SLOW ECV's at WDW

[ktate82]

One of the reasons that there are so many ECV/Pedestrian accidents at WDW is NOT speed - it's because it's not just incumbent upon the ECV driver(s) to be aware of pedestrians. Pedestrians have a certain level of responsibility to not walk directly into a moving device, or directly into the path of a moving device.

I agree with you here. I have needed an EVC the past several times we have went to Disney World. I have twice had a pedestrian walk into my EVC while I was sitting still. One was apologetic and the other looked at me like I was wrong and told me to watch where I was going. I told him that he walked into the equivalent of a parked car, so maybe he should pay attention.

 

[cobright]

Just knocking through this bit by bit...

If you know of someone who can outrun a bear, I'd like to meet them. Grizzlies can run at 25-30 MPH for over 2 miles. .

Well, as the old joke goes, you don't really need to outrun the bear. You just need to outrun some of the people who are also running from the bear. Which is more or less my point in a nutshell. Limitting ECV top speed to a slow walk ensures they will be the bear snack.

Maybe your lawyer friend should check in on that, since WDW does not force anyone to rent their ECVs so it's not an issue

The ADA complaint would come from singling out disabled people for an enforced speed restriction that goes beyond what is necessary to actually reduce any significant number of injuries.

Where do your super speedy 35 MPH ECVs actually travel? That's too fast for a sidewalk, so do they have license plates and registration to go on the road? Or do you think it's okay for them to be in with pedestrians at that speed? I find that extremely scary. Would you be legally at fault if there was an accident involving an ECV you modified?

The point I was making is that able-bodied pedestrians are capable of traveling much faster than a slow walk and we trust them not to do so on crowded pedestrian pathways.
My friend Aisling's Jazzy can easily hit 45mph. With her software tuned right it will accelerate to that speed pulling more Gs than Rock'n'Rollercoaster (5Gs). In the past 3 or so years I figure we have spent about 1000 hours together in the Disney World Parks. If I had to guess, I doubt she ever traveled faster that 11 or 12 mph in all that time. And those speeds, only for fleeting moments, a second or three at a time. Like most human beings, someone in an ECV or powerchair will spend 99.99% of their time traveling at 3-4mph.

We don't impose physical speed restraints on most humans though. We impose social norms, property rules, and legal speed limits. All of which work just as well on disabled people.

Also, a 250 lb ambulatory person can step to the side a lot faster (and in a smaller footprint) than a similar person on an ECV, so I don't agree with your comparisons.

You actually might be surprised to see this modeled out. ECVs and Powerchairs almost always have a lower center of gravity and larger traction footprint. Meaning that can come to a stop (and go from a stop to motion) in less time than a walking person of similar mass. It is uncommon for mobility devices to accelerate side to side as a walking person easily does but the laws of motion still require purchase against the tarmac and that particular advantage is best expressed at walking speeds.

Neither here nor there though as my point was not to suggest that someone in an ECV could safely travel through a crowd at high speed any more than a 250lb person could do so, but that limiting an ECV top speed to slower than a walk is going much farther than needed to balance the danger of the ECV's added mass in motion.

 

[Lilsia]

Just knocking through this bit by bit...

Well, as the old joke goes, you don't really need to outrun the bear. You just need to outrun some of the people who are also running from the bear. Which is more or less my point in a nutshell. Limitting ECV top speed to a slow walk ensures they will be the bear snack.


The ADA complaint would come from singling out disabled people for an enforced speed restriction that goes beyond what is necessary to actually reduce any significant number of injuries.


The point I was making is that able-bodied pedestrians are capable of traveling much faster than a slow walk and we trust them not to do so on crowded pedestrian pathways.
My friend Aisling's Jazzy can easily hit 45mph. With her software tuned right it will accelerate to that speed pulling more Gs than Rock'n'Rollercoaster (5Gs). In the past 3 or so years I figure we have spent about 1000 hours together in the Disney World Parks. If I had to guess, I doubt she ever traveled faster that 11 or 12 mph in all that time. And those speeds, only for fleeting moments, a second or three at a time. Like most human beings, someone in an ECV or powerchair will spend 99.99% of their time traveling at 3-4mph.

We don't impose physical speed restraints on most humans though. We impose social norms, property rules, and legal speed limits. All of which work just as well on disabled people.


