So Iran doesn't have a nuclear program either...

[Charade]

You had to go and kill a talking point that had them on a roll.

only if it was a talking point...

 

[LuvDuke]

Oh come on now, stop using facts and logic.

Here's your facts and logic: Somewhere between 44,000 and 655,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed since George Bush invaded Iraq.

And how in the name of all that's holy can you people poo-poo the idea of 44,000 dead Iraqis? Is that a drop in the bucket to you?

 

[DISUNC]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/04/bush.iran/index.html

"On Tuesday the president acknowledged he had given a speech warning that Iran's nuclear development risked "World War III" about two months after his intelligence chief told him a reassessment of Tehran's nuclear ambitions was under way."

No matter how you slice it, dice it or cut it....BUSH AGAIN BOLD FACED LIED to the American people and the world.

He is beyond contempt & uterly repulsive!

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/04/bush.iran/index.html

"On Tuesday the president acknowledged he had given a speech warning that Iran's nuclear development risked "World War III" about two months after his intelligence chief told him a reassessment of Tehran's nuclear ambitions was under way."

No matter how you slice it, dice it or cut it....BUSH AGAIN BOLD FACED LIED to the American people and the world.

He is beyond contempt & uterly repulsive!

Thank you for bringing the thread back to where it belongs: discussing the new National Intelligence Estimate on Iran and their nuclear capabilities!! It's apparent to everyone but the most die-hard Bush apologist that our President has a bit of a credibility problem. According to ex CIA and Bush Administration officials, the Prez and his Veep seem to like to treat the CIA as their own personal PR company, that spits out the info that benefits the wants/need of the Administration, regardless of the truth. So now, after the ginned up report on Iraq, and the apparently ginned up 2005 report on Iran, it looks like, quite possibly, the CIA are tired of ginning up Intelligence reports for a lame duck President with the largest credibility gap in the history of America. The overwhelming majority of Americans (over 70%) think Iraq was a sucker's deal and a bad idea and finally, the CIA isn't afraid to call it like they see it. From the articles I read, Cheney was all over this report from the word go, and they still wouldn't cook the report to give the Prez what he wanted...and for Bush to say that he "just read it last week" is beyond ridiculous.

Noone denies that Ahmadinejad's a bad guy. Noone, even Iran, denies that at one point they were pursuing nuclear weapons. The question is, are they now in the planning stages of a nuclear weapons program, and are they an immediate risk to American interests. The new report seems to give us the facts we need. Why the majority of the Righties here, with CapeCodTenor as he lone dissenter, still want to carry the water for this President and follow him into another uneccessary war, when he has shown that he'd rather go with his gut, and get it wrong, every single freakin' time, is beyond me.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Thank you for bringing the thread back to where it belongs: discussing the new National Intelligence Estimate on Iran and their nuclear capabilities!! It's apparent to everyone but the most die-hard Bush apologist that our President has a bit of a credibility problem. According to ex CIA and Bush Administration officials, the Prez and his Veep seem to like to treat the CIA as their own personal PR company, that spits out the info that benefits the wants/need of the Administration, regardless of the truth. So now, after the ginned up report on Iraq, and the apparently ginned up 2005 report on Iran, it looks like, quite possibly, the CIA are tired of ginning up Intelligence reports for a lame duck President with the largest credibility gap in the history of America. The overwhelming majority of Americans (over 70%) think Iraq was a sucker's deal and a bad idea and finally, the CIA isn't afraid to call it like they see it. From the articles I read, Cheney was all over this report from the word go, and they still wouldn't cook the report to give the Prez what he wanted...and for Bush to say that he "just read it last week" is beyond ridiculous.

Noone denies that Ahmadinejad's a bad guy. Noone, even Iran, denies that at one point they were pursuing nuclear weapons. The question is, are they now in the planning stages of a nuclear weapons program, and are they an immediate risk to American interests. The new report seems to give us the facts we need. Why the majority of the Righties here, with CapeCodTenor as he lone dissenter, still want to carry the water for this President and follow him into another uneccessary war, when he has shown that he'd rather go with his gut, and get it wrong, every single freakin' time, is beyond me.

