Six Flags and Cedar Fair complete merger

[Brian Noble]

However, I think they are still very concerned about noise levels affecting nearby residents. But most of the homes in the area are on the other side of a berm, except for a few homes at the top of the bem overlooking the lake.

Fun fact: the impulse shuttle there was originally built above the height limit imposed on the park. In its first offseason, they "bent" the back spike from 90' to 45', and shortened the front spike with the holding brake.

https://rcdb.com/1143.htm

 

[Brian Noble]

I'll be visiting CA Great America next week for what might be my last visit before they close. Looking forward to Gold Striker.

 

[MillauFr]

And even now, the park has to close when there are 49ers home games because the GA parking lot is needed for game attendees. Although, the park isn't open every day anyway, so by the time football season starts they're kind of winding down the summer schedule.

Anyway, the City of Santa Clara (whose actions regarding the building of Levi's Stadium are the subject of much dispute among residents) is desperate for the higher revenues it will get from higher-density development on that land.

Yes it makes no sense to have an amusement park or even a massive surface parking lot on property that is worth 10s of millions of dollars per acre. Why wouldn't someone redevelop that land? You could have 40 story condos on those parcels.

 

[MillauFr]

I don't understand how the article says the combined company is only worth $8 billion. The land alone for the 4 California parks is worth several billion.

 

[bcla]

I don't understand how the article says the combined company is only worth $8 billion. The land alone for the 4 California parks is worth several billion.

The Great America property was already sold. Not sure about the Magic Mountain land being worth that much, just because of its zoning. I'm thinking the land in Vallejo might not be worth that much with zoning issues there. And they aren't the actual owners of the waterpark in Concord, California. They're just an operator. Six Flags' predecessor company actually built it, but it was sold a while ago.

 

[bcla]

Yes it makes no sense to have an amusement park or even a massive surface parking lot on property that is worth 10s of millions of dollars per acre. Why wouldn't someone redevelop that land? You could have 40 story condos on those parcels.

I remember the history in the 80s when Marriott wanted to sell to developers who would tear it down to build office parks. They were worried about traffic and the city nixed the deal and ended up buying the park. But that was well before there was a freeway nearby. Back then CA-237 wasn't quite a freeway (and wasn't until the 90s).

 

[barkley]

The City of Vallejo certainly isn't trying to restrict the one business they have that clearly brings in revenue. Losing the park would completely destroy their city budget. They have absolutely worked hard over the years to keep the park going. When they moved, they were operated by a nonprofit foundation that was supposed to be about education. The city took ownership when the foundation couldn't pay back their loans. It was under city ownership when they started installing thrill rides. I remember there was a ton of controversy over it, with claims that the noise would create a negative impact on the animals.

However, I think they are still very concerned about noise levels affecting nearby residents. But most of the homes in the area are on the other side of a berm, except for a few homes at the top of the bem overlooking the lake.

I had a membership (no longer though) at the time of COVID, and they had what they called "The Marine World Experience" where they justified keeping it open for the animal exhibits as a "zoo and/or acquarium". We went there regularly, especially since our meal plan was still in effect. They also gave an extra month membership for each month still paid that would kick in when formally cancelling the membership.

it's vital for vallejo for sure but there were concessions made to those home owners back when the park was being built-operational hour restrictions, firework restrictions (though that may not be an issue with the advent of drone displays) and a handful of others. they also have to balance keeping the park happy but not showing unfair code enforcement. they enforced the city's construction height restriction against the park when they violated it with one of their coasters some years back. seems these days it's whichever park has the biggest and best coasters that draw the crowds-unless the city revises it's entire building code there's no ability to go bigger. the city of vallejo denies it fervently but there have been rumored negotiations dating back to 2021 to move the park to fresno.

 

[MillauFr]

The Great America property was already sold. Not sure about the Magic Mountain land being worth that much, just because of its zoning. I'm thinking the land in Vallejo might not be worth that much with zoning issues there. And they aren't the actual owners of the waterpark in Concord, California. They're just an operator. Six Flags' predecessor company actually built it, but it was sold a while ago.

Did they own all of those massive surface parking lots? What a complete waste of space. You have a housing crisis in California and you build a surface parking lot on property that is some of the most valuable on the planet? How is that the highest and best use?

 

[irlandaise]

Yes it makes no sense to have an amusement park or even a massive surface parking lot on property that is worth 10s of millions of dollars per acre. Why wouldn't someone redevelop that land? You could have 40 story condos on those parcels.

It's interesting that according to the Prologis website, their specialty is industrial warehouses. There are other developments proposed around Great America that would be mixed use (residential/office/retail). It will be interesting to see whether Prologis only does a warehouse.

 

[irlandaise]

Did they own all of those massive surface parking lots? What a complete waste of space. You have a housing crisis in California and you build a surface parking lot on property that is some of the most valuable on the planet? How is that the highest and best use?

