So, FP+ basically not affecting anyone's wait time. Now what?

I'm not a late sleeper, but most of the time I spend at Disney is for marathon weekend, which means I don't get to the parks until the late morning/afternoon, after having run anywhere from 3-26.2 miles. So, to me, that's a HUGE benefit.

I can certainly understand why you would be pro FP+ then, as well as for many others who were unable to obtain legacy fast passes! But perhaps Disney could have rewarded those in the marathon with their own set of FP's instead of making a mess of things.

Right now, the new system just seems to be making lines worse and the technical aspects simply do not function correctly.
 
There are reports on these boards this week that the AK FP+ line was 25 minutes long when standby was also 25 minutes long, that Splash had over a 20 minute FP+ line, and that someone waited in the FP+ line for Rapunzel for 45 minutes. We have never waited that length of time in any FP- line. That makes me suspect that if the standby lines have not increased, it is due to WDW manipulating the system. Either: 1) they are issuing too many FP+ in essence making some of these FP lines substantially longer than usual and in some cases evey as long as the standby lines; or 2) they are holding people in the FP+ line back and letting more standby line people thorough in an effort to "show" that FP+ does not increase standby lines (in effect increasing the FP lines instead).
 
Again, those pictures were from one of the busiest days of the year. I'm not going to take that as proof of anything.

We experienced back up on Soarin consistently during the first week of February on recommended Epcot days. The worst we experienced was just under 10 minutes outside the FP line with another 5-10 before merge (and then the long wait after merge). We have never experienced that on Soarin in the past during busier times of year.
 
roomthreeseventeen said:
Again, those pictures were from one of the busiest days of the year. I'm not going to take that as proof of anything.

The busiest days of the year are a reality for many who plan trips.
 

Again, those pictures were from one of the busiest days of the year. I'm not going to take that as proof of anything.

You keep saying this but it doesn't match up to past experience. This is the first year in many that I have not been at WDW during President's Day/weekend(thank the heavens we decided no this time). I have never, ever, ever seen FP lines like those they had on Monday. Sure there were a couple rides like Soarin that had a small wait of 10-15 minutes or so for FP but Star Tours? NO. Outside of the building and down the street for Star Tours? Most certainly NO. BTTMR? NO.

Now I'm not a big fan of FP+, I just find it didn't work for me and my family all that well when we used it. However, I'm not one who completely blames it for every injustice in the world either. But those lines on Monday for FP were not and never have been normal for Presidents Day, and well, the only thing different is FP+ so ergo....
 
OK I'm going to make a statement I think we can all agree on and go from there...ready?

January (not MLK weekend, not NYE but late January) is one of the slowest/ best times of year to go.....

anyone want to argue?

We've been many times in January and many rides are walk ons at that point - by walk on I mean we have walked directly from the entrance to the actual ride without encountering any wait. For the sake of argument I'll say that we had to wait 5 minutes on those rides to give a cushion.

When we went this year 2014 in January many rides that were formerly walk on or very close to it at this time of year had lines of 10 minutes or a lot more (and that's being nice). I'm talking about Stand-by lines not FP and I'm talking in the afternoon not RD.

I don't see this as a 'reduction' or 'one minute more' scenario in any way shape or form. I'm comparing apples to apples - we've been many times at the same time of year and I can't remember encountering waits like those for those rides (and no I'm not talking about TSM! )
 
TP does it's own measuring. It's not relying on Disney's numbers.

Anyway, I find it funny that people are comparing anecdotal reports to TP, who already stated they've collected 330K (!) waits already. These guys know what they're doing. But I guess it doesn't stop people from coming to a fallacious conclusion based on limited information.

Yeah ... I've been tracking Disney's own My Experience site and TP's Lines app for a couple of weeks and I just don't see the huge impact of FP+ that's being described here and on other boards. What I'm seeing and hearing from the TP guys is that stand by times are a little longer on the traditionally big ticket rides and that secondary rides and shows haven't shown much impact at all.

Bottom line ... with or without FP+, touring the parks remains ridiculously easier if you show up at rope drop. I seriously doubt that's ever really going to change.
 
