So just why is Disney raising ticket prices so early

[Donut23]

It's simple....they raised prices because they can. It's called greed.

Disney can pass off declines in attendance with the excuse of US. Look at DL - attendance up. I bet DCA's World of Color has something to do with it!!!!

Until they can no longer come up with excuses and attendance continues to be flat or drops, they will continue to raise prices.


DH and I are VERY lucky - DH is a castmember. I cannot remember a Disney trip where we did not discuss the high cost of tickets and worry about people being priced out of their beloved WDW.

We take our friends through the gates with DH's gate pass.....wish we could do that for others.

SIGH.....our Disney plans would be completely different if we had to pay for park tickets.

 

[mom2rtk]

I think the bottom line for most is that Disney is behaving like a company in the midst of a boom economy.

For many folks, the trip to Disney represents their one big escape from the reality of inflation, high unemployment and an uncertain future for the nation's economy. And while those who can afford Disney are typically not PART of the unemployed, that does not mean they don't live their lives under a cloud of wondering if they will be soon if things don't pick up.

 

[TisBit]

Instead of focusing on the annual price increase, take a moment to put the 2011 Disney price increase in the context of the past decade. Between 2000 and 2011, a single day base ticket has increased by 46%, an annual pass by 38%. In that same span of time, median household income in the US has risen as well – by around 16%. Somehow, doing the math, it seems that theme park prices are far outstripping the extra income of guests, particularly when the rising costs of food, fuel, and day to day living are figured into the equation. (You can see the breakdown of the numbers here)

Yes, but the costs have increased for the amusement parks as well. Look at the costs of fuel, electricity, etc. Just because salaries are not keeping pace, does not mean that expenses are not keeping pace. The math is not simple and honestly profits have fallen at Disney since 2000. The impacts of 9/11 and the recession have killed WDW profits in comparison.

On this point -

Again, I am not an apologist blinded by the mouse -

But this idea that Disney is 100% about profit is ridiculous to me.

Build a good product, invest fully in your mission of entertaining families, do not lose sight of the founder's principles, do not comprimise artistic vision, THEN charge a fair price and profits will come.

Do people think the Imagineers building EE or designing the Tree of Life or animating Rapunzel do not give a crap if the end user is not just entertained, but actually blown away by the resulting product? Of course they care!

You are confusing a businesses core beliefs with their financial goals. Yes, Disney has set standards that they want to keep, but no one (even Walt in his day) would bankrupt the company to achieve that goal. Since Disney began there have always been detractors that feel they put the profit margin in front of "fairness". The hoops and money that Walt went through to buy up the land for WDW really upset a ton of people and I would bet in todays world would have sparked an investigation into unfair business practices. The land owners that sold the land felt they were unjustly compensated and maybe partially correct, but Walt knew he had to buy the land cheap and went to an extreme to do it. WDW has not changed in its business practices as much as some want to believe.

As for the Imagineers...yes, you better believe they balance the costs/financials against the guest experience. No one is given a blank check....no one. The key is to ensure tha tyou get the best experience for the buck and often times things are taken down a notch because it just isn't worth the expense to put that one extra "wow" factor in.

 

[WDSearcher]

It's simple....they raised prices because they can. It's called greed.

Disney can pass off declines in attendance with the excuse of US. Look at DL - attendance up. I bet DCA's World of Color has something to do with it!!!!

Until they can no longer come up with excuses and attendance continues to be flat or drops, they will continue to raise prices.


DH and I are VERY lucky - DH is a castmember. I cannot remember a Disney trip where we did not discuss the high cost of tickets and worry about people being priced out of their beloved WDW.

We take our friends through the gates with DH's gate pass.....wish we could do that for others.

SIGH.....our Disney plans would be completely different if we had to pay for park tickets.

Then again ... if Disney lowered all its prices and took in less profit, whose to say that your DH's job wouldn't end up on the chopping block? I know an awful lot of people who have lost jobs throughout the years because Disney's profit margin wasn't what it needed to be to satisfy the shareholders and the markets. And really ... how far down would prices have to go so that people aren't "priced out of their beloved WDW"? If Disney cut ticket prices to $25 and gave away parking for free there would still be people who couldn't afford it.

With Universal currently at $82 for a one day / one park ticket, SeaWorld at $72 per day, and Busch Gardens at $85 per day, what would you consider a "fair price" for a one day ticket to WDW? What ticket price would make WDW not greedy?

