So about this spy balloon...

[TwoMisfits]

So you are saying Reuters and AP are invited to classified briefings?

No, I'm saying the military and the administration knew Jan 28...and could have handled it and briefed the public then...but instead, chose to keep absolutely radio silent until a local Billings news journalist got a pic and broadcast it.

And then, they still waited almost 24 hours after the entire world knew about it, to confirm.

If you like that scenario...great. I'm not a big fan of finding out after the world knows from the internet and not my government and military.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The public didn't at the time...but the press, including Reuters and AP, is now happily and helpfully sharing the whole timeline after the fact.

Which is great if you like being the last to know...

"The balloon first entered U.S. airspace in Alaska on Jan. 28 before moving into Canadian airspace on Monday Jan 30. It then re-entered U.S. airspace over northern Idaho on Jan. 31, a U.S. defense official said. Once it crossed over U.S. land, it did not return to the open waters, making a shootdown difficult."

"U.S. officials did not publicly disclose the balloon's presence over the United States until Thursday."

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-says-us-is-going-take-care-of-chinese-balloon-2023-02-04/

I *thought* (and this is without me delving too much into fact checking) the orders were given to shoot down when safe to do so? Given that it happened over water it would seem they deemed it safe to do so over water vs risking it over land.

Is there something that has come out to say that the military disobeyed the President's order (as if the order was to shoot it down immediately) as your wording seems to imply?

 

[Marrila]

No, I'm saying the military and the administration knew Jan 28...and could have handled it and briefed the public then...but instead, chose to keep absolutely radio silent until a local Billings news journalist got a pic and broadcast it.

And then, they still waited almost 24 hours after the entire world knew about it, to confirm.

If you like that scenario...great. I'm not a big fan of finding out after the world knows from the internet and not my government and military.

I suspect there are many situations that aren't briefed to john q public for a variety of reasons.

 

[john7994]

I suspect there are many situations that aren't briefed to john q public for a variety of reasons.

Exactly - not sure the military is beholden to "briefing the public" first and foremost unless there was an imminent threat - considering that officials also had to plead with said same public to "not try and shoot it down" - is probably enough said.

 

[TwoMisfits]

I *thought* (and this is without me delving too much into fact checking) the orders were given to shoot down when safe to do so? Given that it happened over water it would seem they deemed it safe to do so over water vs risking it over land.

Is there something that has come out to say that the military disobeyed the President's order (as if the order was to shoot it down immediately) as your wording seems to imply?

The order was given after the internet had the story from Billings...the military has confirmed no order was given on Jan 28 (the day of their noting the incursion and briefing the president) or at any time until after the world ran with the story. THAT's what bothers me.

I would hope that foreign power incursions in our air space is something that is noteworthy to tell the public - especially the whole "we have handled the issue" as you brief them, b/c these things should never happen (yes, I used to be Air Force, so this is probably big for me), and if they do, they should be handled immediately.

No nation should violate US air space.

 

[john7994]

The order was given after the internet had the story from Billings...the military has confirmed no order was given on Jan 28 (the day of their noting the incursion and briefing the president) or at any time until after the world ran with the story. THAT's what bothers me.

The part that you keep leaving out - is that it traversed US airspace on the 28th over the Aleutians and then into Canadian airspace - unless there was a crystal ball in the pentagon to know where it was going next - it reentering Montana (US airspace) coincidentally with the order to shoot down shortly after - actually fits ...

 

[TwoMisfits]

The part that you keep leaving out - is that it traversed US airspace on the 28th over the Aleutians and then into Canadian airspace - unless there was a crystal ball in the pentagon to know where it was going next - it reentering Montana (US airspace) coincidentally with the order to shoot down shortly after - actually fits ...

We should have been informed and shot it down Jan 28. If it came from China, we knew that its path was likely to violate our air space long before Jan 28, so the Jan 28 briefing, once it officially did, was solely "go/ no go" on what to do, b/c we certainly foresaw it coming...

 

[Carol_]

There are spy satellites all over. And this type of spying is nothing new and has gone on for ages. I think hopemax is on to something. It's a slow news week and this is the latest thing for talking heads to rile the people up.