Yeah ... I've been tracking Disney's own My Experience site and TP's Lines app for a couple of weeks and I just don't see the huge impact of FP+ that's being described here and on other boards.

You wouldn't see the impact on the FP+ line (in terms of length) by looking at the apps, because the apps don't post the wait times for the FP+ line.

What I'm seeing and hearing from the TP guys is that stand by times are a little longer on the traditionally big ticket rides and that secondary rides and shows haven't shown much impact at all.

TP also specifically stated in the blog linked in the OP of this post, that they have *not* done any measuring on the lengths of the FP+ lines.

The OP of this thread attempted to use the blog as evidence that the long FP+ lines that are being reported don't really exist, when the blog itself said that the FP+ lines haven't been measured by TP.
 
Yeah ... I've been tracking Disney's own My Experience site and TP's Lines app for a couple of weeks and I just don't see the huge impact of FP+ that's being described here and on other boards. What I'm seeing and hearing from the TP guys is that stand by times are a little longer on the traditionally big ticket rides and that secondary rides and shows haven't shown much impact at all.

Bottom line ... with or without FP+, touring the parks remains ridiculously easier if you show up at rope drop. I seriously doubt that's ever really going to change.

I think many of the complaints have been about the wait in the FPP return line. I hope TP studies that. But, yes, we are sticking to rope drop.
 
The OP of this thread attempted to use the blog as evidence that the long FP+ lines that are being reported don't really exist, when the blog itself said that the FP+ lines haven't been measured by TP.

No, I really didn't. I'm just saying that FP+ does not seem to have affected standby lines. I didn't make it clear enough.
 
Maybe not in the past, but, during our trip at the beginning of February, we were given the "wait time scan card" at least 4 times when using the FP+ line. So they are tracking that data now, which lends more credence to the whole idea that they are tinkering with things on the fly.

I still question whether Disney are deliberately flooding the system by over-allocating additional fastpass availability to test what is likely to happen in the extremely busy times of year - it would make sense to trial the system at full throttle for a short period of time, before the long summer onslaught begins and it is too late to make adjustments.

Just say they try allowing 800 fastpasses per hour on Space Mountain for one week in February and find that there are extreme problems (of whatever nature - let's face it - Fastpass+ creates different problems to legacy Fastpass, it is not just about ride capacity per hour, there are other factors which now play a part too) At least with a week of crowds the following weeks are likely to be quieter.

Once the 60 day booking window comes around for the summer months those fastpasses are going to be snapped up and it will be more difficult to manipulate crowds if problems present then.

I really hope they adjust the maths behind the scenes to solve these problems. Pirates should never really need to be done with a fastpass, but by Disney allocating half of the ride capacity to fastpass users, the other half of the riders then require a fastpass. Think about it: the standby line with half the old capacity goes from a reasonable 15-30 minutes to an unreasonable 30-60 minutes. I know if I was in Adventureland with time to kill I would probably go round on Pirates if I saw a 20 minute wait - would I stand in line for 45 minutes to an hour... maybe not so keen.

I do think time will tell with this.
 
Conversely, you could say that for all the money spent on FP+ it provides little benefit ...

... visible to the guest, at this exact moment. There may be a great many benefits that are not immediately apparent. People tend to be focused on the short-term, and what they can individually see. They don't have access to all of the information, so they come to incorrect assumptions and conclusions.

Thus, why it's enlightening that Disney is saying that FastPass utilization is substantially higher. Most savvy park-goers who are familiar with FastPass wouldn't necessarily be able to tell you that Joe Average who's never been to the parks before doesn't have any idea what FastPass is, or that it's free. Even people who have gone multiple times don't always know. The increased exposure for guests here is a BIG deal. That's why they've also increased the number of rides with it and the amount of FastPasses allocated. It's closer to being what they had envisioned it to be, which isn't so much "faster" access to rides, as it is an alternative to waiting in a line, because when you don't wait in line, you're spending money. By the way, revenue at the parks are up 8%, so there's another metric Disney is happy about.

