So tired of the "teachers work for free every day" FB posts

[disykat]

Just a math issue...

If you make 45k for 10 months of work, that's 4,500 a month. If you worked an additional 2 months a year, that would be an additional 9k (4,500 x 2). 45k +9k is 53k not 58k.

I did the math based on days worked, not by the a monthly salary. I get paid for roughly 190 days of work. If I worked year round I might work around 245 days. 45/190 =x/245. There are many ways to do the math, but a daily rate is how we're paid and doesn't mix in holidays, so I went with that to give the benefit of the doubt to the year rounders. 53k would have made the case stronger for a teacher salaries are low argument, but that wasn't my goal.

 

[kamik86]

I don't have a choice. If I did, it might be less confusing for people to understand. I don't think it matters how I get my paycheck, the amount is the same either way. The fact that I'm paid by a certain contracted number of days stays the same.

The thing about these conversations is that now there's a bunch of people out there that think I'm complaining about my salary. I'm not. I'm responding to a question and giving my opinions on the people saying that I get paid to have vacation. You won't find me posting on Facebook that I'm working for free. However, you will find me defending myself to anyone who says I'm getting paid for time I'm not working.

Its not that you are getting paid for time not working... its that teachers work less then other professionals. No other profession that I know of has a full 2 months of the year out of work. Even with all our PTO (combination of vacation and sick time) we only get about 4 weeks. I assume teachers also get sick time still right? So teachers work less of the year.

Now if you say your salary is yearly then I guess you kind of do get paid for vacations but so do I (I still draw a paycheck if I go to WDW for a week as part of my PTO) so agree with you that this part isn't different.

 

[morgan98]

I think the "hot button" in some of these threads is that in past threads teachers have complained about compensation and don't seem to want to acknowledge the fact that they are not being paid for a full year. However, none of the teachers that have posted on this particular thread are complaining about their salaries. If they feel they are underpaid and/or need more money they can get a job over the 2 months they are not working to supplement their teaching salary.

I do think others get "jealous" over the fact that teachers are fortunate in that they do get time off every year, yet have a guaranteed job to return to after each break. Quite frankly, I would love to take 8 weeks off in the summer (and forfeit my salary for that period) but that would not work for my employer or my job duties.

 

[SandiR]

Actually, it's 54K (which is still not 58K).

Yes, you are correct, of course. Typo! Oops!

I fixed it.

 

[scoutie]

During the summer months, you are not being paid to work on those days. So if you are planning your curriculum during those non-contracted days, you are indeed working for free

Technically...yes. I am. I agree with you. I suppose I do have the option of not working on it over the summer, and then putting in a lot of extra hours during the school week.

My summers off are a wonderful perk of my job that I enjoy. Everybody in my family has commented on how happy and stress-free I am, compared to during the school year. I know I couldn't be a teacher without this break. As an aside, this summer, I've really liked working from home, which is a job perk that many others have. I guess we are all envious of other professions for different reasons.

 

[Dizlvr]

She is not a new teacher....and she has a masters in teaching.
She does know what a Title One school is.....student taught in one, but in WA state where schools are better.
She did not know about tutoring or all the meetings (her district has more than usual, almost every day), not 4 days of duty. Last year it was 3.
At least she doesn't have to spend her lunch time commuting to a different school like some of the teachers do.
This is a remote district.
And I am not the original poster
That was just my addition

You are right you aren't the OP my mistake.

In your post you said you needed to "speak up" but I'm not really sure what your point was in doing so. The impression I got from what you said is that your dd was unprepared for the profession she chose. I understand things come up in the course of employment, like extra meetings but that isn't exclusive to the teaching profession. All the other stuff is stuff your dd should have known before going in especially if she has her Master's.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Just a math issue...

If you make 45k for 10 months of work, that's 4,500 a month. If you worked an additional 2 months a year, that would be an additional 9k (4,500 x 2). 45k +9k is 54k not 58k.

If you include ALL the unpaid breaks & not just Summer, it comes out as PP stated

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

Exactly. You can't compare apples to apples with a teacher's salary vs. someone who works year round. We don't work during the summer. However, we also don't get paid for time we aren't working - despite the fact that paychecks continue to come. You won't catch me complaining about my salary. But I will continue to defend the fact that I'm not paid for the days I'm not working when these conversations come up- because I'm not. I fail to understand why that irritates people so much. I actually make right around 45K and would make around 58K if I worked year round. The comparison is a relatively easy formula because we get paid based on days worked.