We have many other domestic issues to be more concerned about.

We can walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

[leebee]

According to the NYT:

China decried the “excessive reaction that seriously violates international convention,” and said that it “retains the right to respond further.”​

So where does it go from here?

 

[john7994]

We should have been informed and shot it down Jan 28. If it came from China, we knew that its path was likely to violate our air space long before Jan 28, so the Jan 28 briefing, once it officially did, was solely "go/ no go" on what to do, b/c we certainly foresaw it coming...

Yes, we have seen it coming - per the military's comments in this situation, this has actually happened before (undisclosed number of incidents) with previous administrations (undisclosed). As previous posters have already commented, it is unlikely anyone here will know the reasons for action/inaction in all these situations.

 

[goofyernmost]

We can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Right now we seem incapable of doing either of those even separately.

 

[Dan Murphy]

We should have been informed and shot it down Jan 28.

Really, Misfit? Really?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The order was given after the internet had the story from Billings...the military has confirmed no order was given on Jan 28 (the day of their noting the incursion and briefing the president) or at any time until after the world ran with the story. THAT's what bothers me.

I would hope that foreign power incursions in our air space is something that is noteworthy to tell the public - especially the whole "we have handled the issue" as you brief them, b/c these things should never happen (yes, I used to be Air Force, so this is probably big for me), and if they do, they should be handled immediately.

No nation should violate US air space.

Yeah I mean I can understand how it looks to us the public and I get it like I said it creeped me out hearing it was over my area's airspace much less the U.S. I was just responding to the timeline aspect. I know things are heavy on the diplomatic aspect though so I don't like it but can understand the delicate nature on all sides.

 

[john7994]

According to the NYT:

China decried the “excessive reaction that seriously violates international convention,” and said that it “retains the right to respond further.”​

So where does it go from here?

Mission accomplished - no matter what we did. We take action - blame the victim. If we took no action - we are weak - rinse and repeat. Continue to sow ******* in America's tribal politics - especially when China is such a hot-button issue these days and its a win win for them regardless.

 

[TwoMisfits]

Really, Misfit? Really?

Uh, yeah...we shot it down anyway. Why wait til it actually flies across 1/2 the continental US when you could shoot it down over water in Alaska before it flies over half of Canada and half of the US over a week?

As a policy, the US allows no intentional incursions to our airspace, especially over CONUS. This wasn't an incursion over a US military base in the middle east - this was over the US itself.

 

[Dan Murphy]

Why wait til it actually flies across 1/2 the continental US when you could shoot it down over water in Alaska before it flies over half of Canada and half of the US over a week?

I don't know, Misfit, I was not in on the Pentagon, CIA and other highest level briefings and decision making aspects of the past days.

 

[john7994]

Uh, yeah...we shot it down anyway. Why wait til it actually flies across 1/2 the continental US when you could shoot it down over water in Alaska before it flies over half of Canada and half of the US over a week?

As a policy, the US allows no intentional incursions to our airspace, especially over CONUS. This wasn't an incursion over a US military base in the middle east - this was over the US itself.

because in real life - people can get hurt - there is no "do-over" for precipitous actions or overt kinetic action over US civilian territory. (not that it excuses same said actions elsewhere (even in the mideast) where civilians are present) - but nonetheless - by all means - let's go full hawk and start shooting first and asking questions later ...

 

[Marrila]

because in real life - people can get hurt - there is no "do-over" for precipitous actions or overt kinetic action over US civilian territory. (not that it excuses same said actions elsewhere (even in the mideast) where civilians are present) - but nonetheless - by all means - let's go full hawk and start shooting first and asking questions later ...

This.
It's wise to for our leadership and military to act in a manner and in a time of their choosing.

 

[jo-jo]

If some other country planes fly into our airspace without permission (thinking commercial aircraft) what would happen?

I might have my tin foil hat on too tight, but I was slightly concerned it was a way to drop a plague type germ.

 

[Pink Partridge]

I might have my tin foil hat on too tight, but I was slightly concerned it was a way to drop a plague type germ.

Never say never.