 

[phamton]

Well, of course attendance spiked at Universal. They added a great big new thing. And it's the first great big new thing they've added in a long time. Most people would expect that kind of a spike. The big thing is what will happen over time. If, every year for the next three or four years, WWoHP causes another +30% spike, then WDW worries. If, however, the next few years bring progressively smaller increases, then there's far less to worry about.

I think Disney may worry because more people are venturing off property for at least part of their trip.

Because even though IOA grew by a huge margin, every other domestic Disney park -- including DCA, which has been under construction and kind of only half open all year -- still posts higher annual attendance. MK sees three times the people IOA sees; Epcot almost twice. A year or two of abnormally high IOA attendance doesn't mean anything in that context.

Every year people post here on the DisBoards bragging about the increases in attendance at WDW parks and pointing out how other parks, such as Universal, did not have as dramatic of an increase, and this, somehow proves their point on how inferior the other parks are. So now that Islands of Adventure and Universal have increased attendance, it is glossed over as no big deal. Well, I, for one, think it is a major big deal and worth bragging about but YMMV.

And really ... Universal's price "continues to climb" as well. It's only a couple of bucks behind WDW for a one-day / one-park ticket, and I imagine it won't be long before Universal decides to raise it's price to match Disney's.

I imgaine they will raise prices. All of the parks do soon after Disney does.

At which point no one will be upset with Universal -- they'll still blame Disney for "starting it" and they'll say that Universal is just being "competitive".

Do you not read these boards? People complain about prices being raised all the time on the Universal forums. There was a price increase on AP renewals and tons of people were complaining just recently.

And really ... they're raising their prices based solely on the appeal and artistry of WWoHP, because they have not done a darn thing to refresh any other part of IOA. They're hoping that people come to see Harry Potter and are so amazed that they totally don't notice how run down everything else is.

Run down? Obviously I'm not seeing this. There are areas in all of the Orlando parks that could use a little paint but I honestly think all of them are doing a great job maintaining the looks of the parks, both WDW, Universal, and Seaworld.

 

[brunette8706]

Yes, but the costs have increased for the amusement parks as well. Look at the costs of fuel, electricity, etc. Just because salaries are not keeping pace, does not mean that expenses are not keeping pace. The math is not simple and honestly profits have fallen at Disney since 2000. The impacts of 9/11 and the recession have killed WDW profits in comparison.

You are confusing a businesses core beliefs with their financial goals. Yes, Disney has set standards that they want to keep, but no one (even Walt in his day) would bankrupt the company to achieve that goal. Since Disney began there have always been detractors that feel they put the profit margin in front of "fairness". The hoops and money that Walt went through to buy up the land for WDW really upset a ton of people and I would bet in todays world would have sparked an investigation into unfair business practices. The land owners that sold the land felt they were unjustly compensated and maybe partially correct, but Walt knew he had to buy the land cheap and went to an extreme to do it. WDW has not changed in its business practices as much as some want to believe.

As for the Imagineers...yes, you better believe they balance the costs/financials against the guest experience. No one is given a blank check....no one. The key is to ensure tha tyou get the best experience for the buck and often times things are taken down a notch because it just isn't worth the expense to put that one extra "wow" factor in.

*
In my humble opinion Disney profits have not fallen since 2000. Further, September 11, 2011 should not even be in your equation because it's simply not true. Disney has made a record breaking 54 percent record project in the last 3 months of 2010. Disney said it made $1.3 billion for the three months that ended Jan. 1, the first quarter in the company's fiscal year, up from $844 million a year earlier. Companywide revenue rose 10 percent to $10.7 billion.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...hip-disney-world-attendance-walt-disney-parks

 

[brunette8706]

Yes, but the costs have increased for the amusement parks as well. Look at the costs of fuel, electricity, etc. Just because salaries are not keeping pace, does not mean that expenses are not keeping pace. The math is not simple and honestly profits have fallen at Disney since 2000. The impacts of 9/11 and the recession have killed WDW profits in comparison.



You are confusing a businesses core beliefs with their financial goals. Yes, Disney has set standards that they want to keep, but no one (even Walt in his day) would bankrupt the company to achieve that goal. Since Disney began there have always been detractors that feel they put the profit margin in front of "fairness". The hoops and money that Walt went through to buy up the land for WDW really upset a ton of people and I would bet in todays world would have sparked an investigation into unfair business practices. The land owners that sold the land felt they were unjustly compensated and maybe partially correct, but Walt knew he had to buy the land cheap and went to an extreme to do it. WDW has not changed in its business practices as much as some want to believe.