Most people don't get paid for the time they're not working.

Your argument holds true for the summer, but teachers do get an equivelent to PTO during the school year as well. Teachers get sick and personal days plus school holidays, spring, Thanksgiving, and winter break.

When talking about salary teachers work substantially fewer days for that salary than most people who have to work 12-months a year with less PTO than even school breaks.

I'm not sure why you're so particular about making sure everybody knows you don't get paid for not working. Your salary is for the year and you work for 10-months. Your argument seems very steeped in semantics to me.

I think teachers have a tough job and I'm sure you put in extra hours. So do most people working these days, I don't understand why teachers (in general) seem to need more validation for their overtime.

 

[scoutie]

I don't understand why teachers (in general) seem to need more validation for their overtime.

Most of us don't, but if you look at any thread about education, there are usually quite a few people who say things like, "I wish I could have a job and get paid from working seven hours a day with summers off." Teachers are simply pointing out that this isn't true. I don't see any teacher on this thread looking for validation.

 

[disykat]

Most people don't get paid for the time they're not working.

Your argument holds true for the summer, but teachers do get an equivelent to PTO during the school year as well. Teachers get sick and personal days plus school holidays, spring, Thanksgiving, and winter break.

When talking about salary teachers work substantially fewer days for that salary than most people who have to work 12-months a year with less PTO than even school breaks.

I'm not sure why you're so particular about making sure everybody knows you don't get paid for not working. Your salary is for the year and you work for 10-months. Your argument seems very steeped in semantics to me.

I think teachers have a tough job and I'm sure you put in extra hours. So do most people working these days, I don't understand why teachers (in general) seem to need more validation for their overtime.

Isn't that the topic of this thread? Everyone has their pet peeves. For me it's people insisting they know better than me how my pay works. No big deal - until you log on to the DIS! I don't think I've ever discussed this topic except here. (Most people I deal with IRL understand that teachers have a shortened work year and get paid accordingly.)

The next time you wake up in the middle of the night, think about how lucky you are because you're getting paid for it and maybe you'll get my point.

 

[Jennasis]

I'm self employed...I work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I do not get days off, including holidays. It takes an act of Congress to arrange a vacation. I do not draw a paycheck. Anything I earn goes back into the business.

But it's the life and career I chose and I love it and wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[#1hoosierfan]

One other way teaching is not like a professional job:
Many teachers have a union. If teachers want to be treated as professionals maybe they shouldn't have one

That could possibly be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. I have a bachelor's degree, master's degree, and I am getting ready to start on a second master's degree to be a literacy specialist. I have 16 years classroom experience with excellent evaluations. Being in a union does not negate all of that. I am VERY much a professional.

 

[Sabeking]

First I want to know where you get paid 90,000 to teach? That's one hot salary! When I left after 10 years I was up to 45,000 I think. I worked a ton of hours and a lot over summer but I was an organization freak so I'll put most of that on me. I agree with some of the other posters that mentioned teachers can be on the defensive because they do get ribbed about having the summer off. My response was always, " yes, I am very lucky to have the summer off....I have build up my strength for the kid who will call me a MF, bite me and throw furniture at my other students before I put him in a special hold so he doesn't harm himself or others." Lol! I'm actually not kidding, my school was a neighborhood school that eventually bused kids in......but that's another thread.

I think unlike most/not all other professions people are passionate on both sides, teachers vs. non teachers because it involves our kids, their education, their feelings ,teacher respect or lack there of, personal expenditures on teachers parts, etc...with all of those issues a discussion can roll off the rails. I mean how often are people discussing a dental hygienist salary?

Personally, I loved teaching and miss it. My first class that I taught first grade in just graduated this past year from college. Man I'm getting old

 

[SnowWhite112]

Just a college student's perspective here...

I'm studying to be a teacher. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard classmates at my university say "Oh, I'm becoming a teacher because they get sooooo much time off. It's an easy and fun job that I'll have after just four years of college." I believe a lot of people going into the teaching profession are doing so because they think it's an "easy" job and "where else will I get paid 45k with so much time off?!" These people are in for a rude awakening when they actually begin to teach.

