So now they're trying to out thrill Six Flags?

[HB2K]

More proof that Ei$ner just doesn't get it....

Jim Hill speaks of DCA's "rebirth" as a thrill park

Come the Spring of 2004, with the official opening of DCA's "Twilight Zone Tower of Terror," look for the Mouse to continue to push this difference between Disneyland and Disney's California Adventure. That "The Happiest Place on Earth" is still where you want to go if you want fine family fun, while DCA is where you really want to go if you want to scream your head off. Get your fill of edginess and thrills.

That's wonderfull. Absolutely wonderfull.

So does this mean future expansions meant to turn Anahiem into a vacation destination are in the trash? If so it will join Go.Com, the Secret Lab, et al as concepts which COULD have been successes had they been properly funded & managed.

Look for Mickey's marketing staff to try and cement Disney's California Adventure's new image with Southern Californians when it announces (as part of the hoopla surrounding the Tower of Terror's grand opening next year) that another clone of a highly successful Disney-MGM thrill ride -- The "Rock 'n' Roller Coaster starring Aerosmith" -- is coming to DCA in 2006.

I wonder if they'll add a subtitle to the name of the park (like Six Flags does).

If so I'll nominate Attack of the Clones.

Way to make people want to come to California guys (which was the original justification for DCA wasn't it?)!

 

[d-r]

Actually, I disagree. This would be a good move.

Jim Hill....

First of all, is there anyone who didn't think that DCA was adding rock n roller coaster after tower of terror? Haven't you seen that schematic thing showing how it fits in the "hollywood" area or whatever it is called?

Second of all, is there anyone who really thinks that tower of terror or rock n roller coaster are six flags type rides? Please. These two e-tickets are not theme-less magic mountain rides - nore are they big thrills like X. Six flags like? Please, come on.

Third - isn't it funny that when DCA was opened hard core disney people complained that they were trying to make it more "edgy" away from the disneyland model. Then they added a bugs land. Now, they are changing their direction to be more "edgy?" HUH?

Fourth, one of the biggest complaints I've ever read about DCA was that it wasn't intereting to people from California, because the theme is "CALIFORNIA," and since most of the people who went to Disneyland were Californians, and the vast majority were westerners at least, this wasn't interesting and Disney had made a real mistake - now if they are trying to make it more interesting to Californians it is a mistake? I say thank goodness they have figured it out!! Disneyland is never going to be a week long destination like WDW, but it is a two or three night destination, and these additions make that more so.

Fifth, rock n roller coaster and tower of terror fit the California theme perfectly. It isn't like they have abandoned the theme, no matter how hard californians wish they would.

Finally, the other major complaint about DCA was that there were not enough major attractions - adding two e-tickets is a plus, I'd think. I've said before and I'll say again that tower of terror and rock n roller coaster will help dca. It will really benefit from a couple of high quality e-tickets. I just hope they get the budget to do it, and I wish they could have it in by 2005, but I don't think it will. And of course I hope that they will do something to help DISNEYLAND, especially TOMORROWLAND!~

DR

 

[Peter Pirate]

In the AK thread I counted the number of (what would generally be considered) quality rides at DCA and it's quite impressive (10).

Also, you're absolutely correct in pulling 'RnR' from the average ride list. It's theming and quality are superlative...

As for people travelling to see DCA, we've gone to DL two years in a row as a part of a 'Western Trip' and the advantages offered due to DCA were (in no small) part of the reason we went back the second year...

I too am amazed at the shift in negative opinion whenever Disney attmpts to do 'something'. It very often comes across as an 'I hate Eisner, Disney can do nothing good no matter what' attitude.' As proof I offer the huge initial resistence to 'M:S', some even guranteed it would be scaled back to 'nothing'. Well this apparantey hasn't happned and now that the extremly good reviews are surfacing the doubters have not recanted...Simply faded away to attack another area. 'E:E' maybe...

 

[MelissathePooh]

I don't have the problem with clone rides that some people have. New things are good too, but WDW's Magic Kingdom was a virtual complete clone of Disneyland and its worked out just fine. If the attraction they're cloning is a good one to start with that is!

