So angry I could bust!! (Vent)

[torinsmom]

I don't think there's anything wrong with any teacher counting off for spelling, grammar and punctuation in an assignment. I know my son's middle school teachers had a rubric for every written assignment and this was one of the areas scored, no matter what the subject was.

I do have to defend "natural writing" or what we call "creative spelling" when kids are very young(4-6 years old). It helps them get their words on paper without asking how every word is spelled. I have kids from PreK-K and in the second quarter of K, we start to correct spelling of words they should have learned, like the, my, mother, etc. Each quarter, more words are corrected, as they get used to writing more.

I was allowed to pick my son's teachers in K-8. I picked his preK/K teacher and his 1st-3rd grade teacher. I messed up pretty big on that last one, as the teacher considered the "best" teacher by others may not be the best fit fir every child. Thank goodness, the intern took some of the kids the next year, and he was a good fit. After that, I let the teacher pick the next class for my son. They knew my son's school personality and the teacher's personality better than me. He is in high school, and although I have requested he not have a teacher again after a year of misery, I haven't requested a specific teacher again.

 

[sparklynails23]

'..I would also like to say that I think letting teachers/other school employees choose their children's teachers is a perk they should have. I won't jump on my soapbox about how underpaid and overworked teachers are and how thankless the job can be. No, I'm not a teacher and I'm not married to one. But I know lots of good ones and I never begrudge them the perks they do have (like choosing teachers). If you are a teacher, thank you.

Oh, please. Unless the teachers are doubling up on their school taxes, they are paying the same amount for the service of public schooling as the other children's parents. Their children "deserve" no inside track that is not available to other students.

The nepotism in my local district is bizarre. Administrator's kids get summer jobs at the school, school board member's relatives are hired for the new teacher positions over hundreds of other worthy applicants, the gym teacher is related to the guidance counselor who is related to the science teacher, etc. It's a cluster of nepotism funded by our tax dollars. How in the world it goes on in this day and age is a mystery.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Shouldn't a high school freshman kind of have a hang for punctuation, capitalization and grammar by now? Or am I so 5 minutes ago?

Some do, many don't. Kids develop a lot in their writing ability (including punctuation and grammar) in the four years of high school.

 

[jrmasm]

I still can't get over the part about "handpicking" her teachers. When I went to school, back in the dark ages, you were given a schedule and you followed it. You get to pick your teachers these days????

Not around here you don't. The district will 'consider' a request for a type of teacher. And then you get what you get.


To the OP . The teacher is right.

 

[punkin]

I still can't get over the part about "handpicking" her teachers. When I went to school, back in the dark ages, you were given a schedule and you followed it. You get to pick your teachers these days????

It does seem to me that in DD's middle school there are some people who get to pick and the rest of us are stuck with the dregs. DD12 has had: 6th grade-Second worst teacher in Science; 7th grade - worst teacher in science; 8th grade 3rd worst teacher in science. Honestly there are 3 good science teachers in that school. Their classes are always filled to overflowing (teachers' kids, PTA officers' kids, etc.) and my child has to deal with what she gets.

 

[ilovemk76]

DD14 attends the high school where I am also a teacher. I didn't hand pick her teachers just let her get whomever she was assigned. Big mistake!!! She has a Biology teacher who must have been a college English teacher in another life. My daughter works hard to get the correct answers on a homework assignment, should have gotten a 90 for the content/correct answers. But no, she gets a 70 for punctuation, grammar and capitalization errors. I am livid, so I go talk to my co-work/DD's teacher. She was rude!!!! I told her I thought that get the correct answer in the core subject was the important thing, not grammar etc. She then made the comment, I guess she won't make the same mistake next time. I mean really?? She teaches high school freshman, it is just barely the second week of school. I think she needs to retire!!! Old hag!! Thanks for letting me vent!! I feel better now! Heck, I feel a lot better!!

The "old hag" is correct. Go Old Hag!!!


I would hate to see this in the future. "DD14 go to hi skool where me teacher."

 

[Andtototoo]

I do have to defend "natural writing" or what we call "creative spelling" when kids are very young(4-6 years old). It helps them get their words on paper without asking how every word is spelled. I have kids from PreK-K and in the second quarter of K, we start to correct spelling of words they should have learned, like the, my, mother, etc. Each quarter, more words are corrected, as they get used to writing more..

It doesn't work. I saw it 40+ years ago when they tried it with my first grade and I see it now in my dd's classmates. Almost none of the kids are able to re-learn how to spell properly. It is a theory that does not work. What you learn first is what you remember forever.