The thing that amazes me about these threads is how quickly they degenerate into absolutism. It seems that if you don't think GW Bush is right about Iraq and everything he's done there, then you must think that Radical Islamic Terrorists are right and that Saddam Hussein was a great guy. Hello? Can it not be grasped that two sides can be wrong?

Saddam was a bad guy and I'm not sorry he's gone. I don't trust the President of Iran as far as I could throw him. That said, I also have some trust issues with my own President. I don't trust him NOT to do something stupid like drop a bomb or two on Iran just because he thinks God wants him to.

 

[Charade]

Here's your facts and logic: Somewhere between 44,000 and 655,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed since George Bush invaded Iraq.

And how in the name of all that's holy can you people poo-poo the idea of 44,000 dead Iraqis? Is that a drop in the bucket to you?

I'm not poo-pooing the idea of any dead people. Please.

I'm poo-pooing the idea of an extremely inaccurate and exaggerated number used for political purposes *and* that implication that WE (the USA) killed those people.

 

[ford family]

Thank you for bringing the thread back to where it belongs: discussing the new National Intelligence Estimate on Iran and their nuclear capabilities!!

The NIE are saying that Iran appears to have stopped their nuclear weapon production in 2003.
Is this the same NIE who said the opposite in 2005?
What will they say in 2009?
Duck?

ford family

 

[Charade]

The NIE are saying that Iran appears to have stopped their nuclear weapon production in 2003.
Is this the same NIE who said the opposite in 2005?
What will they say in 2009?
Duck?

ford family

Isn't it interesting when the intel community comes out with something (even though it's still a WAG) they agree with, it's great. But when Tenent said "it's a slam dunk", they didn't believe him. Where did they get their intel?

 

[ford family]

Isn't it interesting when the intel community comes out with something (even though it's still a WAG) they agree with, it's great. But when Tenent said "it's a slam dunk", they didn't believe him. Where did they get their intel?

20/20 hindsight?

ford family

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/04/bush.iran/index.html

"On Tuesday the president acknowledged he had given a speech warning that Iran's nuclear development risked "World War III" about two months after his intelligence chief told him a reassessment of Tehran's nuclear ambitions was under way."

No matter how you slice it, dice it or cut it....BUSH AGAIN BOLD FACED LIED to the American people and the world.

He is beyond contempt & uterly repulsive!

thats NOT what he said...but way to misquote and spin it. He said IF Iran developed nuclear technology it COULD result in WWIII. How is that a lie?

Iran is STILL enriching uranium...and I just love, love, love that the pre-war intelligence leading into the Iraq war...well that was bogus, and all GWB's fault (even though Bill Clinton and his wife whole heartedly agreed with it) but now we're going to embrace this "intelligence" on Iran as if its the Gospel truth...even though Israel who has a MUCH bigger stake in all of this quickly refuted this new intelligence. Some have even suggested that the intelligence community is gun shy about making any bold intelligence "guesses" because the pre-war Iraq intelligence was bungled which may have colored this report.

Any way you slice it, they are still continuing to develop nuclear technology.....

 

[Fitswimmer]

Isn't it interesting when the intel community comes out with something (even though it's still a WAG) they agree with, it's great. But when Tenent said "it's a slam dunk", they didn't believe him. Where did they get their intel?

Ok, I'll bite. Our intelligence has proven to be pretty bad-especially the lousy job they did on Iraq. That leaves me to two possible conclusions: 1. The intelligence community, badly humiliated by their failure in Iraq, has worked to improve in the last 6 years. 2. This intelligence is as bad as the stuff we got on Iraq and there is no way we should even contemplate sending our military into action with such a questionable foundation.

Either way-it means Bush and Cheney need to put DOWN the sabers and stop drawing up bombing routes.