You actually might be surprised to see this modeled out. ECVs and Powerchairs almost always have a lower center of gravity and larger traction footprint. Meaning that can come to a stop (and go from a stop to motion) in less time than a walking person of similar mass. It is uncommon for mobility devices to accelerate side to side as a walking person easily does but the laws of motion still require purchase against the tarmac and that particular advantage is best expressed at walking speeds.

Neither here nor there though as my point was not to suggest that someone in an ECV could safely travel through a crowd at high speed any more than a 250lb person could do so, but that limiting an ECV top speed to slower than a walk is going much farther than needed to balance the danger of the ECV's added mass in motion.

The Disney ones can probably go a bit faster, but I am not mad at them limiting the speed. I have seen way too many times someone going too fast and running into things. The worst one was a woman slammed into the back of a stroller and kept ramming it because she panicked and would not release the handle to stop it. She had no concern for the child and kept going on about how "scary" that was for HER. Let's face it, the majority of people who rent these are elderly and infirmed where their natural speed would be nowhere near the "average" walking speed that you keep bringing up. These speeds reflect their reaction time and I think this is more then fair and reasonable. And there is a huge difference between a person walking, and 250lb scooter with a person on it. You get hit by a person walking, and your most likely just fine. If you get hit by a scooter going 4-5 miles and hour, it can do some serious damage. So I say that pedestrian's safety is more important then someone getting to Dumbo a minute faster.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

The Disney ones can probably go a bit faster, but I am not mad at them limiting the speed. I have seen way too many times someone going too fast and running into things. The worst one was a woman slammed into the back of a stroller and kept ramming it because she panicked and would not release the handle to stop it. She had no concern for the child and kept going on about how "scary" that was for HER. Let's face it, the majority of people who rent these are elderly and infirmed where their natural speed would be nowhere near the "average" walking speed that you keep bringing up. These speeds reflect their reaction time and I think this is more then fair and reasonable. And there is a huge difference between a person walking, and 250lb scooter with a person on it. You get hit by a person walking, and your most likely just fine. If you get hit by a scooter going 4-5 miles and hour, it can do some serious damage. So I say that pedestrian's safety is more important then someone getting to Dumbo a minute faster.

I have used one many times at Disney and will never use one of Disney again will use offsite until the speed control is retuned to driver. I actually saw one family having to help push one of the Disney ones up a hill as it could not make it up. only person I have "hit" walked into me while I was stopped. she was busy texting on her phone as her coming so I stopped with hands off the controls. she walked into me and starts with why did you hit me. her husband grabbed her and told her she was not moving so how could she have hit you. also if I would get hit while walking even by a small child I could go down and not be able to get up. had that happen years ago at a Sea World park when I got hit from behind by a guest and falling on a child in front of me. parent of child was not happy with me and of course the person who bumped me just kept on going. what happens with scooter that is going slower than walkers when one passes one and then has to stop right in front of it still going to cause same problems and as a user I can see it happening

 

[Lilsia]

I have used one many times at Disney and will never use one of Disney again will use offsite until the speed control is retuned to driver. I actually saw one family having to help push one of the Disney ones up a hill as it could not make it up. only person I have "hit" walked into me while I was stopped. she was busy texting on her phone as her coming so I stopped with hands off the controls. she walked into me and starts with why did you hit me. her husband grabbed her and told her she was not moving so how could she have hit you. also if I would get hit while walking even by a small child I could go down and not be able to get up. had that happen years ago at a Sea World park when I got hit from behind by a guest and falling on a child in front of me. parent of child was not happy with me and of course the person who bumped me just kept on going. what happens with scooter that is going slower than walkers when one passes one and then has to stop right in front of it still going to cause same problems and as a user I can see it happening

There will always be issues with people walking into scooters and just other people in general. So many are on their phones now and not paying attention. That is inevitable. The speed of which the ECV is going does not make a difference in whether or not someone will walk into it. It is inherently more dangerous to have a faster moving vehicle, which is what an ECV is. They shouldn't have the capability to go faster then a walk. As I said, the Disney ones might be a tad too slow and probably should be given a bit more juice if they can't make it up a hill, but the ones that people rent from other companies go way too fast. We have all seen people zipping by at an unsafe speed in those things. And you can not compare a walking person with a moving vehicle. It is not the same as far as safety.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