Yes, there are hiccups now, and it's not a smooth process. But it WILL be. Judging a major thing like this on a couple of months of availability is flawed logic. Not to mention that the "evidence" is largely anecdotal. People see "long lines". They don't see the reality, which is a fast moving line bottlenecked at a highly visible place, making the line look longer and slower than it is. This will get fixed, but they needed to implement to know this would happen.

The biggest problem Disney has right now is a perception problem. That may be just as important as if the system was "not working." Because people perceive it as broken, they need to figure out how to deal with the perception as much as the system itself.
 
No, I really didn't. I'm just saying that FP+ does not seem to have affected standby lines. I didn't make it clear enough.

Half the data only paints half the picture.

If they are increasing FP+ allocations, you would think the SB would actually go down in wait, not stay equal to the historical averages.

And, with more being pushed to secondary attractions by FP+, it's going to take a lot more time (and data) to measure the overall impact.

A change in FP+ allocations can/could impact all touring plans- like, reserving your FP+'s for the major rides in the afternoon while planning on using the rest of the time to ride secondaries.

It could be better, could be worse, but changing the allocations means everything needs to be re-thought, strategy-wise.
 
No, I really didn't. I'm just saying that FP+ does not seem to have affected standby lines. I didn't make it clear enough.

How does this response not say that the blog is evidence that the longer waits in FP+ lines don't exist as advertised?

This might be, but how do you explain longer waits in the FP+ lines?

I think this blog is saying they don't exist as advertised.

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what I've misinterpreted in that statement.
 
This might be, but how do you explain longer waits in the FP+ lines?

I think this blog is saying they don't exist as advertised.

Actually, no it's not. The blog specifically says they haven't measured the FP+ line waits.

ETA.. I just reread the article and it doesn't really say anything about FP+ wait times. The article concentrates on SB wait times. Unless I'm missing something.


Stand by wait times at individual rides. Saying it has made no difference in wait times is deceiving.

I guess that's correct.


Man I love when someone starts a post with a BOLD statement, and then within the first page it becomes obvious their interpretation of the article is horribly inaccurate, and they already start back pedaling ....

buahahahaha

Seriously. 2 Major things.

This is NOT including the time to redeem FP+s, those lines are obviously quite long.

We also don't know WHEN this data is from. If they gathered data throughout January while the parks were empty, then, no crap FP+ hasn't really had an impact on wait times. :confused3

And this is based on POSTED wait times, not on actual wait times. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
 
By increasing the percentage of ride capacity to FP+, all we've done is shift the line from the standby to the FP+. Standby line has less people but FP has more, same number of people per hour, therefore, standby waits do not change, FP waits go up.
 
I don't care what some blog says, all I know is that because now I can only get 3FP's a day I will be spending much more time in SB lines. So yes, my wait time will be effected by FP+.
 
We've been many times in January and many rides are walk ons at that point - by walk on I mean we have walked directly from the entrance to the actual ride without encountering any wait. For the sake of argument I'll say that we had to wait 5 minutes on those rides to give a cushion.

When we went this year 2014 in January many rides that were formerly walk on or very close to it at this time of year had lines of 10 minutes or a lot more (and that's being nice). I'm talking about Stand-by lines not FP and I'm talking in the afternoon not RD.

I don't see this as a 'reduction' or 'one minute more' scenario in any way shape or form. I'm comparing apples to apples - we've been many times at the same time of year and I can't remember encountering waits like those for those rides (and no I'm not talking about TSM! )


You also reaslize that ANY comparison of previous years Jan to this years Jan or even from week to week or day to day is meaningless without actual admitance numbers which Disney won't provide us, right?

For example - there is a higher number of visitors from South America this year. Apparently Jan has become the popular time for them since it's their summer time, Disney is growing in popularity, and the middle class is growing in numbers and influance.
 
TP does it's own measuring. It's not relying on Disney's numbers.
Anyway, I find it funny that people are comparing anecdotal reports to TP, who already stated they've collected 330K (!) waits already. These guys know what they're doing. But I guess it doesn't stop people from coming to a fallacious conclusion based on limited information.

I find it funny you clearly didn't read whats posted in the article.

TP used POSTED wait times, not their own collected data.
 


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