 

[salmoneous]

You see that, salmoneous?

Yeah, I see it. Here's her quote, "I don't know what Iran means when they say regime change. I do know what Bush means when he says it and it meant the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's. So, yes, it is in the perception."

I don't see any logical way whatsoever you can take a statement like that and conclude she is saying Iran isn't bad. I think these conversations go better when people address what people actually say... and nobody has said Iran's leaders aren't bad or dangerous.

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

Either way-it means Bush and Cheney need to put DOWN the sabers and stop drawing up bombing routes.

Please...where is the evidence of this? thats a bunch of left wing gobbedly gook. They are calling for strong sanctions...which by all appearances according to this above reproach intelligence is working out great

At least I can give you some respect for acknowledging that really this "intelligence" is meaningless because God only knows if its accurate.

Its just beyond hypocritical to me to use this report as evidence of the "plan" for the diabolical Bush/Cheney world empire. (insert evil laugh here)

Botton line, Iran has the potential to be a threat and they are not playing by the rules. I love how they are all of a sudden they are this great and wonderful country...are we forgetting that maybe or maybe not in lieu of their development of a nuclear bomb they have been directly linked to inciting insuragent violence in Iraq that has cost American soldiers their lives?!?!?

 

[HakunaMatata2]

thats NOT what he said...but way to misquote and spin it. He said IF Iran developed nuclear technology it COULD result in WWIII. How is that a lie?

Iran is STILL enriching uranium...and I just love, love, love that the pre-war intelligence leading into the Iraq war...well that was bogus, and all GWB's fault (even though Bill Clinton and his wife whole heartedly agreed with it) but now we're going to embrace this "intelligence" on Iran as if its the Gospel truth...even though Israel who has a MUCH bigger stake in all of this quickly refuted this new intelligence. Some have even suggested that the intelligence community is gun shy about making any bold intelligence "guesses" because the pre-war Iraq intelligence was bungled which may have colored this report.

Any way you slice it, they are still continuing to develop nuclear technology.....

Well said!

 

[HakunaMatata2]

thats NOT what he said...but way to misquote and spin it. He said IF Iran developed nuclear technology it COULD result in WWIII. How is that a lie?

Iran is STILL enriching uranium...and I just love, love, love that the pre-war intelligence leading into the Iraq war...well that was bogus, and all GWB's fault (even though Bill Clinton and his wife whole heartedly agreed with it) but now we're going to embrace this "intelligence" on Iran as if its the Gospel truth...even though Israel who has a MUCH bigger stake in all of this quickly refuted this new intelligence. Some have even suggested that the intelligence community is gun shy about making any bold intelligence "guesses" because the pre-war Iraq intelligence was bungled which may have colored this report.

Any way you slice it, they are still continuing to develop nuclear technology.....

Agree!

 

[Fitswimmer]

From the Washington Post-May 12, 2007

Aboard an aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf 150 miles off Iran's coast, Vice President Cheney warned Tehran yesterday that the United States and its allies will not allow Iran to acquire nuclear weapons, close off vital sea lanes for oil supplies, or control the Middle East.
Cheney issued the blunt warning during his Middle East tour, and just two days before Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad makes his own trip to the Gulf. The two visits reflect the growing rivalry between Washington and Tehran for influence in the region.
"Throughout the region our country has interests to protect and commitments to honor," Cheney told Navy staff aboard the USS John C. Stennis. "With two carrier strike groups in the Gulf, we're sending clear messages to friends and adversaries alike. We'll keep the sea lanes open. We'll stand with our friends in opposing extremism and strategic threats. We'll disrupt attacks on our own forces. We'll continue bringing relief to those who suffer and delivering justice to the enemies of freedom."

