So, FP+ basically not affecting anyone's wait time. Now what?

[Angel Ariel]

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that saying that it wasn't possible to abuse the FastPass system isn't true. It might not have been a widespread problem, but it was definitely possible.

I don't think anyone in this thread was saying it never happened. Just that getting 5-7 FPs in a day ≠ abusing the system or using tricks/loopholes.

It was entirely possible to get 5-7 FPs/day and be entirely within the rules of the system. That was the point that previous posters were trying to get across.

 

[morethananyonex]

Yea I see what you're saying there.

My vision for the FP+ going forward is that the onsite guests get the early access and the non resort guests can pay some sort of fee to pre-book. Therefore enticing people to stay on-site.

Remember too that the disney planning DVD is catered towards staying on-site so they really advertise the package that is the MDE experience as being part of your on-site stay.

Your vision doesn't really fit with Disney's. They have stated that the purpose of MM+ is to get people locked into their vacations before they leave home, minimizing the temptation of other Orlando attractions.

Why in the world would they discourage offsite guests from prebooking (with a fee) when offsite guests are the ones that are most likely to visit other attractions on a whim? I don't believe they will charge for prebooking for a second. I think offsite guests being encouraged to buy their tickets before they leave home and plan out their Disney days is very important to Disney. I would argue that prebooking is much more important to the success of the program with offsite guests than it is with onsite guests.

Disney knows no matter how appealing they make their resorts, they cannot bring everyone onsite. That is not what this is about.

Here's a loophole in the old system:

Legacy Fastpasses were non-transferable, written right on the ticket, but many families would use tickets from children too small to ride the headliners to get multiple fastpasses for older kids or adults to ride said headliner multiple times. A violation of the rules and resulted in the violators getting more fp rides a day and causing longer standby lines from their corrupt park practices.

This includes the "dust dealers" who would pull fps and intentionally transfer them against the rules and policies to others of their choosing to get some sort of perverted philanthropic thrill.

Dust dealers! I think Disney needs to find a way to get some of that back into the parks.

 

[Shaden]

When I read he article all it made me think was lose-lose. Disney kept the SB wait the same and they have limited FP availability. Great we have gotten less than nothing out of this "big improvement". I'm thrilled.....

Yup .... so, the net impact ?

Stand in more lines that are the same length ??? Meaning, more TIME in line, even if wait times haven't changed ?

Of course, we still have to add the FP+ wait times, and maybe get accurate wait time data, and also look at the data from presidents day weekend/week.

Great system so far ...

 

[Morgand]

The system really is just terrible. We for one will not be returning to Disney.

We have gone every year for the past 4 years and this new system is nothing more than Disney making room for even more people to cram their parks and get even less of an experience for increasingly larger amount of money.

Lots of room and money for new DVC accommodations too which in turn is more park guests. Just no money for the needed new attractions which are the only solution to the increasing numbers of Disney vacation goers.

The whole Disney experience is just gone for us. I can not even imagine how frustrating it is for those of you who have seen this decrease in experience over an even longer period of time because I know the quality of the experience has been steadily dropping for a long time. This is the final straw for us, lots of other places to go.

Too bad for Disney and too bad for its wonderful group of return customers which most of us are or were at least.

Loved the Dis though, you guys truly are a great group.

 

[EEPETEZ]

Yup .... so, the net impact ? Stand in more lines that are the same length ??? Meaning, more TIME in line, even if wait times haven't changed ? Of course, we still have to add the FP+ wait times, and maybe get accurate wait time data, and also look at the data from presidents day weekend/week. Great system so far ...

Maybe this could be the new promotion. "New at WDW-your family now has can wait in more lines that are not any shorter than before." This makes me really want to book my next trip. I'm just so disappointed in my favorite place.

 

[Golf4283]

The system really is just terrible. We for one will not be returning to Disney.

We have gone every year for the past 4 years and this new system is nothing more than Disney making room for even more people to cram their parks and get even less of an experience for increasingly larger amount of money.

Lots of room and money for new DVC accommodations too which in turn is more park guests. Just no money for the needed new attractions which are the only solution to the increasing numbers of Disney vacation goers.

The whole Disney experience is just gone for us. I can not even imagine how frustrating it is for those of you who have seen this decrease in experience over an even longer period of time because I know the quality of the experience has been steadily dropping for a long time. This is the final straw for us, lots of other places to go.

Too bad for Disney and too bad for its wonderful group of return customers which most of us are or were at least.

Loved the Dis though, you guys truly are a great group.

They really can't "cram" more people in the parks. There is a maximum capacity regardless of what fastpass system is used. This is why during the summer the entrance gates shut down occasionally. The parks can only hold so many people.

Also I've been going since the 80's and find the new system a breath of fresh air and I can't wait to return over Easter and use it again. to each their own.

Disney won't miss you because there's another person ready to give their money if you won't.

 

[d-r]

I can explain it. It is pretty easy.

First, everyone who reports they had a great time at Christmas or NYE was doing it when it was limited to resort guests and not required of everyone. When the legacy fast passes went away that changed.

So reports before the January roll outs right before MLK weekend are not valid.

Second, it looks to me like the slow days fast pass plus works fine. It is the busy days - so far, MLK weekend and Presidents Day weekend - that it has been an issue.

