Since RCI inception I see points renting for less than $7 on Rental Sights

[icydog]

Yes, for less than our maintenance fees. I've seen several weeks, not five nights, renting at the Beach Club for less than $7 a point on Redweek. Don't you think that devalues our ownerships? I do!!!!!!!!

These are points that have been exchanged by RCI owners using Disney's new affiliation with them. Then instead of using the weeks themselves these exchangers turn around and rent these valuable weeks out for less than our cost to own them.

 

[alice99]

Yes, this devalues our DVC memberships.

This has been rehashed many times on the boards already.

Yes, it makes me angry, but we are powerless to do anything about it....
unless someone out there knows of some rule the renters are violating.

 

[icydog]

The Rule They Are Breaking Is RCI Doesn't Allow Exchanged Weeks To Be Rented Out. if Someone Rents A Week From An Exchanger They Risk The Chance That Disney Will Not Honor The Exchange. It's Up To Dvc To Monitor This. RCI Will Not Allow Their Exchangers To Get Away With This If DVC Makes A Stink.

 

[ldo]

Both RCI and II prohibit rentals of TS exchanged into thru them. Now, do some daring and unscrupulous RCI/II members trade and try to rent--I'm sure. This takes away from a legitimate RCI exchanger who would want to stay at DVC.
Hopefully, as RCI members learn about DVC, more wil put in ongoing searches and use DVCs for their own use. Makes me mad too! Elaine--in the meantime, I would report redweek/ebay ads to RCI and try to have RCI shut them down.

 

[littlestar]

Wow, icydog. I just took a look at Redweek and somebody is offering August through September BCV exchanges for rent (laughter). That's amazing. There must be a lot of DVC inventory available for BCV via RCI. They even list the $95.00 fee at check-in so you know it has to be exchange weeks. That's really too bad because there's probably lots of legitimate RCI exchangers who would love to exchange into BCV and actually stay there instead of trying to make money on it - laughter.

Speaking of Redweek - on the way to the Orlando airport yesterday we saw a big billboard sign advertising Redweek.

 

[Brian Noble]

I was gonig to ask how you knew that it was an exchange, but the $95 fee seals the deal, for sure. Definitely point DVC and RCI at the ad. RCI will pull the exchange (and possibly the account) if they can figure out who it is.

Interval used to do the same thing when folks blatantly rented out exchanges there either. No difference, really.

 

[tomandrobin]

I just recently shut down a renter on another site, blatantly renting RCI weeks for $9 per point. He even had the nerve to list the daily RCI sightings so you can choose the resort and week that was available for that day.

Takes away from the exchange pool and undermines real owners.

On another note, RCI gets a lot more weeks to exchange then II ever had on the exchange board.

 

[icydog]

I have to say when II was the exchange company there was hardly any of this on Redweek. NOW it is blatant and I am sick of it. If someone makes an exchange to DVC it is expected they go there. DVC is looking for a new pool to sell timeshares to. With these ridiculous rentals out there their pool will be one of people who can't afford to pay for our high maintenance fees. They, DVC, will lose out as well with this kindda thing happening.

 

[JimMIA]

Although I'd like to see DVC and RCI stop this inappropriate renting, I don't think it devalues my membership. If I were a frequent renter of points, it certainly would hurt my market and force me to accept lower prices, but I don't rent.

These rentals actually devalue the memberships of the honest RCI members who can't get legitimate exchanges because other members are making (and RCI/DVC are enabling) bogus ressies to rent to non-RCI members.

 

[icydog]

Although I'd like to see DVC and RCI stop this inappropriate renting, I don't think it devalues my membership. If I were a frequent renter of points, it certainly would hurt my market and force me to accept lower prices, but I don't rent.

These rentals actually devalue the memberships of the honest RCI members who can't get legitimate exchanges because other members are making (and RCI/DVC are enabling) bogus ressies to rent to non-RCI members.

