples), I could be persuaded that way.
 
I have never been against it, though at first I didn't really get why they wanted more than a 'civil union', but after talking to some friends/acquaintances and doing some research I understood.

I was raised in a very fundamentalist sect of a Christian denomination. I was 12 when I realized that they were not the kind of people I wanted to be associated with, but if I had stayed there I'm sure I'd be on the other side of this debate, so I get why some are so against it and will not change. However I also have family members and friends who are not religious and do not object on religious grounds, they are just not comfortable with the thought of homosexuality.

I am glad the majority of people in the US do get it, even if it's not the majority in my particular state.
 
I think some things may be on the horizon such as taking away tax exempt status for churches that refuse to offer same gender ceremonies. Private companies already are being fined for refusing to participate in ceremonies for them.

Same sex marriage has been legal in parts of the US for 10 years and nothing like that has happened. Do people really believe that will change?
 
I was having this very discussion with friends yesterday. I don't remember ever being "against" gay marriage, but it wasn't until maybe 10 years ago that I even thought it was possible. Before that, my gay friends didn't really even dream of this being a possibility. It just seemed such a reach from where the majority of Americans were at with it.

I've had close friends who were gay since I was 19. (Well, people I *knew* were gay and identified as such to me). I've always thought they were "just people." I am now 57 years old, so for nearly 40 years. It never occurred to me to treat them differently or hope for different things for them than I hoped for myself. I hoped they would find loving partners (and they have). I am so, so happy that their love can be recognized everywhere.
 
I think some things may be on the horizon such as taking away tax exempt status for churches that refuse to offer same gender ceremonies. Private companies already are being fined for refusing to participate in ceremonies for them.


I realize we're different countries BUT this didn't happen in Canada..what makes you think it will happen in the U.S.? Churches are still free to decide if they want to perform same sex marriages or not. No forcing. Honestly, you will not notice life is any different for you now except maybe now more people will be happier than before :)


I was never against same sex marriage and I commend the pps for being honest about their feelings.
 
Same *** marriage has been legal in parts of the US for 10 years and nothing like that has happened. Do people really believe that will change?

Well it's a great 'fear' campaign tool and one that opponents use among others. Personally I don't care if they take away churches tax exemptions. Most churches have no problem getting all up in the business of politics and government, so the whole separation of church and state is really a one sided law. I know this because every lawmaker in my state is all about their religion and how it's that religion that will govern their votes and time in office and the churches around here though all kinds of money and support towards those candidates.
 
I'm from the country that was the first one to legalize gay marriage back in 2001, I honestly don't remember ever being against it. I also don't remember it being that big of a deal there.
 
Okay flamers, come and get me.
I honestly don't understand why we could not offer the same benefits of marriage to same gender couples, but for the sake of compromise, call it a civil union rather than marriage.


Because there are literally 100's (if not thousands) of federal and state laws that confer benefits/rights/privileges on "married" people. Can you imagine the WORK (needless, IMO) that would be required to (a) research each and everyone of these laws, and (b) amend each and everyone of these laws to include "civil union" people? What a waste of government resources. Not to mention reprinting every single form/document to include both married/civil union people. ETA: I also don't doubt for one minute that there would be an active campaign in some state legislatures to make sure that "civil union" people didn't get certain benefits and privileges....like "that benefit is ONLY for married people, not civil union people." It would be a long drawn out battle to be fought state by state and litigation by litigation to make certain that "separate" really was equal.

Marriage is a legal term. "Holy Matrimony" is the religious term used by some, but not all Christian denominations. That's enough of distinction in my book.
 
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Marriage has been defined traditionally as the joining of a husband and wife, but has now been amended. I think it would have been a decent compromise for those against it based on it being called something other than marriage but with the same rights and privileges. A lot of those opposed to same gender marriage would agree to this. Some benefit for both sides. I have spoken of this to some of my gay friends (yes I have gay friends), and they agree it would have been acceptable.
Some of you close minded individuals will argue to no end against anything but total acceptance by everyone, but let's face it, people have different beliefs.

The major problem with that solution is how incredibly wasteful it is - instead of amending the civil definition of marriage, it would require the vast undertaking of amending hundreds of different laws, statues, and policies at the federal, state, and local level as well as in private industry. That was the problem with civil unions right from the start - they were never legally equal to marriages and there was never (and probably would never be) sufficient support for remedying that inequality. What good is a civil union if the IRS only allows married couples to file jointly, marriage is a pre-requisite for second-parent adoption, and spousal benefits are only extended to married couples?