As an example, my dd works for a city office that hires local teenagers. Last week there was a huge problem caused by information distributed to the public that had tons of spelling errors. ALL of the other teens were called into the office and read the riot act because NONE of them can spell properly and did not use spell check. None of them had sense of the fact that they can't spell -- it "looked right" to them, so they didn't use spell check. It looked right to them because the spelling errors were phonetic or 'natural" spelling which was what they were taught in first grade and which they have never overcome. My dd was excused because as her boss said, "You're the only one here who can spell." She was also given a promotion to oversee all of the public information. She's also the only one whose parent refused to allow her to use that creative/natural spelling. Coincidence? I think not.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Wow, you all are out for blood today. Should be an interesting day on the Dis, unfortunately I'm going to be busy most of it.

OP, I understand that she was rude to you and that's why you called her an Old Hag. I think she has a point with the grammar, etc., however I do think she could have approached it differently.

It's amazing how far my son has come in his writing from Freshman to Senior year.

I'd just help her with her grammar, punctuation, etc. and remind her she has to be very careful about it - that now's when it really starts to matter.

 

[mhsjax]

I worked for Dr's all my life. I would bet that more than half of them have the handwriting of a 5 year old, their grammar is horrible and they can't spell. But they sure were very well regarded as far as the medical practice.

I do think it is important, but I also think that they need to be graded for the subject they are taking. Maybe this area is her weakness and to continually knock her down because of it, isn't doing her any favors.

 

[mdsoccermom]

DD14 attends the high school where I am also a teacher. I didn't hand pick her teachers just let her get whomever she was assigned. Big mistake!!! She has a Biology teacher who must have been a college English teacher in another life. My daughter works hard to get the correct answers on a homework assignment, should have gotten a 90 for the content/correct answers. But no, she gets a 70 for punctuation, grammar and capitalization errors. I am livid, so I go talk to my co-work/DD's teacher. She was rude!!!! I told her I thought that get the correct answer in the core subject was the important thing, not grammar etc. She then made the comment, I guess she won't make the same mistake next time. I mean really?? She teaches high school freshman, it is just barely the second week of school. I think she needs to retire!!! Old hag!! Thanks for letting me vent!! I feel better now! Heck, I feel a lot better!!

The teacher is absolutely, 100% right. Your daughter won't make the same mistake next time. This wasn't a case of one misspelling. Your daughter had enough errors to have 20 points taken off.

If you can't see the problem with that, then I suggest a career change.

 

[spacemountainmom]

I work in a middle school and I am shocked at what I see on kids' papers. I monitor study hall and am constantly helping kids correct their spelling and usage errors. If I had a dime for every time to, too and two or their and there are misused, I could fund a Disney trip in record time. My biggest pet peeve - using your in place of you're. I really want to ask the teachers if they are grading for spelling and usage.

Sadly, I see a day coming when papers will look more like FB and text language.

I applaud the teacher for upholding writing standards in her classroom!

 

[cornflake]

This last line really struck me. I wonder if the biology teacher had indicated to the students that she/he would be grading more than just the content. If they did, I think the grade is fair. If the teacher did not, I think that the first homework/paper should be graded differently than the rest. Kids will respect that. To a high school freshman, you should not assume that this is the normal.

Personally, I'm a high school math teacher. It drives me up the wall when the spell a word wrong that was spelled correctly in the word problem. I do not require complete sentences, etc.

I'm impressed that a freshman is taking biology. Any school I have worked in, sophomores take biology. And it's difficult for them.

I see what you're saying but I just don't think kids should have to be told that they're required to use correct grammar, spelling, etc. when in school. That should be a blanket requirement that's, at least to me, intuitive.

As for the bio, really? Most schools I know of around here here do -

Freshman year - bio
Sophomore year - chem
Jr. year - physics
Sr. year - whichever of those as AP.

I don't think I know any kids don't/didn't do Freshman bio.

 

[onelilspark]

As someone only a few years out of college, I agree that it's a good thing that the teacher is grading that way. I cringe with some of the emails that come across from my co-workers. I'm not perfect in grammar or spelling, but at least I know the basics (i.e. their, there, they're, your, you're, etc) I know when I was in High School I would have my Dad proof-read my answers that I knew would be graded for spelling & grammar.

ETA: I've always had difficulty with some aspects of grammar and thought I was behind in the subject. Until I got to college and we had to proof-read our peer's papers in our Freshman writing course. Mine were constantly being handed back to me with one or two marks, while I was marking up the entire page for others because of all the errors I found. I wound up going to my professor for help because I knew I was far from perfect, but apparently no one was taught proper grammar in high school.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I see what you're saying but I just don't think kids should have to be told that they're required to use correct grammar, spelling, etc. when in school. That should be a blanket requirement that's, at least to me, intuitive.