I think the main problem is the whole idea of Disneyland being a destination location. Its just not and I don't see how it ever could be - no offense to the residents, but have you ever seen Anaheim? Disneyland is pretty much a 3 day tops type trip. Now a person could then head off from there for a California trip and fill up as much time as they want, but Disneyland Resort itself is a pretty quick study.

Provided someone goes during the week - 2 days and the "Magic Kingdom" and you'll have done at least everything and most things twice - 1 day at CA - which is PLENTY even with the add's of ToT and perhaps RnRC.

Its never going to be a week long stay for the majority of vacationers.

But aside from all that I've never really seen Jim Hill as being the "official" spokesperson for Disney.

Melissa

 

[KNWVIKING]

Most of the rides currently there lean that direction already. Not sure where Bugs Life fits into the theme at this point,but it shouldn't be a major issue. I think a more thrill ride oriented park is a good match for DL. Between DL and DCA, you can basically offer something for the entire family.Mom and DD head to DL, dad and DS head over to DCA.

As for ride cloning: I really don't have a problem with cloning a good ride. I'd love for a WDW park to have a "Soarin' ride. Why should I have to travel 3000 miles for a ride ? Do the anti-clone people have a problem with WDW having a PoC or DL having Splash ? To me a good ride is a good ride. I don't care if there is one just like it in DL. And I'm not going to be upset if DCA gets an M:S.

 

[MelissathePooh]

Yeah - no one really complained too much when they "cloned" Splash Mountain at WDW (any of the mountains!)

Melissa

 

[HB2K]

Second of all, is there anyone who really thinks that tower of terror or rock n roller coaster are six flags type rides? Please. These two e-tickets are not theme-less magic mountain rides - nore are they big thrills like X. Six flags like? Please, come on.

I don't have the problem with clone rides that some people have. New things are good too, but WDW's Magic Kingdom was a virtual complete clone of Disneyland and its worked out just fine. If the attraction they're cloning is a good one to start with that is!

Yeah - no one really complained too much when they "cloned" Splash Mountain at WDW (any of the mountains!)

OK....here goes.

First off - The rumored version of the rides to be installed in DCA are clones in name and function only. Very little of the theme elements are supposed to head west.

TOT is missing the 3rd Dimmension room, at minimum. The Rock & Rollercoaster clone is rumored to have NONE of the Aerosmith elements the RnR has in Orlando.

So using the rumored RnR I'll answer the question above....is it any better than a ride at Six Flags without the Aerosmith tie in?

For my money....No. Try Skull Mountain at Six Flags Great Adventure....it's a similar coaster (through the dark with black light stand ins). The only thing that sets RnR apart is the Aerosmith story & preshow.

And to the point of the cloned Mountains...

I probably wouldn't have as much of a problem with the clones if they were done better than the original...but we all know that's not the way Disney operates any more.

The pirates clone in Florida was forced on Disney...It was demanded by the general public, and once it was determined to be built, it was seen not as a way to economize existing technology or blueprints but as a way to correct things that were done wrong the first time.....it's a lesson Disney should learn from with regard to their newest clones....

 

[KNWVIKING]

I always thought DL got the Splash Mountain clone, WDW had the original. Was I misinformed ?


*** "First off - The rumored version of the rides to be installed in DCA are clones in name and function only. Very little of the theme elements are supposed to head west.

TOT is missing the 3rd Dimmension room, at minimum. The Rock & Rollercoaster clone is rumored to have NONE of the Aerosmith elements the RnR has in Orlando." ***

I've never read these rumors. It will be interesting to see the finished product. Seems odd though to spend the money to build a RnR coaster and cheap out on the Aerosmith portion.

 

[KNWVIKING]

*** "The pirates clone in Florida was forced on Disney...It was demanded by the general public, and once it was determined to be built, it was seen not as a way to economize existing technology or blueprints but as a way to correct things that were done wrong the first time.....it's a lesson Disney should learn from with regard to their newest clones...." ***

Okay, now I'm really confused.Everything I've heard,read and seen is that the WDW clone was a rushed,poor imatation of the original. And from my own ride experience,I'd agree. IMO the DL original is by far the better ride.