It devalues your memberships in several ways
1. you are paying high maintenance fees and Disney, DVC, is giving those weeks to RCI who in turn exchanges them for less than 1/8 of our membership fees
2. you are paying for someone who has no interest in DVC to use your villas. They have no reason to keep them nice. They have no ownership interest
3. your points are worth less now than before this happened. Why would I buy DVC if I can buy a cheap RCI resort and trade in for a complete week for a fraction of the cost. I would be crazy to pay DVC their high fees only to have them give the weeks to others for so much less
4. there is no accountability for these weeks. Non owners do not pay toward our refurbishments,our pools or anything that makes our resorts so special
5. non owners are making a killing at our expense. They are renting our points out to other non owners for a big profit, which it seems is not what Disney had in mind when they joined RCI
6. if you did rent your points out, as you so cavelierly dismiss those that do, you have a right to charge a fair price to cover your costs. These renters are the subprime of DVC rentals. They are renting high cost weeks for pennies on the dollar to those that can not afford to maintain DVC if, indeed, they owned a DVC contract.

 

[BostonDisneyKid]

I agree with Jim...

Originally Posted by JimMIA
Although I'd like to see DVC and RCI stop this inappropriate renting, I don't think it devalues my membership. If I were a frequent renter of points, it certainly would hurt my market and force me to accept lower prices, but I don't rent.

 

[JimMIA]

It devalues your memberships in several ways
1. you are paying high maintenance fees and Disney, DVC, is giving those weeks to RCI who in turn exchanges them for less than 1/8 of our membership fees

DVC is not giving anything to anyone! DVC members are exchanging their points for RCI vacations as a benefit of their DVC membership. That ability to exchange out is supposedly one of the major selling points of DVC...although I'm sure it is greatly overrated in many cases.

I also don't know where you get "1/8 of our membership fees." If they are renting for $7 per point, are you saying your dues are $56 per point??? I don't know where you own, but my dues are a LOT less than that!

And even if we accept the 1/8 calculation -- $7 = 1/8 -- then what is a rental at $10 per point? Isn't it about 1/6 by that same math? Isn't $11 per point 1/5 by that math? 1/8...1/5...how big a difference is that really in dollars?

2. you are paying for someone who has no interest in DVC to use your villas. They have no reason to keep them nice. They have no ownership interest
3. your points are worth less now than before this happened. Why would I buy DVC if I can buy a cheap RCI resort and trade in for a complete week for a fraction of the cost. I would be crazy to pay DVC their high fees only to have them give the weeks to others for so much less
4. there is no accountability for these weeks. Non owners do not pay toward our refurbishments,our pools or anything that makes our resorts so special
5. non owners are making a killing at our expense. They are renting our points out to other non owners for a big profit, which it seems is not what Disney had in mind when they joined RCI

Naw...I'm paying my dues to maintain a property in which I have a miniscule ownership, and if I exchange out, those dues are effectively going to rent my RCI vacation.

In addition, everything you say about these no-good RCI renters is precisely the same as what anyone could say about folks who rent points from you. The only difference is, if your renters trash the place it's your personal responsibility, whereas the exchagers would be DVC's responsibility. I'm not terribly worried about either scenario, because I don't think renters or any other kind of guest has actually been a consistent problem in terms of their respect for the villas they occupy.

6. if you did rent your points out, as you so cavelierly dismiss those that do, you have a right to charge a fair price to cover your costs. These renters are the subprime of DVC rentals. They are renting high cost weeks for pennies on the dollar to those that can not afford to maintain DVC if, indeed, they owned a DVC contract.

First of all, I don't care if people rent their points...as long as they do it legitimately, which I'm sure you do. I don't like the speculative reservations for rental purposes, and this RCI issue you speak of is exactly that. Speculative ressies, whether through RCI or regular membership, hurt all of us.

In fact, rather than being anti-renting, I think it's important that we keep the ability to rent our points. It's an important benefit of DVC even if I don't currently choose to take advantage of it. I may want to rent somewhere down the road.

 

[littlestar]

I've often wondered why the name brands - Disney, Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt, Westin, Sheraton, the Royals in Cancun, etc., haven't formed some kind of mini system between themselves to protect their brands a little better.