Also... I am required by my school to do "field experience" for about 50 hours every semester. This means I have to sit inside an actual classroom at a pre-approved school and observe the teacher and students. When speaking to many of these teachers, I ask them how they got into their profession. 3/4 teachers I've observed have said something along the lines of "I wanted to be a doctor, but after 4 years of college I just couldn't take it/afford it anymore. So I took my biology degree and just became a teacher."

I also hear many people at my school say "I'm going to get a degree in _____. If that doesn't work out, I'll just become a teacher!"

Teaching is not a profession for people who are not passionate about learning, children, etc. So many people choose teaching as their "easy way out" and then end up miserable. Nobody says "screw it, I'll just become a nurse!" when they aren't interested in medicine, or as their plan B career, because it's a career that is acknowledged as being difficult and requiring immense amounts of dedication. But for some reason, teaching is used as a "plan B" or as an "easy job". People need to realize that's not what it is. I think that's most likely the problem with the teachers mentioned in this thread.

So yeah, we don't work for free. It's just a part of the job that people don't realize they signed up for.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I think one thing to remember about teaching is that it's not a homogenous profession. The amount of "unpaid" time a teacher puts in is dependent upon many things. Even assuming equal levels of dedication (which isn't realistic), some require more time than others to prepare for the same things.

Some districts have different requirements & different quantities of planning time available during the school day.

The subject matters too. If you're teaching honors English to middle schoolers, you're going to spend more of your own time on work than say the PE teacher (or even the Algebra teacher, honestly).

Etc, etc.

 

[mylittlebuttercup]

I teach, so I have many friends who are teachers. Many of them are FB friends as well.

I am getting so tired of the "Every school in America has teachers working for free every day" type of posts. It always goes on to talk about how we come in early, stay late, and do work at home grading or responding to e-mails or whatever, and then always mentions how we don't get overtime.

Well, guess what? We're salaried. We're not hourly employees. That means we don't get overtime. We all entered this profession knowing this. We entered it knowing, too, that we don't get bonuses, but we also know that we don't have to report to our workplace during winter break, spring break, and for just over 2 months every summer.

I hear teachers complain that they feel like "the public" doesn't treat them as professionals, and yet they turn right around and complain about doing work outside of normal work hours. Most professionals I know do this!

/Rant over, flame suit on.

As a teacher myself, posts like you described annoy me somewhat too because it makes my profession look self-entitled and whiny. I don't repost that kind of thing, but I do partly understand why some of my teaching friends do. We are at a place right now where our profession is constantly being attacked by politicians and the like, and there are always those people with the refrain that teachers have it sooooo easy because they have summers off. So I think some of my teacher friends post stuff like that to remind people that teachers spend so much time working at home during the school year that it kind of balances out summers off. I do disagree that most professionals work beyond normal work hours though. There are some that do but plenty that do not too. If my husband brings home work on some evenings to meet a deadline, he then gets to work less hours later in the week. I know quite a few other professionals whose work completely stays at work. It all depends on the profession.

No flames coming from me. Besides the time off for vacations, many teachers also get time off during the day when the kids are at recess, art, music, PE, library, and other special classes.

It is not really time off; teachers are prepping for their lessons during that time, grading papers, writing lesson plans, attending professional learning communities, meeting with or calling parents, etc. Really a teacher's only true time off is lunch, and many work through that too.

 

[mylittlebuttercup]

Most people don't get paid for the time they're not working.

Your argument holds true for the summer, but teachers do get an equivelent to PTO during the school year as well. Teachers get sick and personal days plus school holidays, spring, Thanksgiving, and winter break.

When talking about salary teachers work substantially fewer days for that salary than most people who have to work 12-months a year with less PTO than even school breaks.

I'm not sure why you're so particular about making sure everybody knows you don't get paid for not working. Your salary is for the year and you work for 10-months. Your argument seems very steeped in semantics to me.

I think teachers have a tough job and I'm sure you put in extra hours. So do most people working these days, I don't understand why teachers (in general) seem to need more validation for their overtime.

Yes, we do get slightly more paid time off during the school year, mostly at Christmas break because most of my other days off are federal holidays that many businesses give off. That is correct.