 

[Spectro is #1]

Second of all, is there anyone who really thinks that tower of terror or rock n roller coaster are six flags type rides?

From my recent Back Stage Magic Tour Guide James

"RnRC is an off the shelf ride system, anyone can buy one"

The quote was in refrance to what makes Disney Disney. Mainly the Disney Characters and the branding they bring.

 

[KNWVIKING]

***"Also, I've always been told that the WDW version of Splash Mtn. is much more detailed and better than the DL version." ***

Absolutely. I meant to include a similar statement in my above post but lost my train of thought.

Both DW and I prefer DL's PotC and WDW's Splash. The DL version of Splash just seemed way to dark, like they were trying to hide the lack of detail by turning down the lights.

 

[crusader]

No way is RnRC in the same ballpark as Skull Mountain. The launch and loop alone make a substantial difference. I get your point but there's not much beyond the track type that you can say is at all equivalent. Hey - its' nice to see someone else lurking in my neck of the woods.

Last time I went to Six Flags I spent two hours there and left. It's nothing compared to the west coast or cedarpoint and Superman is way too slow and mild. (I'm talking about the new coaster at Great Adventure not Magic Mountain)

But enough of that - back to DCA............
This is a great thing they are attempting to do with this park. It needs to compete with the other parks out there which means - more thrill and intensity!

Why is X so great? Because its' one of a kind and worth the price of admission. The West Coast is notorious for innovention which is definately attractive to a young adult. I view ToT and RnRC as quick additions to a failing park. Hopefully more unique and cutting edge as the Mummy purports to be will also be lurking in the plans.

 

[pheneix]

>>>As proof I offer the huge initial resistence to 'M:S', some even guranteed it would be scaled back to 'nothing'. Well this apparantey hasn't happned and now that the extremly good reviews are surfacing the doubters have not recanted...Simply faded away to attack another area.<<<

If you want me to bring over my review of Space from LP I'll be happy to oblige...

 

[HB2K]

Just a quick post before hitting the sack...

I don't remember where I read it (I think it was Hill, but I could be wrong), but I remember reading a history regarding New Orleans Square and the whole Pirates Galley / Pirates of the Carribean attraction.

From what I remember Pirates was supposed to be a walk through attraction until Walt put the kibosh on it. From this point on I believe the attraction was mothballed until the boat system was developed. Since the foundation for the attraction had been poured certain elements could not be changed.

One of the elements I remember reading about was the queue. Marc Davis did what he could with what was there, but in general it wasn't anything to write home about (I've never been to DL*)

Then once MK opens in Florida without Pirates and the public begins berating guest relations about it, a decision was made to bring Pirates East. I remember reading that Davis was excited about the opportunity to build the attraction right and from the ground up.

Is it better than DL's version? I couldn't honestly tell you, but I posted on what I remember reading about the attraction. Maybe it's wrong.

Also, I've always been told that the WDW version of Splash Mtn. is much more detailed and better than the DL version.

From what I've been told I agree with you Scoop. I just had the timelines wrong.

I was trying to remember Hill's history lesson on it and I remember the story going as Tony Baxter coming up with the idea for DL....but I'm working with little sleep lately so I could once again be wrong...and I'm starting to remember that the DL project got shelved but was reborn when Ei$ner's son saw it and they put in WDW.....so the lesson?

I'm a sleep deprived idiot.

Sorry for my last post....certain points appear to be wrong. I'll admit them

* To be honest I think this is one of the reasons I hate DCA. I really wanted a Disney alternative to WDW...and when I heard of the plans to expand Anahiem I was tenatively excited about it....but the finished product just can't convince me to go out there....

 

[Another Voice]

"As proof I offer the huge initial resistence to 'M:S', some even guranteed it would be scaled back to 'nothing'. "

Oh - you mean they actually went ahead and programmed the joysticks to control the cabin (as in the original plan) and for a different show to happen if you didn't push the button correctly (as in the original plan) or the extensive themed interior of the spinner chamber (as in the original plan) or the Mars Spaceport post show (as in the original plan).

