Size of ECV now being enforced

[cranbiz]

Hi All,

This started this week at POR and POP. There is now a painted box at the wheelchair loading queue which is 30"X48" (which is the ADA standard). Your ECV MUST conform to those dimensions to ride the bus. http://www.access-board.gov/transit/html/Transfig1.html

If your ECV does not fit those dimensions, the driver is to call for a transportation manager who will explain alternate arrangements. I believe (but not positive) that there are a limited number of 4 wheel ECV's being made available for those who have oversized ECV's.

Also, those with wheelchairs and ECV's will be allowed the ECV and up to 5 additional members (6 total) of your party to load through the back doors, any additional members will be required to wait in the standard queue.

My understanding is that abuse of the current system made for this change.

I'll have the complete announcement (it's at home) tomorrow but wanted to get this out right away.

 

[KPeveler]

That makes sense, about the sizes. The buses are not able to handle the bigger ones.

It looks like the "Dream" ECVs are not going to happen anymore on the buses..

It is just not safe for the lifts to try to handle the big ones, and if the ECVs do not fit in the appropriate spots, then it is unsafe to tie them down.

It will be interesting to see what happens with this!

 

[Cheshire Figment]

I did a quick look at the Pride Mobility web site and all of their ECV's including the 500 pound limit Maxima, will fit in the 30x48 box. (They also show a Wrangler, but that is listed as a Personal Mobility Vehicle which will not fit; it has 13 inch tires and can do 10 MPH.)

I really hope they enfore the rider plus no more than five people limit. Also, I would like to see the drivers ask the ECV rider "How many in your party" to prevent an occasional person (or couple) from trying to get in with them.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

It's about time!

Seriously though; enforcing these very basic and clearly communicated max. size (whether it being party or aid) only makes things better for any and everybody. Having rules and not enforcing them can only lead to folks being lost about what can and can't be done, frustration and in the worst case scenario risk of danger. A for enforcing.

 

[peemagg]

I totally agree with them enforcing this. It has been needed for a long time and maybe it will make things that much easier for those of us who truely need them. It should stop a lot of the abuse by those who expect 20 to get on at one time and it should stop a lot of the nasty looks and comments by others (I hope).

 

[KPeveler]

The really big scooters (the ones bigger than ADA limits) actually kind of annoy me... They cannot fit into the buses properly, and I have been bumped in my powerchair more than once by them trying to "shimmy" into place.

There IS a size and weight limit to what the buses can handle (thinking mostly of the lift ones), and I bet when the rules are followed, there will be less of a problem with broken lifts...

 

[peemagg]

I never thought of that KPeveler, but you are probably right. Those over sized over weighted ECV's would put a great strain on the lifts.

 

[OneLittleSpark]

it should stop a lot of the nasty looks and comments by others (I hope).

Unfortunately, there will always be idiots in the world, who will think that someone else is getting a better deal than they are (yup, apparently my crippling illness is enviable! ). Hopefully, though, it will at least shut some people up *crosses fingers*. Glad to see they're enforcing this, though, thanks Cranbiz!

Also, I would like to see the drivers ask the ECV rider "How many in your party" to prevent an occasional person (or couple) from trying to get in with them.

I've not had anyone try this on the bus yet, but I have had them on rides. They always amuse me greatly

 

[lovetoscrap]

This sounds like a good thing to me. I wonder if all the off site rental ECV's conform with this (except for that Dream thing)?

Also interesting in this is that when I was there a few years ago there was a family at Pop with us and the Dad was in a "bed" type of wheelchair. He was almost completely stretched out with his head slightly elevated and his feet slightly lowered. We were on the bus with them a few times and also saw them in the parks once or twice. That would not fit within that box-- although the wheel base may have, wonder how this policy would affect them?

 

[jmartinez1895]

Also, I would like to see the drivers ask the ECV rider "How many in your party" to prevent an occasional person (or couple) from trying to get in with them.

This happend to us once, we where getting on using the lift (just 3 of us) and as we where getting into the bus the driver said something like " I'll let you all on, but you should really try and limit your group to 5 or so" I asked what he was talking about and he said that the people behind us said they where with us ( a fanily of about 8). Needless to say, they did not board in the back, but they did give us dirty looks the whole time. Oh well.
I'm glad they are starting to enforce this more.

 

[KPeveler]

This sounds like a good thing to me. I wonder if all the off site rental ECV's conform with this (except for that Dream thing)?

Also interesting in this is that when I was there a few years ago there was a family at Pop with us and the Dad was in a "bed" type of wheelchair. He was almost completely stretched out with his head slightly elevated and his feet slightly lowered. We were on the bus with them a few times and also saw them in the parks once or twice. That would not fit within that box-- although the wheel base may have, wonder how this policy would affect them?