As for the Imagineers...yes, you better believe they balance the costs/financials against the guest experience. No one is given a blank check....no one. The key is to ensure tha tyou get the best experience for the buck and often times things are taken down a notch because it just isn't worth the expense to put that one extra "wow" factor in.

*
Can you elaborate on that please? I'm not quite sure what you are referring to. thanks!

 

[GadgetRick]

On this point -

Again, I am not an apologist blinded by the mouse -

But this idea that Disney is 100% about profit is ridiculous to me.

Build a good product, invest fully in your mission of entertaining families, do not lose sight of the founder's principles, do not comprimise artistic vision, THEN charge a fair price and profits will come.

Do people think the Imagineers building EE or designing the Tree of Life or animating Rapunzel do not give a crap if the end user is not just entertained, but actually blown away by the resulting product? Of course they care!

Sorry but I don't agree. Disney is a for profit company...period. The company, overall, could care less whether you or I felt, "loved," at Disney as long as we spent money there. The Imagineers, etc. are not part of this equation. They are the workers who don't make the business decisions. I'm sure they care but they're not part of the problem (or the solution).

If anyone thinks Disney gives a rat's butt about us, think again. They're about the dollar...and that's not a bad thing. It is what it is and that's the way our economy is built. For better or worse.

 

[rt2dz]

Sorry but I don't agree. Disney is a for profit company...period. The company, overall, could care less whether you or I felt, "loved," at Disney as long as we spent money there. The Imagineers, etc. are not part of this equation. They are the workers who don't make the business decisions. I'm sure they care but they're not part of the problem (or the solution).

If anyone thinks Disney gives a rat's butt about us, think again. They're about the dollar...and that's not a bad thing. It is what it is and that's the way our economy is built. For better or worse.

Ah, but that is the heart of the question. What makes people spend money there? Why do people come? Why do people keep coming? Do they really think without repeat business they can survive long term?

Just questions...

 

[brunette8706]

Sorry but I don't agree. Disney is a for profit company...period. The company, overall, could care less whether you or I felt, "loved," at Disney as long as we spent money there. The Imagineers, etc. are not part of this equation. They are the workers who don't make the business decisions. I'm sure they care but they're not part of the problem (or the solution).

If anyone thinks Disney gives a rat's butt about us, think again. They're about the dollar...and that's not a bad thing. It is what it is and that's the way our economy is built. For better or worse.

*
Hi! I agree with your post. But the bolded part, don't you think the more that they raise prices and suffice quality, I would suspect it would be a huge risk factor. This is in reference to the Dining, hotels heck even the Grand Floridian had some bad rooms, and so has the Polynesian. Granted the hotels are beautiful but they do charge a premium price for a non premium room. Also, the stroller rentals, parking, and tickets, I could go on and on. People are not going as much as they did a few years back, that's why they are offering the FREE dining 12 months out of the year.

 

[WDSearcher]

I think Disney may worry because more people are venturing off property for at least part of their trip.

But if Disney has that factored in -- which I suspect they have, realizing the popularity of the Harry Potter franchise -- then they're likely not nearly as worried as you think. They're not stupid -- they knew WWoHP would be popular. And even if they didn't realize HOW popular, it's likely they adjusted those expectations after Universal hit it out of the park on opening weekend. Disney knew they'd take a hit. However .... WWoHP is probably bringing a bunch of people to Central Florida who would not have made the trip normally. They're coming to see Harry Potter, but since they're here, they may well choose to spend a day or two checking out Disney. Those are days that Disney may have never had without WWoHP -- so I'm thinking it evens out to a certain extent.

Every year people post here on the DisBoards bragging about the increases in attendance at WDW parks and pointing out how other parks, such as Universal, did not have as dramatic of an increase, and this, somehow proves their point on how inferior the other parks are. So now that Islands of Adventure and Universal have increased attendance, it is glossed over as no big deal. Well, I, for one, think it is a major big deal and worth bragging about but YMMV.

I don't think that people are bragging about the increases to say how "inferior" the other parks are. Most people here who have been to Universal will totally give Universal its due for having great coasters, a wonderful front-of-line policy for onsite visitors, and an outstanding Harry Potter area, among other things. They brag about Disney attendance simply to brag about Disney attendance, just as you're bragging about Universal's. And really, I don't know that I'd expect to see a whole lot of people on this board going on and on about Universal simply because these topics are Disney-based.

I imgaine they will raise prices. All of the parks do soon after Disney does.

Although there have been several cases in the past decade when SeaWorld or Universal raised first, followed by Disney. Disney is not always the first park to raise prices.