There will always be issues with people walking into scooters and just other people in general. So many are on their phones now and not paying attention. That is inevitable. The speed of which the ECV is going does not make a difference in whether or not someone will walk into it. It is inherently more dangerous to have a faster moving vehicle, which is what an ECV is. They shouldn't have the capability to go faster then a walk. As I said, the Disney ones might be a tad too slow and probably should be given a bit more juice if they can't make it up a hill, but the ones that people rent from other companies go way too fast. We have all seen people zipping by at an unsafe speed in those things. And you can not compare a walking person with a moving vehicle. It is not the same as far as safety.

tell that to the parent of the child I fell into when bumped. parent didnt care why but was very upset that I fell into her child. I out weighed her child by over a hundred pounds. I sure didnt plan on landing on her child but when hit and fell there wasnt time to plan where I landed and as I said person who bumped me didnt even stop just kept going

 

[Lilsia]

tell that to the parent of the child I fell into when bumped. parent didnt care why but was very upset that I fell into her child. I out weighed her child by over a hundred pounds. I sure didnt plan on landing on her child but when hit and fell there wasnt time to plan where I landed and as I said person who bumped me didnt even stop just kept going

You are making no sense. You said that you were walking when hit from behind. What does that have to do with the speed of an ECV? You are obviously mad at something that has nothing to do with Disney ECVs.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

You are making no sense. You said that you were walking when hit from behind. What does that have to do with the speed of an ECV? You are obviously mad at something that has nothing to do with Disney ECVs.

I am saying it isnt always just the speed of ECV there was no ECV involved for me a person bumped me from behind and I fell on a small child. that person did not even stop and mother of child was mad at me. child was scraped up from falling forward and me landing on top. just saying slowing down speeds will not solve all the problems. and as a part time user I see more problems when ECV is slower than people walking as people will cut in front of and stop because people stop right in front and then get hit cause they are in the room left for stopping. been there and done it. I invite you to try driving one through a park at that slow of speed and see what happens

 

[Lilsia]

I am saying it isnt always just the speed of ECV there was no ECV involved for me a person bumped me from behind and I fell on a small child. that person did not even stop and mother of child was mad at me. child was scraped up from falling forward and me landing on top. just saying slowing down speeds will not solve all the problems. and as a part time user I see more problems when ECV is slower than people walking as people will cut in front of and stop because people stop right in front and then get hit cause they are in the room left for stopping. been there and done it. I invite you to try driving one through a park at that slow of speed and see what happens

Nobody said that it would "solve all the problems". But it's common sense that a slower moving ECV is a less dangerous one. No one needs to be zipping past people that are walking at a normal pace. And we all have seen people driving those way too fast. It sounds like you, and a few others, are not happy with normal walking pace and want to be able to go much faster. There had to have been some serious issues for Disney to have made the decision to slow them down. Probably a lot more issues then we realize.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

Nobody said that it would "solve all the problems". But it's common sense that a slower moving ECV is a less dangerous one. No one needs to be zipping past people that are walking at a normal pace. And we all have seen people driving those way too fast. It sounds like you, and a few others, are not happy with normal walking pace and want to be able to go much faster. There had to have been some serious issues for Disney to have made the decision to slow them down. Probably a lot more issues then we realize.

I am not happy not being able to go as fast as rest of my party is walking or having a member of party pushing so I can keep up with them or having people walking faster and cutting right in front then having stop not leaving me room to stop. then complain because they were hit. yes I stayed with another nonmember of my party who had that happen and person hit wanted driver charged. changed his tune when I said I would stay and let officer know what I had seen. and no I was not on an ECV that time

 

[Lilsia]

I am not happy not being able to go as fast as rest of my party is walking or having a member of party pushing so I can keep up with them or having people walking faster and cutting right in front then having stop not leaving me room to stop. then complain because they were hit. yes I stayed with another nonmember of my party who had that happen and person hit wanted driver charged. changed his tune when I said I would stay and let officer know what I had seen. and no I was not on an ECV that time

I don't understand what you are arguing. Nobody said that they should have to push an ECV because of lack of power. And to your second point, people walk at all different speeds. Nobody should be cutting in front of anyone, but this is something that happens in large, freeform gatherings like an amusement park. No one can make others be more mindful. If we are going down that route, then lets get rid of groups of more then 3 because they take up most of the walkway and don't let others pass. The slow walkers need to go too then because I walk at a faster rate. Pretty much everyone is saying that ECVs should go at a normal walking pace and not at a Usain Bolt speed.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