He should not be riding the bus in that position... likely when the wheelchair is "upright" it will fit (there is almost no powerchair that will not fit), but it is very unsafe to ride in a bus with your wheelchair in a reclined position...

 

[lovetoscrap]

He should not be riding the bus in that position... likely when the wheelchair is "upright" it will fit (there is almost no powerchair that will not fit), but it is very unsafe to ride in a bus with your wheelchair in a reclined position...

This wasn't just a reclined wheelchair--it was really more of a hospital bed on a wheelchair base. I had never seen anything like it and it really looked like it may have been custom made. He was positioned up high -- he was probably almost chest high, and there was a head support and belts keeping him stable. He had a blanket on him to cover all but his chest but I did see his wife adjusting the belts on him. I never saw him move at all but his eyes were very bright and it was obvious that he was enjoying things. I definitely got the impression that this was his permanent position. It did take quite a bit of maneuvering to get him into place on the bus. I went on first with my scooter and it was tied down and then his feet were actually situated above it (my seat folds down). I had offered to wait for the next bus as we were waiting but she said we would both fit.

I didn't ask them anything about their situation, we did chat about Disney, they had 2 young boys that looked like they were having a great time!

 

[KPeveler]

This wasn't just a reclined wheelchair--it was really more of a hospital bed on a wheelchair base. I had never seen anything like it and it really looked like it may have been custom made. He was positioned up high -- he was probably almost chest high, and there was a head support and belts keeping him stable. He had a blanket on him to cover all but his chest but I did see his wife adjusting the belts on him. I never saw him move at all but his eyes were very bright and it was obvious that he was enjoying things. I definitely got the impression that this was his permanent position. It did take quite a bit of maneuvering to get him into place on the bus. I went on first with my scooter and it was tied down and then his feet were actually situated above it (my seat folds down). I had offered to wait for the next bus as we were waiting but she said we would both fit.

I didn't ask them anything about their situation, we did chat about Disney, they had 2 young boys that looked like they were having a great time!

I am not sure what they would do these days - Perhaps the chair is a special one that is actually rated for travel. I would think it would depend on the situation...

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

This wasn't just a reclined wheelchair--it was really more of a hospital bed on a wheelchair base. I had never seen anything like it and it really looked like it may have been custom made. He was positioned up high -- he was probably almost chest high, and there was a head support and belts keeping him stable. He had a blanket on him to cover all but his chest but I did see his wife adjusting the belts on him. I never saw him move at all but his eyes were very bright and it was obvious that he was enjoying things. I definitely got the impression that this was his permanent position. It did take quite a bit of maneuvering to get him into place on the bus. I went on first with my scooter and it was tied down and then his feet were actually situated above it (my seat folds down). I had offered to wait for the next bus as we were waiting but she said we would both fit.

I didn't ask them anything about their situation, we did chat about Disney, they had 2 young boys that looked like they were having a great time!

Those types of crossover between bed and chair definately are out there. Allthough not the most common (obviously) used, they are 'standard'. One could compare it to a wheelchair brand that does custom built chairs. The brand and types are widely available and are adjusted according to needs.

Having said that; they aren't safe for transportation while in/on the chair. or no let me rephrase that; they aren't safe for it according to Dutch laws. Overhere, it is one of the requirements an aid is crashtested and found safe, before it is considered safe for use during transport. As these type of aids do not pass the crashtest (amongst others) the are labeled as unsafe for use during transport*.

I can imagine safety would also be an issue within the US.



*Because this is a group with very limited mobility and we don't want to tie up ambulances when not needed, we kinda 'look the other way' when it comes to own transportation. As an individual you would be able to get car insurance and total coverage, incl. transport during use as long as it's transportation provided by ones own adapted van (obviously with a friend, family etc. as a driver). Use during transportation provided by any company or person in another vehicle -> not safe, no coverage. No transportation company will except even if they would have the means.

 

[pmdeve]

Quite often when we go to DW there are 10 to 12 of us. My husband will go with me on the back of the bus, and the rest of the family will get in the Q. We just meet up at the park, even if we don't all get on the same bus. I am glad to see they are enforcing the +5 rule.

 

[DVC-Don]

This was due. Last trip down there in January we saw some honkin big ECV's trying to load. They looked like mini motorcycle three wheelers. One of them was on our last Keys to the Kindgom tour and almost did not fit in the elevators we had to use at times.

 

[KPeveler]

This was due. Last trip down there in January we saw some honkin big ECV's trying to load. They looked like mini motorcycle three wheelers. One of them was on our last Keys to the Kindgom tour and almost did not fit in the elevators we had to use at times.