Do you not read these boards? People complain about prices being raised all the time on the Universal forums. There was a price increase on AP renewals and tons of people were complaining just recently. Run down? Obviously I'm not seeing this. There are areas in all of the Orlando parks that could use a little paint but I honestly think all of them are doing a great job maintaining the looks of the parks, both WDW, Universal, and Seaworld.

I haven't read the Universal boards so no ... I haven't seen the complaints. I just see the comparisons here about how Universal isn't nearly as greedy and how they don't raise their prices as much, etc.

And run down? IMO, Yes. Spend a few hours at WWoHP and then walk into Seuss Landing. Everything looks old in comparison. Now ... I expect some of it to look older simply because it is. But compare how it looks now to any photo of how it looked when that area opened. The colors are faded, signs are washed out, it doesn't have that bright, neon, Seussian look it used to have. Superhero Island? Yikes. Again ... my opinion. Jurassic Park still looks great. Other areas are holding up well. But you can tell they haven't invested much at all in the other lands. All their eggs, right now, seem to be in Harry Potter's basket.

 

[WDSearcher]

Sorry but I don't agree. Disney is a for profit company...period. The company, overall, could care less whether you or I felt, "loved," at Disney as long as we spent money there. The Imagineers, etc. are not part of this equation. They are the workers who don't make the business decisions. I'm sure they care but they're not part of the problem (or the solution).

If anyone thinks Disney gives a rat's butt about us, think again. They're about the dollar...and that's not a bad thing. It is what it is and that's the way our economy is built. For better or worse.

Oh come on. That's a bit simplistic, don't you think? Of course they're a "for profit" company, but they are also very aware of what their product is and why people purchase it. If they truly did not give a rat's butt about their customers, then they'd just toss up a new off-the-shelf looping roller coaster every year because that would bring people in. They'd shoot off generic fireworks over the castle -- why develop a story and music around it? People would be awed simply by a ton of fireworks over a castle. Why spend the extra time and money to do more?

If they didn't care about the people who come to the parks, why spend all that time training Character performers? Seriously ... just put some people in costumes and have them stand there. All people really want is a photo anyway. Who cares if Mickey and Pluto and Stitch and Donald have different personalities and behave differently? Who cares if Mickey's signature is the same no matter when or where you meet him? Why bother? Who cares if the characters interact with your kids?

If you don't give a rat's butt, why put all that thought into DAK? Everest, schmeverest. Drop in a steel coaster and rip out the queue. Drop in some food and merch locations and call it a day. Who cares if the guest has anything at all to look at or be entertained by while they're waiting. Just put in some rope lines and leave it at that. Why develop something like FoLK or Nemo? You could certainly put butts in seats in those venues with a lot less. Why theme all the resorts differently? Hire Hilton to build 23 hotels and pay you rent for the land. Tons easier and a lot cheaper too.

 

[TisBit]

*
In my humble opinion Disney profits have not fallen since 2000. Further, September 11, 2011 should not even be in your equation because it's simply not true. Disney has made a record breaking 54 percent record project in the last 3 months of 2010. Disney said it made $1.3 billion for the three months that ended Jan. 1, the first quarter in the company's fiscal year, up from $844 million a year earlier. Companywide revenue rose 10 percent to $10.7 billion.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...hip-disney-world-attendance-walt-disney-parks

September 11 has a ton to do with it....travel dropped dramatically, the parks were empty and WDW took a huge hit. Expansions and capital improvements were abandoned (some midway through)!

Yes, but what was the revenue 10 years ago. You also have to look that they made those profits with a LOT of cuts last year to management, food quality and other expenses. It was big news because it was unexpected and they had to prepare for the quarter to not be that good.

*
Can you elaborate on that please? I'm not quite sure what you are referring to. thanks!

We will take Everest for example. When the ride Yeti malfunctioned they chose to operate it in a reduced capacity and not do "whatever it takes" to wow the people. They sacrificed because the cost was just too much. FLE has already been modified, some because of budget, some because of feedback...they cannot always just look at the wow factor when designing the parks.

 

[flicx]

Heres a basic business strategy that disney should figure out.If you don't have people in the parks they can't spend money.Hence when you keep jacking up the prices in bad economic times less people will go!I personally think upper management needs to be cleared out.

 

[LilyWDW]

Heres a basic business strategy that disney should figure out.If you don't have people in the parks they can't spend money.Hence when you keep jacking up the prices in bad economic times less people will go!I personally think upper management needs to be cleared out.

Ticket sales are actually up the first two quarters of the year compared to last year... so the tickets are selling.