I don't understand what you are arguing. Nobody said that they should have to push an ECV because of lack of power. And to your second point, people walk at all different speeds. Nobody should be cutting in front of anyone, but this is something that happens in large, freeform gatherings like an amusement park. No one can make others be more mindful. If we are going down that route, then lets get rid of groups of more then 3 because they take up most of the walkway and don't let others pass. The slow walkers need to go too then because I walk at a faster rate. Pretty much everyone is saying that ECVs should go at a normal walking pace and not at a Usain Bolt speed.

we are just going to disagree and as I said I will stay with offsite ECVs until Disney changes this. you are not going to change my mind and as I say try riding one for a few hours at Disney and see how you feel. Been there and done it. I do not agree with going faster than others but I should be able to keep up with your fast walking without someone pushing the ECV to keep up with my party or they having to slow down to my speed.

 

[cobright]

The Disney ones can probably go a bit faster, but I am not mad at them limiting the speed. I have seen way too many times someone going too fast and running into things. The worst one was a woman slammed into the back of a stroller and kept ramming it because she panicked and would not release the handle to stop it. She had no concern for the child and kept going on about how "scary" that was for HER.

There is an interesting trick the human brain is prone to play wherein the frequency of some phenomenon is judged to occur by a person is elevated by how easy it is for that person to recall examples of that event happening. The effect is usually called "Availability Heuristic" or some variation of that theme. The result is that if something is particularly memorable (which often means shocking), people who have experienced or witnessed it are inclined to believe it happens more often that it actually does.

That sounds like a fancy way for me to tell you you're imagining things. I don't mean it like that at all. I believe you saw what you say you saw. I've seen similar accidents, and I agree that there are problem ECV drivers. But the reality is that serious injuries caused by bad ECV driving in the parks are incredibly rare considering the millions of people funneling through those parks each year. Even looking at the few injury lawsuits involving ECVs filed in the last few years, almost half of them were filed by ECV operators for injuries they sustained as the result of other people.

As for minor injuries caused by poor ECV driving? They certainly happen. I doubt Disney will ever publish an anonymized action log from their first-aid stations. I did, however, spend almost 4 hours in one a few years back when I had a reaction to the sun and decided to camp out there until it got dark so I could stay for the fireworks. It was an incredibly busy day and I heard probably a hundred people come in. Everything from nausea, to constipation (they keep prune juice in first aid!). Broken fingers, twisted ankles, cuts and scrapes. Not one of the injuries treated by the park's first-aid over the span of 1/3rd the park's opening hours that day were caused by an ECV.

And I know that one guy eavesdropping on the counter at First-Aid half a shift is not conclusive evidence. But it is the sort of experiment one would have to conduct to determine where ECV driver error falls on the list of WDW dangers.

Let's face it, the majority of people who rent these are elderly and infirmed where their natural speed would be nowhere near the "average" walking speed that you keep bringing up. These speeds reflect their reaction time and I think this is more then fair and reasonable.

The majority of WDW guests in ECVs are not elderly nor infirmed. There are plenty of day-streams in the parks on youtube to back me up. Watch an hour or two of people walking the parks and actually look at who's in the ECVs. It's mostly the 'middle aged' to 'younger retirement aged'. Usually it's someone who is ambulatory over short distances but some combination of disability and weight (often a result of disability) makes prolonged walking untenable.

And there is a huge difference between a person walking, and 250lb scooter with a person on it. You get hit by a person walking, and your most likely just fine. If you get hit by a scooter going 4-5 miles and hour, it can do some serious damage.

There is a difference between being hit at 4mph by a 300 lbs walking person and 300 lbs of ECV and driver. The force of the impact is the same. But the walking person hits you at shoulder level which will probably launch you into the pavement. The powerchair of the same mass and speed will hit you much lower, possibly causing a sprained or even broken ankle. Neither collision will end well and both should be avoided. Both of these types of accidents are also exceedingly rare. Because human beings, generally speaking, can be trusted to behave themselves.

So I say that pedestrian's safety is more important then someone getting to Dumbo a minute faster.

You are far more likely to be run into in WDW by a person using their legs. That's a fact. Should we then hobble any guest who's big enough to cause injury if they run into someone?

Nobody said that they should have to push an ECV because of lack of power.