My, things are looking up.


As for Califorina Adventure - pave it over. You are not going to get any more locals showing up for yet another knock-off cheap mini-coaster. Disney knows it, they just don't care.

 

[HorizonsFan]

How many finished attractions actually match the original plan?

 

[Cratster]

i think that the six flag type rides are really popular to the public right now. take for example epcot. that park's attendance is fading fast. people want thrill rides and if disney want to compete they have to rebrand that way. the only ride for example at epcot is test track which in my opinion is a six flags type ride. i don't think that it is a bad idea at all. the attendance will probably go back up.

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

Spectro is #1...

From my recent Back Stage Magic Tour Guide James

"RnRC is an off the shelf ride system, anyone can buy one"

The quote was in refrance to what makes Disney Disney. Mainly the Disney Characters and the branding they bring.

It's not clear which way you intended this... so I might be agreeing with you, but I just wanted to say that I think "renting AeroSmith" is a poor example of "what makes Disney Disney."

I enjoy a ride on RnRC as much as the next guy, but it's not extraordinary coaster on any scale, save perhaps that of "inside or outside."

Adding these clones to DCA will likely redistribute some population across the Disneyland resort, and that might be enough to justify their expense at some level, but I can't understand how anyone would expect to start attracting a new "thrill seeking" audience with them.

 

[d-r]

Originally posted by Another Voice
"As proof I offer the huge initial resistence to 'M:S', some even guranteed it would be scaled back to 'nothing'. "

Oh - you mean they actually went ahead and programmed the joysticks to control the cabin (as in the original plan) and for a different show to happen if you didn't push the button correctly (as in the original plan) or the extensive themed interior of the spinner chamber (as in the original plan) or the Mars Spaceport post show (as in the original plan).

My, things are looking up.

AV..... it is looking up, isn't it?

I mean, remember back when they were making Aladdin's carpet ride in Magic Kingdom. This was a little over two years ago. We knew they would be coming out with dinorama's triceritop spinner in a year, and everyone was joking about all the spinners they were putting in. That there hadn't been any attractions to "wow and amaze" and gcurling said that space was coming. This was two years ago an we didn't know much about it - it was still vague, and you said:

"gcurling - you are aware, aren't you, that 'Mission:Space" is a spinner."

So, yeah, things sure are looking up from that!

http://disboards.com/showthread.php...ge=15&highlight= alladin carpet&pagenumber=1

(what is funny on here is that Larworth says - two years ago - that tot and rnrc are coming to dca).

In this thread you said there would be no pre-show:

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=318850&highlight=+mission++space

In this thread you argue that it will be a poorly themed thrill ride only:

http://disboards.com/showthread.php...age=15&highlight= mission space&pagenumber=5

you and scoop went around and round arguing about mission:space.

AV - will your glass every be 1/2 full on mission:space? What I mean is, from all reports it sounds like it is better than you thought it would be, but each time you keep finding something to be wrong with it. The way you are playing it, it can NEVER succeed, there will always be something that it wasn't. I mean, we all know that with any project there will be ideas that are abandoned. Surely it sounds better than you have projected it to be in the past. I don't know how good it is, I haven't been there since it has been open - AV, when was the last time you were in Florida?

DR

 

[crusader]

I'm sure they care about DCA - they just don't want to expend major capital to bring it to where it needs to be right now. They certainly can fix this park. Paving it over is a bit extreme but very comical as always.

The reason I see the shift in marketing as a great move is because of what DCA represents which is more in line with the other parks in the area. The main reason it is viewed as crap is because the rides are too mediocre. If they bring in one or two big guns and get that coveted thrill seekers endorsement you cannot convince me that we won't see a dramatic turnaround in attendance.

I also agree that RnRC and ToT are not big enough to drive the competition, but they certainly are great improvements and easy to accomodate so it makes sense that they are being added.