So just why is Disney raising ticket prices so early

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Agree with GadgetRick.

What matters to Disney is how much total profit is made. That total is over your entire visit.

In the early decades, the total profit went up as Disney captured more and more days. Hotels were built, parks added - and so prices didn't need to rise too much, as a $300 trip became a $1000 trip became a $3000 trip (inflation adjusted, of course.)

Over the last decade, Disney's not been able to expand the days, or the income sources. They've captured your food, lodging and entertainment expenses, even to some degree your travel expenses. And they've pushed the average stay to the maximum, probably about 6 days.

So they can only increase profit by increasing prices or increasing capacity. Increasing capacity costs LOTS of $$$. They've done a little of that with the cruise ships. Raising prices, OTOH, is easy.

So they continue the decade-long march to increase prices until they find the break point, then go back and begin to increase capacity again. We may never see the day when WDW has a significant expansion to their capacity - they're to the point where even a whole 'nother theme park only adds maybe 15-20% to the WDW capacity.

So raising prices it is - until some of us volunteer to not show up.

I am no Disney apologist, but I just don't get these posts.

It's already been posted that single parks admission has gone from $48 to $85 in 10 years and 5 day hoppers from $206 to $306.

That is 4% and 6% per annum. So where is this giant, horrible price increase you all keep talking about? That is above inflation a little bit, but off the top of my head here is what has been added in those 10 years:

Expedition Everest
Toy Story Mania
Livng Seas refurb and new rides
Jedi Training Academy and SWWs
Star Tours refurb
KP Adventure

I think the *****ing about prices is more a referendum on the economy: high real inflation, low wage increases, high unemployment, depressed asset prices (stocks, homes) = stagflation = any price increases hurt.

Because if one's wages increased 4% to 6% per annum than one wouldn't even feel the ticket price increase.

 

[brunette8706]

A huge hello to you Brunette. By the way, I got a pm from Pirate Jeff!!!!

I agree with you. This is why I did not go this year. We chose Hawaii, and Pigeon Forge this year. While I can afford WDW, I'm not finding the value in it for my money. I would never pay 50k for a Chevy Malibu and that is what WDW is beginning to do; charge BMW prices for a Chevrolet.

*
Hi ya Goofy4PREZ! Hope you're doing GREAT! Sounds like it, since you are in Hawaii! Sounds like a grand time! Did you get back to Pirate Jeff, he's always asking if I talked to you. LOL! I too like your BMW analogy!

Have a great time!
Brunette

 

[TisBit]

As for the original quesiton of why they are raising prices early....to keep people on their toes. If they increased prices every year at the same time, frequent visitors will just budget to buy at the last minute every year. By changing it up, people are caught off guard and pay the increased price. No tricks or schemes, just a way to keep the public on their toes.

I agree 100% that Disney is all about profit just like most other companies. I wouldn't expect anything else. However, I don't care about their desire for profit any more than they care about my finances. I only care about whether what they offer seems worth the cost.

This is what most people don't understand. WDW cannot ever lose sight of the profit margin or they will cease to exist. No company will ever survive by trying to just break even...they have to have funds for capital improvements, decreased bookings, etc.

Personally for me, as a late bloomer to WDW, I am really at the point that I fail to find WDW a must do vacation destination. Truthfully this has nothing to do with affordability, but instead perceived value for what I'm getting for my money.

For some of you out there you have been Disney fans for many years; I have only joined the dance in the last few years. I am not at the point where I look in through rose colored glasses. WDW has to be concerned that they are offering family fun at their parks, that is their business and the product they sell. However, I think the almighty $$$ has blinded the decision makers and they are loosing the balance between profit and the public consumer.

People that are Disney fans are not always blinded by the Mouse. There are many many people that understand that WDW is a business based on profit. As you said, they return for our money must be there....but, there is a nostalgia point that is made with millions of people around the world. Going back to a place that has changed only a little from their childhood. Sure, the rides might have changed some and parks added, but you walk into the MK and you have the same view as you did 40 years ago.

As others have said, the guests of WDW will determine what is reasonable and what isn't. WDW has stayed up on this and changed things over the last 40 years to keep up with this supply and demand. I am sure those changes haven't stopped and will continue.

But, as you said, you are new to WDW vacations and maybe you haven't felt as tied to it as some other people are. It is easier for you to walk away if you haven't really come to love WDW for it is (profit margin and all). My family do not do dining plans and other things that are great profit margins for the company, because we don't need to and can save money other ways. But, we might splurge in other areas or figure out where we don't mind giving back to the mouse.