Those are probly the "dream" scooters, which are not "technically" under the ADA size limits - you have to turn the front wheel to make it fit. This makes them hard to load on buses, since they have to fit into small spots...

 

[aussietravellers]

This happend to us once, we where getting on using the lift (just 3 of us) and as we where getting into the bus the driver said something like " I'll let you all on, but you should really try and limit your group to 5 or so" I asked what he was talking about and he said that the people behind us said they where with us ( a fanily of about 8). Needless to say, they did not board in the back, but they did give us dirty looks the whole time. Oh well.
I'm glad they are starting to enforce this more.

That is terrible! I am fortunate to never have had the need for an ECV or a wheelchair and neither has anybody in my party (other than my mum a couple of days rented one in the park when her polymyalga, spelling??, was really bad on a few days one visit). I would NEVER try to attach myself to a family boarding with an EVC or Wheelchair! That really is terrible . How dare they give you dirty looks , if anybody should have been giving dirty looks it should have been you and everybody else waiting patiently in line to board the bus for doing what they did.

 

[dclfun]

I'll chime in that I'm thrilled to see some rules being laid down for safety purposes and also for limits on how many guests can board with a w/c or ECV user. I'll never forget waiting with an ECV user at POP when there was already a HUGE line of guests waiting for the bus. After both the ECV and my chair were loaded a family ran up pushing a manual chair and boarded via the ramp. They had 21 people in their party, the girl in the w/c ran up the ramp and sat down ( they folded her chair) and the family laughed at all the waiting people, saying thank goodness they had a w/c user in their Grand Gathering group. I spoke with the bus driver afterwards to say I was appalled that they were allowed to board before all the guests who were waiting and were there well before the bus arrived, unlike the huge party who took up most of the available seating.---Kathy

 

[SueM in MN]

I never thought of that KPeveler, but you are probably right. Those over sized over weighted ECV's would put a great strain on the lifts.

That is true.
The Federal Transit Authority defines a
"common wheelchair" as a mobility aid belonging to any class of three or four-wheeled devices, usable indoors, designed for and used by individuals with mobility impairments, whether operated manually or powered. A "common wheelchair" does not exceed 30 inches in width and 48 inches in length measured two inches above the ground, and does not weigh more than 600 pounds when occupied.
That website also says:
Is an electric scooter or other mobility device a common wheelchair?

If an electric scooter or other mobility device meets the physical specifications of a common wheelchair as defined by the DOT’s ADA regulations, it must be treated as a common wheelchair.

So, if it doesn't meet the definition of a "common wheelchair" listed above, there is no requirement that it be transported.

This sounds like a good thing to me. I wonder if all the off site rental ECV's conform with this (except for that Dream thing)?

Also interesting in this is that when I was there a few years ago there was a family at Pop with us and the Dad was in a "bed" type of wheelchair. He was almost completely stretched out with his head slightly elevated and his feet slightly lowered. We were on the bus with them a few times and also saw them in the parks once or twice. That would not fit within that box-- although the wheel base may have, wonder how this policy would affect them?

As for size, even though the WDW park rental ECVs look huge compared to most of the off-site rental ones, the park rental ones do meet the definition; they are only about 25 inches wide and less than 48 inches long.

Those are probly the "dream" scooters, which are not "technically" under the ADA size limits - you have to turn the front wheel to make it fit. This makes them hard to load on buses, since they have to fit into small spots...

The company that makes the ECV rented as the Dream used to say on their website that it was ideal for bus or other public transportation. They recently re-wrote their website and there is no mention of using it on buses or any other tranportation. It is also called a "heavy duty outdoor electric scooter."
The website says they are 58 inches long (although apparently, the company renting them at WDW says they have modified them to make them shorter). They still only fit in the lift/on the bus with the wheel turned.

That is terrible! I am fortunate to never have had the need for an ECV or a wheelchair and neither has anybody in my party (other than my mum a couple of days rented one in the park when her polymyalga, spelling??, was really bad on a few days one visit). I would NEVER try to attach myself to a family boarding with an EVC or Wheelchair! That really is terrible . How dare they give you dirty looks , if anybody should have been giving dirty looks it should have been you and everybody else waiting patiently in line to board the bus for doing what they did.

Despite many people posting that they have seen 'huge' parties boarding with ECV or wheelchair users, I don't think that is the norm.
I do know that most of the regular posters here have only a few people board with them most of the time (the most we have had was 5 - but that was when my 80+ yr old mom and 80+ yr old MIL were with us). And, I know that my family and many other posters have had other guests try to attach themselves to a wheelchair/ECV party.

The limit will keep the 'joiners' from adding on, but may not help with the other guests who don't see why there needs to be more than one person boarding with the guest who is disabled.