 

[OhioDisneyDad]

WDW raising prices helped me to decide what to do for our Xmas vacation. We're going to Universal. Nicer hotel, unlimited express pass, early entrance to WWOHP, better quality restaurants. Not planning on going back to WDW for a while.

 

[flicx]

Ticket sales are actually up the first two quarters of the year compared to last year... so the tickets are selling.

Seems to me attendance is down.That is as good a barometer as any.

 

[jayandstacey]

That is 4% and 6% per annum. So where is this giant, horrible price increase you all keep talking about? That is above inflation a little bit, but off the top of my head here is what has been added in those 10 years:

Expedition Everest
Toy Story Mania
Livng Seas refurb and new rides
Jedi Training Academy and SWWs
Star Tours refurb
KP Adventure

I think the *****ing about prices is more a referendum on the economy: high real inflation, low wage increases, high unemployment, depressed asset prices (stocks, homes) = stagflation = any price increases hurt.

Because if one's wages increased 4% to 6% per annum than one wouldn't even feel the ticket price increase.

So you quoted my post when asking about the giant horrible increase in prices. I didn't say that - didn't say it was giant and didn't say it was horrible, rather I said it was a continuous march toward finding the equilibrium.

And I just checked my own finances, and have been fortunate enough to have a 24% annual compounded wage increases over the last 10 years. And while I don't feel this single increase (ie, going from, say, $85 per day to $91 dollars per day isn't impactful)...we did just cancel a trip scheduled (and booked) for this year as it just didn't seem worth it anymore upon re-evaluation.

 

[jayandstacey]

On this point -

Again, I am not an apologist blinded by the mouse -

But this idea that Disney is 100% about profit is ridiculous to me.

Build a good product, invest fully in your mission of entertaining families, do not lose sight of the founder's principles, do not comprimise artistic vision, THEN charge a fair price and profits will come.

Do people think the Imagineers building EE or designing the Tree of Life or animating Rapunzel do not give a crap if the end user is not just entertained, but actually blown away by the resulting product? Of course they care!

Specific people within Disney will not be paid to be 'profitable' - some are there to clean, some to spend money buying supplies, etc.

But Disney exists solely to make a profit for its owners. That's it. If it didn't, it would close down, sooner or later.

So yes, you're right in that they build a good product and all that....but if the profit never comes, then they all go look for other jobs.

 

[jayandstacey]

Oh come on. That's a bit simplistic, don't you think? Of course they're a "for profit" company, but they are also very aware of what their product is and why people purchase it. If they truly did not give a rat's butt about their customers, then they'd just toss up a new off-the-shelf looping roller coaster every year because that would bring people in. They'd shoot off generic fireworks over the castle -- why develop a story and music around it? People would be awed simply by a ton of fireworks over a castle. Why spend the extra time and money to do more?

If they didn't care about the people who come to the parks, why spend all that time training Character performers? Seriously ... just put some people in costumes and have them stand there. All people really want is a photo anyway. Who cares if Mickey and Pluto and Stitch and Donald have different personalities and behave differently? Who cares if Mickey's signature is the same no matter when or where you meet him? Why bother? Who cares if the characters interact with your kids?

If you don't give a rat's butt, why put all that thought into DAK? Everest, schmeverest. Drop in a steel coaster and rip out the queue. Drop in some food and merch locations and call it a day. Who cares if the guest has anything at all to look at or be entertained by while they're waiting. Just put in some rope lines and leave it at that. Why develop something like FoLK or Nemo? You could certainly put butts in seats in those venues with a lot less. Why theme all the resorts differently? Hire Hilton to build 23 hotels and pay you rent for the land. Tons easier and a lot cheaper too.

All these things are done to ensure that people keep coming back and the profits keep rolling in. Being a for-profit company doesn't mean it has to be cheap product - think Mercedes or other such premium brands. They can maintain higher-than-average margins as they offer higher-than-average quality. But make no mistake:

If the profits disappeared, so would the offering.

Throwing up steel coasters would be a disaster as then Disney becomes just like all the other amusement parks people fly over on their way to Disney - and such, Disney would experience a double whammy- less attendance (as there's no longer a need to fly to FLA) and less pricing power as those that still come would expect the prices to be inline with other such parks.

So Disney doesn't do that.

Saying that Disney exists for Profit doesn't mean that Disney doesn't try to make magic happen, doesn't care for guests and doesn't occasionally do something that seems non-profitable. But just like comps in a casino - they are ALL designed to draw you back, ensure you perceive value, and ensure you keep that profit ROLLING in.