I think this was related to the rental ECV's top speed being limited to the point where it did not have the strength to travel up an incline. Cheap ECVs like those used as rentals, often control speed by controlling the voltage sent to the motor. This means that at slower speeds, the motor also has less horsepower and would struggle to climb an inclined sidewalk or even get through a sandy spot.

Pretty much everyone is saying that ECVs should go at a normal walking pace and not at a Usain Bolt speed.

Actually, the complaint here is that Disney has limited the ECVs to much slower than a normal walking pace.

 

[Heather07438]

If people kept looking in the direction they were moving...
if only.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

There is an interesting trick the human brain is prone to play wherein the frequency of some phenomenon is judged to occur by a person is elevated by how easy it is for that person to recall examples of that event happening. The effect is usually called "Availability Heuristic" or some variation of that theme. The result is that if something is particularly memorable (which often means shocking), people who have experienced or witnessed it are inclined to believe it happens more often that it actually does.

That sounds like a fancy way for me to tell you you're imagining things. I don't mean it like that at all. I believe you saw what you say you saw. I've seen similar accidents, and I agree that there are problem ECV drivers. But the reality is that serious injuries caused by bad ECV driving in the parks are incredibly rare considering the millions of people funneling through those parks each year. Even looking at the few injury lawsuits involving ECVs filed in the last few years, almost half of them were filed by ECV operators for injuries they sustained as the result of other people.

As for minor injuries caused by poor ECV driving? They certainly happen. I doubt Disney will ever publish an anonymized action log from their first-aid stations. I did, however, spend almost 4 hours in one a few years back when I had a reaction to the sun and decided to camp out there until it got dark so I could stay for the fireworks. It was an incredibly busy day and I heard probably a hundred people come in. Everything from nausea, to constipation (they keep prune juice in first aid!). Broken fingers, twisted ankles, cuts and scrapes. Not one of the injuries treated by the park's first-aid over the span of 1/3rd the park's opening hours that day were caused by an ECV.

And I know that one guy eavesdropping on the counter at First-Aid half a shift is not conclusive evidence. But it is the sort of experiment one would have to conduct to determine where ECV driver error falls on the list of WDW dangers.


The majority of WDW guests in ECVs are not elderly nor infirmed. There are plenty of day-streams in the parks on youtube to back me up. Watch an hour or two of people walking the parks and actually look at who's in the ECVs. It's mostly the 'middle aged' to 'younger retirement aged'. Usually it's someone who is ambulatory over short distances but some combination of disability and weight (often a result of disability) makes prolonged walking untenable.


There is a difference between being hit at 4mph by a 300 lbs walking person and 300 lbs of ECV and driver. The force of the impact is the same. But the walking person hits you at shoulder level which will probably launch you into the pavement. The powerchair of the same mass and speed will hit you much lower, possibly causing a sprained or even broken ankle. Neither collision will end well and both should be avoided. Both of these types of accidents are also exceedingly rare. Because human beings, generally speaking, can be trusted to behave themselves.


You are far more likely to be run into in WDW by a person using their legs. That's a fact. Should we then hobble any guest who's big enough to cause injury if they run into someone?


I think this was related to the rental ECV's top speed being limited to the point where it did not have the strength to travel up an incline. Cheap ECVs like those used as rentals, often control speed by controlling the voltage sent to the motor. This means that at slower speeds, the motor also has less horsepower and would struggle to climb an inclined sidewalk or even get through a sandy spot.


Actually, the complaint here is that Disney has limited the ECVs to much slower than a normal walking pace.

finally someone that understands

 

[AliceIn]

I noticed a difference this last trip with far fewer incidents where we saw reckless ECV users. I think the majority of people who rent ECVs at Disney do not use them at all at home. Inexperienced users don't always understand stopping distance, or who don't realize that they need to go more slowly on ramps. Another item missing is the parade and fireworks crowd. Those are the times when ECVs need to go really slow.

My daughter got hit by a woman in an ECV and she got some scrapes and bruises from being knocked off her feet to the ground. The lady seriously misjudged the speed of people walking. We were not the only party who got hit. She didn't even stop, just sped off towards the parade.

I think Disney slowed them down to heavy crowd speed to avoid injuries. When I go for walks at home I go much faster than I do at Disney, the crowds sort of force you to reduce speed.