 

[WDSearcher]

Ticket increases are one thing, but Disney is taking it to another level.

Daily 1 park ticket

2001 - $48.00
2011 - $85.00

Forget about all the other cost increases they have added. From hotel rooms to food.

5 day park hopper

2001 - $206.00
2011 - $306.00

For me I don't care all that much, we don't go as much as we used to and the value for us just isn't there anymore like it used to be.

But my guess is that it's not just the ticket price that has affected your decision or the "value" of the vacation. If the ticket price never went above $48 but everything else continued to go up as it has, you still may not be making as many trips. It costs more to travel (whether you drive or fly). Other items you buy (insurance, clothing, rent / mortgage, food, etc) are also more expensive, leaving less of your budget for travel. And perhaps your salary / investments have not kept pace with inflation. Plus, if ticket prices were suddenly $48 for a one-day ticket, the parks would be PACKED, which would also make it less of a value. That threshold is different for everyone.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

People that are Disney fans are not always blinded by the Mouse. There are many many people that understand that WDW is a business based on profit. .

On this point -

Again, I am not an apologist blinded by the mouse -

But this idea that Disney is 100% about profit is ridiculous to me.

Build a good product, invest fully in your mission of entertaining families, do not lose sight of the founder's principles, do not comprimise artistic vision, THEN charge a fair price and profits will come.

Do people think the Imagineers building EE or designing the Tree of Life or animating Rapunzel do not give a crap if the end user is not just entertained, but actually blown away by the resulting product? Of course they care!

 

[brunette8706]

On this point -

Again, I am not an apologist blinded by the mouse -

But this idea that Disney is 100% about profit is ridiculous to me.

Build a good product, invest fully in your mission of entertaining families, do not lose sight of the founder's principles, do not comprimise artistic vision, THEN charge a fair price and profits will come.

Do people think the Imagineers building EE or designing the Tree of Life or animating Rapunzel do not give a crap if the end user is not just entertained, but actually blown away by the resulting product? Of course they care!

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EXCELLENT POST!

 

[Planogirl]

But my guess is that it's not just the ticket price that has affected your decision or the "value" of the vacation. If the ticket price never went above $48 but everything else continued to go up as it has, you still may not be making as many trips. It costs more to travel (whether you drive or fly). Other items you buy (insurance, clothing, rent / mortgage, food, etc) are also more expensive, leaving less of your budget for travel. And perhaps your salary / investments have not kept pace with inflation. Plus, if ticket prices were suddenly $48 for a one-day ticket, the parks would be PACKED, which would also make it less of a value. That threshold is different for everyone.

I agree with your post. It isn't just ticket prices, it's all of it. And no, salaries have not increased at the same rate and that does hurt.

You also have to keep in mind that some of us don't see the value being as great at it once was either. Prices go up and value goes down - it all adds up to a disturbing trend to some of us.

 

[NancyIL]

As for the original quesiton of why they are raising prices early....to keep people on their toes. If they increased prices every year at the same time, frequent visitors will just budget to buy at the last minute every year. By changing it up, people are caught off guard and pay the increased price. No tricks or schemes, just a way to keep the public on their toes.

Nope - I don't think they are trying to keep people on their toes! They increased ticket prices on June 12, 2011 because that's the day they started booking 2012 resort packages, and they needed the 2012 ticket prices.

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

Plus, if ticket prices were suddenly $48 for a one-day ticket, the parks would be PACKED, which would also make it less of a value. That threshold is different for everyone.

Good point! I had not thought of this.

 

[WDSearcher]

I agree with your post. It isn't just ticket prices, it's all of it. And no, salaries have not increased at the same rate and that does hurt.

You also have to keep in mind that some of us don't see the value being as great at it once was either. Prices go up and value goes down - it all adds up to a disturbing trend to some of us.

Certainly it does. But prices are quantitative. A dollar is a dollar. "Value" is qualitative. What you see as declining, I may see as just fine and dandy. Neither one of us is wrong when it comes to assessing value. We just look at it differently.

 

[LilyWDW]

On this point -

Again, I am not an apologist blinded by the mouse -

But this idea that Disney is 100% about profit is ridiculous to me.

Build a good product, invest fully in your mission of entertaining families, do not lose sight of the founder's principles, do not comprimise artistic vision, THEN charge a fair price and profits will come.

Do people think the Imagineers building EE or designing the Tree of Life or animating Rapunzel do not give a crap if the end user is not just entertained, but actually blown away by the resulting product? Of course they care!