As for the bio, really? Most schools I know of around here here do -

Freshman year - bio
Sophomore year - chem
Jr. year - physics
Sr. year - whichever of those as AP.

I don't think I know any kids don't/didn't do Freshman bio.

Oh yea, we have school districts here that force a freshman to take earth science their freshman yr. Let's just say I am disgusted with this and leave it at that.

They only allow "gifted kids" to take biology.

 

[Nancyg56]

I have always picked my daughters teachers from grade school - 6th grade...and yes I am sure if any parent wanted to do it they could, I know others who have--most just don't want to be bothered. !

My DD is far from a lazy parent. There is no "hand-picking" teachers in our school system. When kady went into first grade two of the teachers had gone to school with DD and she would have liked to have one of them for her DD. She sent in a request. Denied. And thank goodness for that! My DGD blossomed under the guidance of the teacher selected for her.

I still can't get over the part about "handpicking" her teachers. When I went to school, back in the dark ages, you were given a schedule and you followed it. You get to pick your teachers these days????

Not in our town! Can you imagine the chaos? The teachers provide feedback to the administration pertaining to each child and help to place children with teachers who will complement the child. There is also an effort to try to "mix" kids up as much as possible which helps children to make new friends throughout the school year and to avoid forming cliques that move from grade to grade.school to school.

DD14 attends the high school where I am also a teacher. I didn't hand pick her teachers just let her get whomever she was assigned. Big mistake!!! She has a Biology teacher who must have been a college English teacher in another life. My daughter works hard to get the correct answers on a homework assignment, should have gotten a 90 for the content/correct answers. But no, she gets a 70 for punctuation, grammar and capitalization errors. I am livid, so I go talk to my co-work/DD's teacher. She was rude!!!! I told her I thought that get the correct answer in the core subject was the important thing, not grammar etc. She then made the comment, I guess she won't make the same mistake next time. I mean really?? She teaches high school freshman, it is just barely the second week of school. I think she needs to retire!!! Old hag!! Thanks for letting me vent!! I feel better now! Heck, I feel a lot better!!

I just had to repost this. I am shocked that a teacher would actually have this attitude and still be paid to educate children at the high school level. My DGD has been responsible for her spelling and grammar since she began to write in first grade. Children were taught to be aware of sentence structure from the beginning and were gradually learning to place their thought on paper properly. The emphasis on her written communication increased year to year but it had to start somewhere.

I believe that a HS student who has lost 20 points on a paper because of punctuation and grammar needs to take a crash course to improve those skills . A parent who finds it acceptable to berate the teacher for attempting to challenge students to present work that is complete might find it worthwhile to take a refresher course as well.

 

[Swan4Me]

DD14 attends the high school where I am also a teacher.

What do YOU teach?

I'm surprised , though, that a science test would be answers in complete sentances. I remember mine being more multiple choice, fill in the blanks

I do think lowering the grade that much must mean your DD really has problems that need immediate attention

 

[rgf207]

I applaud the teacher. Grammar and spelling doesn't stop after English class is over. People need strong spelling and grammar skills everywhere.

 

[golfgal]

Um, isn't this a requirement in ALL of her classes? I guess I am confused why you, as a TEACHER, would be ok with a student that didn't capitalize and punctuate ANY paper correctly. It isn't just in English classes that we have to write properly Also, if she lost 20 points for her spelling, grammar and punctuation, she SHOULD be with teachers that care about this. That is a LOT of points.

Just curious, what subject do you teach?

 

[Tinijocaro]

I see what you're saying but I just don't think kids should have to be told that they're required to use correct grammar, spelling, etc. when in school. That should be a blanket requirement that's, at least to me, intuitive.

As for the bio, really? Most schools I know of around here here do -

Freshman year - bio
Sophomore year - chem
Jr. year - physics
Sr. year - whichever of those as AP.

I don't think I know any kids don't/didn't do Freshman bio.

Ours is:
8th grade: Bio
9th grade: Earth Science (not required)
10th grade: Chemistry
11 grade: Physics
12th grade: AP

 

[Alesia]

This last line really struck me. I wonder if the biology teacher had indicated to the students that she/he would be grading more than just the content. If they did, I think the grade is fair. If the teacher did not, I think that the first homework/paper should be graded differently than the rest. Kids will respect that. To a high school freshman, you should not assume that this is the normal.

I disagree. Students should be expected to be using correct spelling and grammar well before their freshman year.

I'm impressed that a freshman is taking biology. Any school I have worked in, sophomores take biology. And it's difficult for them.

I guess it's a regional thing. where I'm from, biology has always been a freshman class.