Well, to be fair Marriott's Great America opened in 1976. For reference, that's just when Apple was getting started. The companies that were in that neighborhood at the time, such as ROLM, had one-story buildings and surface parking lots. Silicon Valley as we know it didn't exist then, and that area was on the outskirts of where the real action was.

 

[bcla]

Did they own all of those massive surface parking lots? What a complete waste of space. You have a housing crisis in California and you build a surface parking lot on property that is some of the most valuable on the planet? How is that the highest and best use?

That's not the big parking lot in the area in Vallejo. That would be the Solano County Fairground next door. That lot got even bigger after the racetrack was removed. When we had a Six Flags membership, we watched fireworks from there a few times around the 4th of July.

The problem with building more housing is NIMBYism - mostly about traffic.

 

[bcla]

Well, to be fair Marriott's Great America opened in 1976. For reference, that's just when Apple was getting started. The companies that were in that neighborhood at the time, such as ROLM, had one-story buildings and surface parking lots. Silicon Valley as we know it didn't exist then, and that area was on the outskirts of where the real action was.

Silicon Valley has always been decentralized. In the 70s it was pockets here or there of tech companies. Maybe Hewlett-Packard in Palo Alto, Intel in Santa Clara, Fairchild in Santa Clara, etc. Some established companies set up shop early, like IBM in the southern part of San Jose.

I remember visiting Great America as a kid in maybe 1977. It was kind of sparse with quite a bit of undeveloped land at the time.

I think Great America also had the advantage of being near a major rollercoaster maker. Arrow Development (a huge developer for Disney rides) was in Mountain View and they made several of their coasters.

 

[tvguy]

I had a membership (no longer though) at the time of COVID, and they had what they called "The Marine World Experience" where they justified keeping it open for the animal exhibits as a "zoo and/or acquarium". We went there regularly, especially since our meal plan was still in effect. They also gave an extra month membership for each month still paid that would kick in when formally cancelling the membership.

We stopped going long before covid because so many of the animal attractions were gone. Like 20-25 years ago. What animal attractions do they still have? They used to be VERY aggressive in marketing with the Sacramento TV stations. They would bring an animal and caretaker to be on our Noon news every Wednesday. And animals, being animals, would do funny things. We had a lion in studio who had no interest in anything but the carpet on the riser on the set, which was also used for cooking segments so the carpet was saturated with food smells. Or a seal they brought up to the newsroom before the segment, and it left a smelly gift outside the Assistant News Director's office. That prompted a still famous "No Animals In the Newsroom" memo from that manager.

 

[irlandaise]

Silicon Valley has always been decentralized. In the 70s it was pockets here or there of tech companies. Maybe Hewlett-Packard in Palo Alto, Intel in Santa Clara, Fairchild in Santa Clara, etc. Some established companies set up shop early, like IBM in the southern part of San Jose.

Right, but most of those were in or near more developed areas. (Obviously not the IBM Santa Teresa campus.) I was addressing the comment about GA taking up so much surface area where real estate is so valuable. The 237/Tasman/GA Pkwy area wasn't that valuable in 1976. It was off in the mudflats. Same reason there are also many 1970s mobile home parks north of 101. It was not a particularly valuable area 50 years ago.

Anyway...as you mentioned previously, there is a wide timeline within which the new owner of the GA property can say they're closing down the park, so it will be interesting to see what happens. Your initial response about GA is the most important: whatever any individuals may want, not only is GA not going to be spiffed up, it's on the way out.

 

[tvguy]

Silicon Valley has always been decentralized. In the 70s it was pockets here or there of tech companies. Maybe Hewlett-Packard in Palo Alto, Intel in Santa Clara, Fairchild in Santa Clara, etc. Some established companies set up shop early, like IBM in the southern part of San Jose.

I remember visiting Great America as a kid in maybe 1977. It was kind of sparse with quite a bit of undeveloped land at the time.

I think Great America also had the advantage of being near a major rollercoaster maker. Arrow Development (a huge developer for Disney rides) was in Mountain View and they made several of their coasters.

My wife was a big fan of Great America, thinking of it as being very much like Disneyland. But that was before she met me. She took me once, I wasn't impressed. The first time she went to Disneyland with me, she was overwhelmed. Apparently her dad would take her to Disneyland about 10 am, and leave at 6 pm. I knew something was up when she asked why they always show fireworks in news stories about Disneyland. She had NEVER seen them. First trip with me was 1984. We were in the park at 630 am with early admission, and there until 1am....back when Disneyland stayed open that late.

 

[bcla]

Right, but most of those were in or near more developed areas. (Obviously not the IBM Santa Teresa campus.) I was addressing the comment about GA taking up so much surface area where real estate is so valuable. The 237/Tasman/GA Pkwy area wasn't that valuable in 1976. It was off in the mudflats. Same reason there are also many 1970s mobile home parks north of 101. It was not a particularly valuable area 50 years ago.