Imagineers don't really deal with deciding if prices are to increase. They are a totally different aspect of the company, so I have no idea why this would be an argument.

Different departments have different goals. The imagineers are worried about the more creative aspects of the company. The accountants are worried about the books. All this information is then looked at (as in can they afford an expansion or new ride?) before decisions are made.

So yes, it does come down to profit as a WHOLE. Imagineers don't get to just make whatever they want whenever they want. They have to wait for the a-okay from accounting to make sure the money is there to spend.

Nope - I don't think they are trying to keep people on their toes! They increased ticket prices on June 12, 2011 because that's the day they started booking 2012 resort packages, and they needed the 2012 ticket prices.

Bah, that's too simple! Not as fun to discuss!

 

[The_Alice]

I think what Disney fails to grasp here is that yes, the turnstiles may still be clicking along but how many of these folks visiting are saving up for that once in a lifetime trip? Are these guests who come several years in a row, or even multiple times a year?

Those are the numbers I would look at. Is raising the ticket price worth one shot with one family. Or if you kept the price at a reasonable amount could you get that same family back multiple times a decade? Decisions Decisions...

Of course, I am not the one in charge. But, I have to say that the price is getting to a point where we will leave off days, stay off property, refine our visits to be during value times, or in general cut back to make up for the loss. What this means overall is spend LESS of our money with the DIsney Company as a whole b/c of the up front cost of admission. I wonder how many other families will do the same? If the turnstiles are telling Park Mgmt that they have doubled attendance however the cash drawers along Main Street etc. aren't meting out those numbers then I would hope that would show short term gain long term loss.

 

[AJRitz]

I think what Disney fails to grasp here is that yes, the turnstiles may still be clicking along but how many of these folks visiting are saving up for that once in a lifetime trip? Are these guests who come several years in a row, or even multiple times a year?

Those are the numbers I would look at. Is raising the ticket price worth one shot with one family. Or if you kept the price at a reasonable amount could you get that same family back multiple times a decade? Decisions Decisions...

Of course, I am not the one in charge. But, I have to say that the price is getting to a point where we will leave off days, stay off property, refine our visits to be during value times, or in general cut back to make up for the loss. What this means overall is spend LESS of our money with the DIsney Company as a whole b/c of the up front cost of admission. I wonder how many other families will do the same? If the turnstiles are telling Park Mgmt that they have doubled attendance however the cash drawers along Main Street etc. aren't meting out those numbers then I would hope that would show short term gain long term loss.

Here's the thing though. Go through and check the actual numbers of what you're going to spend on your vacation. The impact of the ticket price increases on the overall vacation cost is actually fairly small. I think that, this year in particular, the primary function of the ticket price increases was to align the prices in a particular way. (I did a quick analysis of the increases on my blog here - http://disdads.com/archives/1638 - if you're interested).

Basically, the rate of increase was higher the longer you stay. Meanwhile, AP rates only increased about 5% (increase was higher for children and lower for adults). Goal - push people who stay a lot of days to buy APs instead of daily tickets. AP holders are more likely to take additional impulse trips and make multiple trips in order to extract "value" from their purchase. Second, the increase rates were higher across the board for children than for adults. They're bringing those prices closer together, likely in hopes of cutting down on the number of "9-year-old" 5th graders in the parks.

I also think it's no accident that they've increase kids prices faster than adult prices for the year in which Art of Animation will open. I think there's anticipation of pent-up demand for Disney World accomodations for larger families, and they might as well extract the maximum profit from the families who suddenly have a Value option for WDW accomodations.

 

[The_Alice]

Here's the thing though. Go through and check the actual numbers of what you're going to spend on your vacation. The impact of the ticket price increases on the overall vacation cost is actually fairly small. I think that, this year in particular, the primary function of the ticket price increases was to align the prices in a particular way. (I did a quick analysis of the increases on my blog here - http://disdads.com/archives/1638 - if you're interested).

Basically, the rate of increase was higher the longer you stay. Meanwhile, AP rates only increased about 5% (increase was higher for children and lower for adults). Goal - push people who stay a lot of days to buy APs instead of daily tickets. AP holders are more likely to take additional impulse trips and make multiple trips in order to extract "value" from their purchase. Second, the increase rates were higher across the board for children than for adults. They're bringing those prices closer together, likely in hopes of cutting down on the number of "9-year-old" 5th graders in the parks.