Let me repeat that. There has only been two busy times since the legacy fast passes were removed, MLK weekend and Presidents Day weekend. Fast pass plus struggled both of those times.

It isn't really surprising that it works fine the middle of January. Hopefully, those two holiday weekends will give them some ideas to work out the kinks before spring break, when it will be crowded and fast pass plus as it is now would buckle again under the stress.

As of right now, overall statistics on wait times are basically meaningless because with the exception of two holiday weekends, when the system bogged, the only days have been very low off-season days. The legacy fast passes have only been gone a little over a month.

 

[Angel Ariel]

They really can't "cram" more people in the parks. There is a maximum capacity regardless of what fastpass system is used. This is why during the summer the entrance gates shut down occasionally. The parks can only hold so many people.

There have been references to the stockholders call where Iger said that MM+ allowed them to get 3000 more people through the gates during Christmas week. The going theory (since it isn't spelled out in the call) is that guest turnover was possibly quicker than in previous years (people leaving when their FP+ were done, perhaps), and the 3000 more people were able to be let in due to others leaving/

 

[Golf4283]

There have been references to the stockholders call where Iger said that MM+ allowed them to get 3000 more people through the gates during Christmas week. The going theory (since it isn't spelled out in the call) is that guest turnover was possibly quicker than in previous years (people leaving when their FP+ were done, perhaps), and the 3000 more people were able to be let in due to others leaving/

so how is that cramming "more" people into the park? if those 3,000 guests leave and 3,000 more enter there are still only 3,000 in the park to buy food and souvenirs, no? Think about it.

 

[snoopy352]

Again, those pictures were from one of the busiest days of the year. I'm not going to take that as proof of anything.

This mindset is nonsensical. The point of FASTpass is to allow you to ride FASTer. There should be a finite # of FP tickets in play, which would completely and utterly negate the overall crowd levels in the park.

 

[Rosebud123]

the way i see it, and my first visit under the new system is in 3 weeks.

Is only 3 fast passes now, where one could easily get 6-8 under the old system in a day.

which causes more people to wait standby.

Exactly!!!

 

[Golf4283]

Exactly!!!

and yet the standby line times didn't increase....

 

[Angel Ariel]

so how is that cramming "more" people into the park? if those 3,000 guests leave and 3,000 more enter there are still only 3,000 in the park to buy food and souvenirs, no? Think about it.

I didn't say it was cramming "more" people into the park as in taking up more space. I was just saying that Disney stated that they did ADD to their attendance by being able to bring in 3000 more people (and as such their admission fees) than in previous years.

 

[Golf4283]

I didn't say it was cramming "more" people into the park as in taking up more space. I was just saying that Disney stated that they did ADD to their attendance by being able to bring in 3000 more people (and as such their admission fees) than in previous years.

yea but you were commenting on a comment that I commented on above where the person used the reference of "cramming" more people in. My mistake in using your reference as an example. I just wanted to clarify to that person that they can't cram "more" people than are allowed at any one given time.

 

[dayvewc]

so how is that cramming "more" people into the park? if those 3,000 guests leave and 3,000 more enter there are still only 3,000 in the park to buy food and souvenirs, no? Think about it.

Because they count the total number of people served through the parks across the entire day. If before, those 3000 people did not leave, then the park only served its normal 50,000 people for the day. (And yes, I'm making up some numbers for illustration - I do not know actual attendance figures nor do I mean to imply that I do). But because of turnover 3000 new people are able to enter, and even though at any one time the maximum park capacity was not surpassed, 53,000 managed to get served on that day.

 

[Golf4283]

Because they count the total number of people served through the parks across the entire day. If before, those 3000 people did not leave, then the park only served its normal 50,000 people for the day. (And yes, I'm making up some numbers for illustration - I do not know actual attendance figures nor do I mean to imply that I do). But because of turnover 3000 new people are able to enter, and even though at any one time the maximum park capacity was not surpassed, 53,000 managed to get served on that day.

yea but when those 3,000 leave and 3,000 new people enter they are still only serving 50,000 average attendees per day. I'm talking actual entrants to the park at any given moment can't exceed the 50,000 number you gave. They can't physically serve the additional 3,000 without first 3,000 leaving.

The only benefit to Disney here is the ticket purchases. They're not selling any more merch. or food because of this.

 

[flicx]

The title of this thread sounds like something that came from Disney's face book page. You know the one that takes down negative feedback!

 

[Angel Ariel]

yea but you were commenting on a comment that I commented on above where the person used the reference of "cramming" more people in. My mistake in using your reference as an example. I just wanted to clarify to that person that they can't cram "more" people than are allowed at any one given time.

I didn't say I was agreeing with that person. I was offering a perspective on how Disney is still making more money with this system by getting mroe people through the gates.

 

[WillAustin]

Yup .... so, the net impact ?

Stand in more lines that are the same length ??? Meaning, more TIME in line, even if wait times haven't changed ?

Exactly. If I have to wait in more standby lines than before, it definitely increases my wait time.

 

[magicbob]

So, all of the posts here saying that they are waiting longer are either just misconceptions or mistaken, I guess? I'd love to get a hard look at the data they are using.

Or choice c.) The blog post is mistaken. What makes this blogger any more reliable than personal experiences related here?