Civil unions were the marital equivalent of "separate but equal". Separate, sure, but they fall well short of offering equality.
 
Same *** marriage has been legal in parts of the US for 10 years and nothing like that has happened. Do people really believe that will change?

I think things are a lot different when things go "national". And yes, there are indeed people who believe churches will eventually be forced to perform gay marriages. I don't, BUT to be fair to those who do believe so, one doesn't have to search far to find people who believe churches SHOULD be forced to either perform gay marriages or suffer some sort of consequences.
 
I just didn't have much of an opinion for a long time. I grew up in a very conservative household/community and I am a Christian with an active relationship with Christ. That being said, I was never taught to hate gay people and the gay marriage topic wasn't pushed on me one way or another, so I never really had a lot of thoughts on it.

I became friends with an amazingly sweet friend about 8 months ago who is a lesbian. She had the same weight loss surgery that I did, and similarly to myself has suffered through much depression and struggle in her life. Her girlfriend loved her through everything, at 400 lbs and now at a much smaller size. I had the same experience with my sweet husband, and having someone stand by you like that when you are SO broken...it changes you.

I would be devastated if I had been unable to marry the love of my life, the one who stood by me and loved me when I was invisible. And I realized then that no one should be denied the feeling of marrying their soulmate.
 
Marriage has been defined traditionally as the joining of a husband and wife, but has now been amended. I think it would have been a decent compromise for those against it based on it being called something other than marriage but with the same rights and privileges. A lot of those opposed to same gender marriage would agree to this. Some benefit for both sides. I have spoken of this to some of my gay friends (yes I have gay friends), and they agree it would have been acceptable.

Gay people like everybody else are pretty diverse. So I don't doubt your friends held the view you suggest. But they are surely in the minority amongst lgbq people as is clear from the way the movement for equal rights has gone. (Though I am curious whether these friends have actually endorsed this "solution" as just/fair/equal, or if they had rather said that it might be the wisest course of action in terms of political strategy--that is, a very suboptimal solution but perhaps the best we could realistically get. If it was the latter, well obviously they were wrong on the political strategy! It was not the best we got, we got actual equality.)

Really, it's hard to believe after more than a decade of debate about this issue that you haven't heard every explanation of why the civil union for gays, marriage for straights option is completely unacceptable. (Do you really need them rehearsed again? You know, separate is not equal. This degrades same-sex relationships by purposefully marking them as different--and hence lesser--as not the "best" kind of relationship. [Not that I agree that marriage is the best kind of relationship, but that is clearly the dominate societal view.] Would it have been an acceptable compromise on the issue of interracial marriage to call interracial relationships "civil unions" to appease people who thought the races shouldn't mix? Why in the world would anyone "compromise" on their basic civil rights? etc. etc. No doubt all of this has been explained to you many times before. I guess you either haven't been listening, or aren't trying to understand. Or maybe sincerely have been but just find the ideas totally foreign? How that could be I don't know. But whatever.)

But hey, if we need compromise why not downgrade straight marriages to "civil unions" and let the gays have a chance at "marriage"? Straights have been keeping the institution to themselves all this time, it's only fair right?! I mean, if there's nothing at all unequal about one's relationship being called a civil rather than a marriage then why aren't straight people happy to accept that solution? Explain to your kids that, no, mommy and daddy are not allowed to be married they are just "civil unionized." No more using the terms spouse, wife, husband, etc.; you'll have to stick with partner, which means people will be constantly confused about whether you have a loving committed relationship or own a business together. When you try to get health insurance through your employer it'll be a fiasco because while HR knows what "marriage" is, they have no idea what a civil union is or why they should treat it similar to a marriage. And so on. If you would happily be onboard with all of that for your personal relationship, then hey I guess we just see the world very differently, since I would not be okay with any of that. But if any of that does bother you, well, then there is your answer about why separate but equal is not actually equal.




On the OP's question, I am bisexual (now married to a woman for the past 5 years, with her for 10 total) and realized that about myself in college. I was involved with gay rights activism before actually realizing that about myself (but having some curiosity lets say). So I remember certainly throughout all of high school (that would be the mid-late 90s) being pro-SSM. But can't remember much before that. I did go to Catholic school until 8th grade and so was indoctrinated with those views on sexuality. I know I went through a year of being crazily anti-abortion at age 12--due to the religious influence no doubt--but that didn't last long at all. But I can't remember my actual thoughts on gay rights issues.