I also think it's no accident that they've increase kids prices faster than adult prices for the year in which Art of Animation will open. I think there's anticipation of pent-up demand for Disney World accomodations for larger families, and they might as well extract the maximum profit from the families who suddenly have a Value option for WDW accomodations.

Right, point is there will come a catalyst where the ticket price will start to effect how people travel to WDW. What that "golden number" is I am sure a great many executives want to know.

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

Basically, the rate of increase was higher the longer you stay. Meanwhile, AP rates only increased about 5% (increase was higher for children and lower for adults). Goal - push people who stay a lot of days to buy APs instead of daily tickets. AP holders are more likely to take additional impulse trips and make multiple trips in order to extract "value" from their purchase.

I think your analysis is spot on. I was planning on buying my family 10 day hopper + WP + no expire tickets for our trip next June with the mindset that we'd use them over our next three trips. APs don't work for us because we only go every few years. I know lots of people do the 10 day+WP+No Exp tickets instead of APs. There are whole threads on here devoted to this strategy.

The 10 day tickets I wanted were also cheaper than APs. Now however the price has gone up almost $100 for each ticket - $400 total for my family of four. It's not the deal it was before the price increase. I am now trying to decide if I bite the bullet and buy the tix from UT, a year in advance, while they still have them at the old price.

 

[NancyIL]

Bah, that's too simple! Not as fun to discuss!

The OP asked why Disney increased prices early, and I think the simple answer is the best.

Most others on here are discussing price increases in general. While I don't like ticket increases, either - so far I haven't been priced out. The cost of an annual pass went up $20 + tax, whereas the cost of a 10-day base ticket increased $30. I have been buying my discounted park tickets from Undercover Tourist, then using the ticket to get the current gate price of the ticket applied to the cost of upgrading to an AP. Airfares have gone up the past few years, yet I just paid $94 + tax each way on AirTran in October. I recall thinking that my $99 fare each way from Chicago to Tampa in 1982 was an excellent fare!

 

[phamton]

Good. As for the "product going up reasonably" -- it has, actually. It is going up at the same rate as comparable product.

• Before tax, it costs $85 for a one-day / one-park Disney ticket.
• One-day / one-park Universal ticket is $82, and my bet is that it will be at $85 before the summer is over.
• Seven days at Universal -- 7 days, 2 parks -- is $175
• Seven days at WDW with hopper -- 7 days, 4 parks -- is $322

So it costs less than twice a Universal seven-day pass to parkhop at Disney for seven days. Seems equitable to me. You're paying a little under twice as much for double the number of parks. YMMV

If it cost $85 for a day at Disney and $37.50 for a day at Universal then yes ... Disney would be overdoing it. But the parks are $2 apart. They're increasing at the same rate. Which to me, seems reasonable. It's clearly what the market will bear, or the parks would be empty.

I think it is unwise to raise prices at this point because last year attendance was down at WDW but up at Universal Studios/Islands of Adventure. Considering that the Harry Potter area was only open half of the year (June 18), I would not be surprised if the attendance was even higher for Universal for 2011. Disney may continue to lose attendance if their price continues to climb.

http://www.themeparkinsider.com/

Here is the US Top 20 for 2010:

Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom, 16.92 million, -1.5%
Disneyland, 15.98 million, +0.5%
Epcot, 10.83 million, -1.5%
Disney's Animal Kingdom, 9.69 million, +1.0%, up one position
Disney's Hollywood Studios, 9.60 million, -1.0%, down one position
Disney California Adventure, 6.28 million, +3.0%
Universal's Islands of Adventure, 5.95 million, +30.2%, up two positions
Universal Studios Florida, 5.93 million, +6.1%
SeaWorld Orlando, 5.10 million, -12.1%, down two positions
Universal Studios Hollywood, 5.04 million, +26.0%
Busch Gardens Tampa, 4.20 million, +2.4%, up one position
SeaWorld San Diego, 3.80 million, -9.5%, down one position
Knott's Berry Farm, 3.60 million, +8.0%
Canada's Wonderland, 3.38 million, +7.0%
Kings Island, 3.11 million, +3.7%
Cedar Point, 3.05 million, +3.7%
Hersheypark, 2.89 million, +3.0%, up one position
Busch Gardens Williamsburg, 2.80 million, -3.4%, down one position
Six Flags Great Adventure, 2.70 million, +2.5%
Six Flags Great America, 2.70 million, +10.2%

 

[brunette8706]