However, you are incorrect in saying it is a year's salary for ten months of work, at least in my district. Our contracts specifically state that they are ten month contracts, NOT twelve month contracts like administrators, secretaries, etc. We are paid accordingly. In fact, we had a couple of twelve month administrative positions that were cut back to ten months for budgetary reasons. Did they make the same? Nope, they took a huge pay cut, losing approx. 1/6 of their original salary.

And I think teachers seek more validation because they are attacked more than a lot of other professions.

 

[mylittlebuttercup]

One other way teaching is not like a professional job:
Many teachers have a union. If teachers want to be treated as professionals maybe they shouldn't have one.

This is absurd. You do realize there are other unions that either fully or partially represent white-collar jobs, right? American Federation of Government Employees, Writers Guild, etc.

 

[mylittlebuttercup]

Just to get this out of the way, I like teachers and my daughters have been blessed with some very good ones over the years. Since my girls are 13 years apart in age, I have and will continue to be involved in the K-12 educational system for many years and have dealt with and will continue to deal with a lot of teachers. My youngest started Kindergarten the year my oldest started college so, by the time it's all said and done, I will have been involved in K-12 schools for 26 years in a row (minus the 3 years we homeschooled).

That being said, I completely understand what the teachers are saying about not being paid for summers even if they receive a check during those months. I get it. They are being paid for 10 months of work. The problem I have with it is that teachers tend to express their salary in yearly terms. "I earn $46,000 per year". They then compare that figure to other professional salaries and argue that they are underpaid. In other words, they are comparing part-time work to full-time work when they express their salary on a yearly basis. Now, I am not saying that teachers work part-time during the school year. They do work full-time for ten months out of the year and I don't dispute at all that they occasionally or even often have to put in extra hours during those ten months. That is, however, not any different than most professionals who, in my experience, rarely work solely from nine to five, five days per week. The difference is that other professionals work their hours, including extra hours for which they receive no extra compensation, for 12 months out of the year instead of 10.

I also think teachers tend to forget when discussing their pay that they are one of the few remaining professions that receives a pension. A pension is a huge benefit that a lot of professionals, even professionals with advanced degrees, do not receive. My husband is a professional who is lucky enough to work in a job where he will receive a pension and his employer contributes to his 401(k) as do we. I, on the other hand, am also a professional with an advanced degree and I am required to fund my own retirement and will never have a pension with a guaranteed monthly income in my old age. In other words, a pension is a huge benefit that many teachers do not consider when evaluating their pay because they won't receive the financial benefit for a long time. It is nonetheless a huge financial benefit of the job and one that a lot of teachers do not consider when evaluating their pay.

You will never hear me saying I am underpaid as a teacher. Would I like to make more? Sure, I think we all would! But I make fair pay and have great health benefits for a ten-month contract and I realize that. I would NOT count the pensions as a huge benefit in some states, though. There are some states that currently have pension systems in dire trouble because in past years, the state took away money budgeted for pensions and used it to balance the yearly budget elsewhere. Now they have dug themselves into a hole, and it is entirely possible that the pension system will go broke before any of the people currently paying into it can collect from it.

 

[mylittlebuttercup]

If teachers are doing all that during the breaks at school then why do they so often complain that they need to do it in the evenings, on their "own" time?

You really think teachers can get done all of their work in the measly two or so hours of prep time they get a week? I would say most weeks I put in an additional ten hours per week minimum, often more. And when I first started teaching, it was even more than that.

Teachers can choose to get paid for those summer months; they can have their yearly salary distributed over 12 months instead of 10.

Absolutely untrue for many teachers. Many districts, including mine, do not offer this option, so we cannot choose it. And even if we could, you are still only getting paid for ten months; they are just playing banker and holding back some of your money for you.

I know what teachers make in my town; it's public information, and I take the time to look to see what taxpayers are paying these "underpaid" souls. I hardly think that for 180 days (plus several extra days before/after school start and end) that the salaries are low, especially once taking into account funded pensions and free health care. Many teachers in my town earn over $90,000 a year.

The only school districts I have ever seen close to that are in an extremely high COL area, reserved for teachers with PhD, and only available after 20-30 years of teaching.