I do think this is an interesting question because so many people have changed their opinions and in such a short period of time. And I think there is a tendency for people to actually forget what their earlier opinion used to be once the tide has turned or their view has radically changed (e.g. there are opinion polls/surveys from 2003 and a decade later showing that apparently lots of people who supported the war in Iraq t the time it began don't remember doing so or refuse to admit it because the % who supported at the time and the % who now admit having supported at the time are significantly different.) I think it's important also to study how these changes happen so that we figure out how to achieve future civil rights goals better and faster by strategizing as best as we can.
 
I think things are a lot different when things go "national". And yes, there are indeed people who believe churches will eventually be forced to perform gay marriages. I don't, BUT to be fair to those who do believe so, one doesn't have to search far to find people who believe churches SHOULD be forced to either perform gay marriages or suffer some sort of consequences.

Can you point me to such a person? Because I am a radical queer atheist feminist and friends with lots of the same people who are very active in the lgbtq rights movement. Not a person I've ever spoken to about this has ever (EVER!) suggested actual religious bodies should have to perform marriages that go against their faith as a matter of law/public policy. Nor have I ever (EVER!) heard anyone say that religious bodies who refuse to do so should in anyway be punished by the government. Where are these people and why have I never met them, heard their views, read anything by them?

(Now the issue of tax exemptions, that is a whole different story that goes way beyond actually *performing* weddings and also goes way beyond religious bodies themselves, but applies to schools, universities, adoption agencies, etc. and to discrimination against lgbq people much more generally than about marriage itself. Those views I am familiar with, but that is not what is being claimed regarding the "churches will be forced to perform SSM" idea.)
 
Can you point me to such a person? Because I am a radical queer atheist feminist and friends with lots of the same people who are very active in the lgbtq rights movement. Not a person I've ever spoken to about this has ever (EVER!) suggested actual religious bodies should have to perform marriages that go against their faith as a matter of law/public policy. Nor have I ever (EVER!) heard anyone say that religious bodies who refuse to do so should in anyway be punished by the government. Where are these people and why have I never met them, heard their views, read anything by them?

(Now the issue of tax exemptions, that is a whole different story that goes way beyond actually *performing* weddings and also goes way beyond religious bodies themselves, but applies to schools, universities, adoption agencies, etc. and to discrimination against lgbq people much more generally than about marriage itself. Those views I am familiar with, but that is not what is being claimed regarding the "churches will be forced to perform SSM" idea.)

Well, maybe "I" just don't have to look far. My wife's cousin says stuff like this all the time; I have to assume he can't be the only one. Oddly enough, I don't think he's ever been in anything even approaching a committed relationship.
 
Marriage has been defined traditionally as the joining of a husband and wife, but has now been amended. I think it would have been a decent compromise for those against it based on it being called something other than marriage but with the same rights and privileges. A lot of those opposed to same gender marriage would agree to this. Some benefit for both sides. I have spoken of this to some of my gay friends (yes I have gay friends), and they agree it would have been acceptable.
Some of you close minded individuals will argue to no end against anything but total acceptance by everyone, but let's face it, people have different beliefs.

Separate but equal hasn't really worked out so well in the past.
 
I don't remember ever being against it, but I also wasn't necessarily for it. It just wasn't something I thought about until college. Coincidentally I'm a lesbian so now I'm very much for it.

I remember the first conversation I had with my mom about it. I had asked why my voice teacher wasn't married. She told me that Michael was gay but was very Christian and did not believe it was right for him to act on those feelings. I haven't spoken to him in many years, but wherever he is I hope he's happy and he's found someone, if that's what he wanted. It never changed how I thought about him as a kid though.
 
Some of you close minded individuals will argue to no end against anything but total acceptance by everyone, but let's face it, people have different beliefs.

Total acceptance is an impossibility. However, it is pretty clear that there is widening (most likely majority) acceptance. The most important thing at this point is that government in the US can no longer prohibit SSM nor refuse to acknowledge it. It was really a mess when it came to taxes. One could be federally recognized as a married couple, but the state of residence might not recognize it and it made for some interesting tax filings. I also remember when the DoD gave paid leave for someone to be married if they weren't in a state where they could be married. That's probably going to change.
 
I think some things may be on the horizon such as taking away tax exempt status for churches that refuse to offer same gender ceremonies. Private companies already are being fined for refusing to participate in ceremonies for them.

Why do you believe that? I'm interested to hear your reasoning. And if you have any proof.
 
















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