 

[Evita_W]

I noticed a difference this last trip with far fewer incidents where we saw reckless ECV users. I think the majority of people who rent ECVs at Disney do not use them at all at home. Inexperienced users don't always understand stopping distance, or who don't realize that they need to go more slowly on ramps. Another item missing is the parade and fireworks crowd. Those are the times when ECVs need to go really slow.

My daughter got hit by a woman in an ECV and she got some scrapes and bruises from being knocked off her feet to the ground. The lady seriously misjudged the speed of people walking. We were not the only party who got hit. She didn't even stop, just sped off towards the parade.

I think Disney slowed them down to heavy crowd speed to avoid injuries. When I go for walks at home I go much faster than I do at Disney, the crowds sort of force you to reduce speed.

The problem is if they hit you at the slower speeds, it is more likely for something to become trapped in the scooter and it do more injury to you. That isn't to say they shouldn't do anything to improve safety, there is actually a lot that can and should be done.

In the instance you describe, a cast member should have stopped the person, but more often than not what someone claims someone in an ECV ran into them, the ECV is completely stopped and the person walking didn't notice them. This is why the the theme park gray is a bad choice, it needs to be a color that will stand out. That is one of many things that can be done to help.

And they really need to do a better job at showing people how to operate them safely.

 

[DisneyOma]

You actually might be surprised to see this modeled out. ECVs and Powerchairs almost always have a lower center of gravity and larger traction footprint. Meaning that can come to a stop (and go from a stop to motion) in less time than a walking person of similar mass. It is uncommon for mobility devices to accelerate side to side as a walking person easily does but the laws of motion still require purchase against the tarmac and that particular advantage is best expressed at walking speeds.

Neither here nor there though as my point was not to suggest that someone in an ECV could safely travel through a crowd at high speed any more than a 250lb person could do so, but that limiting an ECV top speed to slower than a walk is going much farther than needed to balance the danger of the ECV's added mass in motion.

Can we test this with you as the guinea pig? BTW, I did not suggest limiting the ECV speed to slower than a walk either, just have it set/locked so it doesn't have the ability to go 45 MPH by accident.

My daughter witnessed a woman get flattened by an ECV while waiting for the parade. Operator of ECV throttled full into her. Imagine if it was going 45 MPH?

I get that making ECVs go faster is your thing in life. Do you make them so they have to be licensed vehicles because of the speeds they reach?

 

[Evita_W]

Can we test this with you as the guinea pig? BTW, I did not suggest limiting the ECV speed to slower than a walk either, just have it set/locked so it doesn't have the ability to go 45 MPH by accident.

My daughter witnessed a woman get flattened by an ECV while waiting for the parade. Operator of ECV throttled full into her. Imagine if it was going 45 MPH?

I get that making ECVs go faster is your thing in life. Do you make them so they have to be licensed vehicles because of the speeds they reach?

It depends on the local municipality, in some states/countries you do have to have a license when they can go that fast.

But if an ECV can indeed go that fast, it will have a safety mechanism to ensure that the max speed doesn't get accidentally get changed above what other ECVs are capable of (usually 10-12 mph or less), but allows an intentional change when the speed is appropriate. There aren't many of these in the U.S. so it is kind of a moot point in the U.S. parks for the most part, but they do exist and could be brought here.

DH has been on the receiving end of a slow moving scooter (about park speed scooter) hitting and it did more damage than if it had been faster because the weight spent more time on his foot due to the slow speed. Which is why I say slow doesn't always equal safer.

 

[sparky68]

we are just going to disagree and as I said I will stay with offsite ECVs until Disney changes this. you are not going to change my mind and as I say try riding one for a few hours at Disney and see how you feel. Been there and done it. I do not agree with going faster than others but I should be able to keep up with your fast walking without someone pushing the ECV to keep up with my party or they having to slow down to my speed.

Why is it so important that you be going so fast? And why is it that people seem to only be blaming the walkers for being distracted? On their phones ?
When you actually take a moment to observe videos of crowds at places like Disneyworld you see a lot of amblin' along people. The walkers are often moving slowly as they talk to each other, or keep up with the speed of small children with little legs.
Watching the behavior of people on scooters is interesting. They travel in a much different way than walkers do. They tend to have more of a focused way of getting through the park.
The difference in behavior is what causes the problems. People walking can all tell stories about the person on a scooter who blows past their group, or honks their horn to get you out the way.
There is just generally very little respect for each other happening.