Anyway...as you mentioned previously, there is a wide timeline within which the new owner of the GA property can say they're closing down the park, so it will be interesting to see what happens. Your initial response about GA is the most important: whatever any individuals may want, not only is GA not going to be spiffed up, it's on the way out.

But again, I remember the whole controvery over it in 1983 when Marriott attempted to sell it. Apparently the land was worth about $1 million an acre even back then. Of course these days that corridor is heavily developed, although there are some oddball parts such as the golf course across the street.

 

[bcla]

My wife was a big fan of Great America, thinking of it as being very much like Disneyland. But that was before she met me. She took me once, I wasn't impressed. The first time she went to Disneyland with me, she was overwhelmed. Apparently her dad would take her to Disneyland about 10 am, and leave at 6 pm. I knew something was up when she asked why they always show fireworks in news stories about Disneyland. She had NEVER seen them. First trip with me was 1984. We were in the park at 630 am with early admission, and there until 1am....back when Disneyland stayed open that late.

Great America was state of the art when it opened, with top of the line rides. And I remember it was very, very clean. It had a an aeriel skyway very similar to what Disneyland had. They even had a real steam-powered railway and a dolphin show.

 

[bcla]

We stopped going long before covid because so many of the animal attractions were gone. Like 20-25 years ago. What animal attractions do they still have? They used to be VERY aggressive in marketing with the Sacramento TV stations. They would bring an animal and caretaker to be on our Noon news every Wednesday. And animals, being animals, would do funny things. We had a lion in studio who had no interest in anything but the carpet on the riser on the set, which was also used for cooking segments so the carpet was saturated with food smells. Or a seal they brought up to the newsroom before the segment, and it left a smelly gift outside the Assistant News Director's office. That prompted a still famous "No Animals In the Newsroom" memo from that manager.

I think the last time I was there was in 2021. I enjoyed it, but after a while we'd been on the rides so many times. Even with the meal plan being so cheap (about $7 per person per month) it got kind of tiring eating amusement park food all the time. But the meal plan paid for itself rather quickly. I think I know why they stopped issuing new memberships with the meals.

But yeah they still have the animals. Not necessarily the feature, but they still have seals and sea lions, as well as an animal show with different ones. Also a tiger show. They also have more or less a small zoo. Was wondering what happened to the dolphins. Apparently no more regular show, but they still have the dolphins in a different habitat as well as paid dolphin experiences. Found an explanation. They had a walrus there once. Not sure all the details, but the one I remember was gone and another one replaced it but died.

They used to have orcas, but they had some controversy when one died. I think they had one maybe a decade ago but ship that one to SeaWorld in San Diego.

Strangely enough I decided to fire up the Six Flags app (had to reload it) to see more about what they still have. I stopped paying for the membership, but it's got some weird programming bugs. Says that my membership is active until Dec 31, 2100. Tried to update and it looks like the new version lost all my old info (memberships are probably not a thing any more) and it wants a pass uploaded for more info.

 

[tvguy]

I think the last time I was there was in 2021. I enjoyed it, but after a while we'd been on the rides so many times. Even with the meal plan being so cheap (about $7 per person per month) it got kind of tiring eating amusement park food all the time. But the meal plan paid for itself rather quickly. I think I know why they stopped issuing new memberships with the meals.

But yeah they still have the animals. Not necessarily the feature, but they still have seals and sea lions, as well as an animal show with different ones. Also a tiger show. They also have more or less a small zoo. Was wondering what happened to the dolphins. Apparently no more regular show, but they still have the dolphins in a different habitat as well as paid dolphin experiences. Found an explanation. They had a walrus there once. Not sure all the details, but the one I remember was gone and another one replaced it but died.

They used to have orcas, but they had some controversy when one died. I think they had one maybe a decade ago but ship that one to SeaWorld in San Diego.

Strangely enough I decided to fire up the Six Flags app (had to reload it) to see more about what they still have. I stopped paying for the membership, but it's got some weird programming bugs. Says that my membership is active until Dec 31, 2100. Tried to update and it looks like the new version lost all my old info (memberships are probably not a thing any more) and it wants a pass uploaded for more info.

Seems like when the city of Vallejo took ownership in late 1996 was when they added the trill rides, and moved away from the animals. That would be about the right time frame as my kids were 5 and 9 then, and within a few years there was little reason for us to go there. My son went a few times in high school with friends, but I don't think we went as a family after about 2000. I have some great pictures of my trip to the OLD location in Redwood City in the 1960's.

 

[MillauFr]

That's not the big parking lot in the area in Vallejo. That would be the Solano County Fairground next door. That lot got even bigger after the racetrack was removed. When we had a Six Flags membership, we watched fireworks from there a few times around the 4th of July.

The problem with building more housing is NIMBYism - mostly about traffic.

Traffic congestion could be eliminated with variable tolling on all roadways.