From the New Yorker, October 8, 2007

The President’s position, and its corollary—that, if many of America’s problems in Iraq are the responsibility of Tehran, then the solution to them is to confront the Iranians—have taken firm hold in the Administration. This summer, the White House, pushed by the office of Vice-President Dick Cheney, requested that the Joint Chiefs of Staff redraw long-standing plans for a possible attack on Iran, according to former officials and government consultants. The focus of the plans had been a broad bombing attack, with targets including Iran’s known and suspected nuclear facilities and other military and infrastructure sites. Now the emphasis is on “surgical” strikes on Revolutionary Guard Corps facilities in Tehran and elsewhere, which, the Administration claims, have been the source of attacks on Americans in Iraq.

Bolding is mine. There is saber rattling going on and has been for quite some time. To ignore it is to go down the same path we followed that landed us in Iraq with 4000 dead and no way out.

 

[Fitswimmer]

From the Guardian, July 2007

Almost half of the US's 277 warships are stationed close to Iran, including two aircraft carrier groups. The aircraft carrier USS Enterprise left Virginia last week for the Gulf. A Pentagon spokesman said it was to replace the USS Nimitz and there would be no overlap that would mean three carriers in Gulf at the same time.

The Washington source said Mr Bush and Mr Cheney did not trust any potential successors in the White House, Republican or Democratic, to deal with Iran decisively. They are also reluctant for Israel to carry out any strikes because the US would get the blame in the region anyway.

The White House claims that Iran, whose influence in the Middle East has increased significantly over the last six years, is intent on building a nuclear weapon and is arming insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The vice-president, Dick Cheney, has long favoured upping the threat of military action against Iran. He is being resisted by the secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, and the defence secretary, Robert Gates.

Does all this sound really familiar to anyone else?

 

[LuvDuke]

Isn't it interesting when the intel community comes out with something (even though it's still a WAG) they agree with, it's great. But when Tenent said "it's a slam dunk", they didn't believe him. Where did they get their intel?

The Intelligence Community was dead right about the WMD's. They had their doubts and the WH knew it.

It was Tenet, with his nose up Bush's butt, who said the intelligence was a "slam dunk". The WH chose to go with Tenet because he told them what they wanted to hear.

Aren't you finding it a little tough to rewrite history that's only 5 years old?

 

[LuvDuke]

The White House claims that Iran, whose influence in the Middle East has increased significantly over the last six years, is intent on building a nuclear weapon and is arming insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The vice-president, Dick Cheney, has long favoured upping the threat of military action against Iran. He is being resisted by the secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, and the defence secretary, Robert Gates.

Oh the irony. The reason why the Iranian influence has grown is because of the Bush policies, the invasion of Iraq, and the installation of a pro-Iranian Shiite goverment in Iran. Did no one at the WH forsee a democratically elected pro-Iranian Shiite government in a country that's 60% Shiite?

And people trust the moron in the WH to deal with Iran? I wouldn't trust him to take my garbage out.

Btw, I say let Cheney earn his taxpayers funded fancy-schmancy heart pacemaker, paid for by government run healthcare, by leading the charge on foot into Tehran. Maybe he'll get taken into custody and introduced to water boarding. War and torture might look different if he has any real experience with it.

 

[DawnCt1]

thats NOT what he said...but way to misquote and spin it. He said IF Iran developed nuclear technology it COULD result in WWIII. How is that a lie?

Iran is STILL enriching uranium...and I just love, love, love that the pre-war intelligence leading into the Iraq war...well that was bogus, and all GWB's fault (even though Bill Clinton and his wife whole heartedly agreed with it) but now we're going to embrace this "intelligence" on Iran as if its the Gospel truth...even though Israel who has a MUCH bigger stake in all of this quickly refuted this new intelligence. Some have even suggested that the intelligence community is gun shy about making any bold intelligence "guesses" because the pre-war Iraq intelligence was bungled which may have colored this report.

Any way you slice it, they are still continuing to develop nuclear technology.....

And spewing hatred towards Israel. And threatening its destruction, And supporting terrorists groups, and sending IEDs across the border to Iran.