Instead of focusing on the annual price increase, take a moment to put the 2011 Disney price increase in the context of the past decade. Between 2000 and 2011, a single day base ticket has increased by 46%, an annual pass by 38%. In that same span of time, median household income in the US has risen as well – by around 16%. Somehow, doing the math, it seems that theme park prices are far outstripping the extra income of guests, particularly when the rising costs of food, fuel, and day to day living are figured into the equation. (You can see the breakdown of the numbers here)

Perhaps the answer lies in Disney pundit Jim Hill’s often repeated claims that Disney, and other theme parks, are increasingly seeking a wealthier clientele who want “exclusive experiences” – and are willing to pay for them. Perhaps theme parks aren’t pricing themselves out of business, they’re just pricing themselves into a new category of business, looking for the people who can afford multi-million dollar homes and hundred-dollar-an-hour experiences.

In the end, there is no definitive answer. People may complain about the ticket price hikes, but most will cut a few more things from the budget or re-schedule their trip to get a discount in order to make up the difference. The modern world does value entertainment, and although theme park ticket prices may seem to be skyrocketing, a statistical comparison to the rise in the price of gas over the past decade would no doubt make ticket increases look utterly trivial. Are theme parks pricing themselves out of reach of the parents and children who inspired Walt Disney? Only time will tell, but my deepest hope is that Disney will continue to provide a unique, truly magical experience to justify their admission price. For me, personally, I’m willing to pay the cost of admission as long as I can find magic and the “Disney touch,” but if that wonder begins to fade under economic cut backs for profit, I’m going to look at the budget a little more carefully. How about you?

http://www.yourhighwayinthesky.com/...-at-disney-ticket-price-increases-in-context/

 

[WDSearcher]

I think what Disney fails to grasp here is that yes, the turnstiles may still be clicking along but how many of these folks visiting are saving up for that once in a lifetime trip? Are these guests who come several years in a row, or even multiple times a year?

Those are the numbers I would look at. Is raising the ticket price worth one shot with one family. Or if you kept the price at a reasonable amount could you get that same family back multiple times a decade? Decisions Decisions...

Of course, I am not the one in charge. But, I have to say that the price is getting to a point where we will leave off days, stay off property, refine our visits to be during value times, or in general cut back to make up for the loss. What this means overall is spend LESS of our money with the DIsney Company as a whole b/c of the up front cost of admission. I wonder how many other families will do the same? If the turnstiles are telling Park Mgmt that they have doubled attendance however the cash drawers along Main Street etc. aren't meting out those numbers then I would hope that would show short term gain long term loss.

I would still wonder, though, how much of you spending less for a Disney vacation is due singly and specifically to the ticket price? If Disney had not raised it's prices for, say, the past three years, would you be spending significantly more at the parks? My guess is probably not. Because it's not just the ticket price, it's the cost of "a Disney vacation". And that includes everything from airfare (over which Disney has no control) to resort rates (over which they do). If a pricier plane ticket means fewer days at the park, that's not something you can attribute to Disney, KWIM?

When people here talk about spending X amount of dollars for "a Disney vacation", are they including what it costs to travel from where they are to Disney, or are they just including the costs once they arrive?

 

[WDSearcher]

I think it is unwise to raise prices at this point because last year attendance was down at WDW but up at Universal Studios/Islands of Adventure. Considering that the Harry Potter area was only open half of the year (June 18), I would not be surprised if the attendance was even higher for Universal for 2011. Disney may continue to lose attendance if their price continues to climb.

Well, of course attendance spiked at Universal. They added a great big new thing. And it's the first great big new thing they've added in a long time. Most people would expect that kind of a spike. The big thing is what will happen over time. If, every year for the next three or four years, WWoHP causes another +30% spike, then WDW worries. If, however, the next few years bring progressively smaller increases, then there's far less to worry about.

Because even though IOA grew by a huge margin, every other domestic Disney park -- including DCA, which has been under construction and kind of only half open all year -- still posts higher annual attendance. MK sees three times the people IOA sees; Epcot almost twice. A year or two of abnormally high IOA attendance doesn't mean anything in that context. And really ... Universal's price "continues to climb" as well. It's only a couple of bucks behind WDW for a one-day / one-park ticket, and I imagine it won't be long before Universal decides to raise it's price to match Disney's. At which point no one will be upset with Universal -- they'll still blame Disney for "starting it" and they'll say that Universal is just being "competitive". And really ... they're raising their prices based solely on the appeal and artistry of WWoHP, because they have not done a darn thing to refresh any other part of IOA. They're hoping that people come to see Harry Potter and are so amazed that they totally don't notice how run down everything else is.