I know when I exchange into Orlando, my top picks would be Marriott, Disney, Hilton, or Sheraton.

 

[Brian Noble]

I'd like to see DVC and RCI stop this inappropriate renting

You should certainly feel free to forward any such ads to both companies. RCI in particular has been known to take a very hard line on this question, even well before DVC switched back from II.

I've often wondered why the name brands...haven't formed some kind of mini system between themselves

Dean has long advocated for this as well. Realistically, I don't think most of them really care. True, folks who can get easy exchnages might be less willing to buy. But, on the other side of the ledger, inbounds generally have a pretty good tour/sales conversion rate, because they don't need to be sold on the idea of timeshares generally, just the host resort in particular.

 

[littlestar]

True, folks who can get easy exchnages might be less willing to buy. But, on the other side of the ledger, inbounds generally have a pretty good tour/sales conversion rate, because they don't need to be sold on the idea of timeshares generally, just the host resort in particular.

I never thought about that, but I bet you're right. If they fall in love with the resort after a wonderful stay, they may buy. There was a lady over on the tug boards recently who absolutely fell in love with BCV after an exchange there. She PM'd me about BCV and was asking about Disney's prices and resale prices and thoughts on the vacation club.

 

[gkrykewy]

DVC is not giving anything to anyone! DVC members are exchanging their points for RCI vacations as a benefit of their DVC membership.

In theory this is true, but I wonder. It seems like there is an awful lot of RCI-related availability that has appeared in a very short period of time (for example, the thread about the large number of cash weeks available for government employees through that RCI-affiliated site). Have an equivalent number of DVC members really made RCI exchanges over the same timeframe?

 

[RobDoc]

I have to say when II was the exchange company there was hardly any of this on Redweek. NOW it is blatant and I am sick of it. If someone makes an exchange to DVC it is expected they go there. DVC is looking for a new pool to sell timeshares to. With these ridiculous rentals out there their pool will be one of people who can't afford to pay for our high maintenance fees. They, DVC, will lose out as well with this kindda thing happening.

Exchangers have been actively trying to rent these DVC trades for years and it is not unique to the RCI program. There were many trying to rent II exchanges on the DIS Rent/Trade Board as well as on eBay and Redweek, so it is not a new issue by any means. Many of those renting the II/DVC exchanges were also DVC members, including some active on the DIS DVC boards. Some have been fairly easy to identify and stop on our board and others have been more difficult to spot and remove.

 

[Starr W.]

In theory this is true, but I wonder. It seems like there is an awful lot of RCI-related availability that has appeared in a very short period of time (for example, the thread about the large number of cash weeks available for government employees through that RCI-affiliated site). Have an equivalent number of DVC members really made RCI exchanges over the same timeframe?

Remember a lot of new buyers were given developer points that could either be used at SSR or deposited into RCI.

For some of the buyers of GCV, depositing may have been a better option that making a cross country trip to WDW to use the DP's.

Someone nabbed a 1br at Ka'anapali Beach Club for June and with a DP deposit and was commenting on the fact the pool there is being refurbed and wouldn't be open when they were heading out.

There was quite a big uptick in inventory that you could see in II back in the day when developer points were offered.

 

[Starr W.]

Exchangers have been actively trying to rent these DVC trades for years and it is not unique to the RCI program. There were many trying to rent II exchanges on the DIS Rent/Trade Board as well as on eBay and Redweek, so it is not a new issue by any means. Many of those renting the II/DVC exchanges were also DVC members, including some active on the DIS DVC boards. Some have been fairly easy to identify and stop on our board and others have been more difficult to spot and remove.

Someone noticed on ebay that a guy was renting out II weeks from the Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort. I know there are more than a few people that have probably notified II to the guy's ad on ebay.

So it's not really something exclusive to DVC or one exchange company.

 

[Brian Noble]

It seems like there is an awful lot of RCI-related availability that has appeared in a very short period of time (for example, the thread about the large number of cash weeks available for government employees through that RCI-affiliated site).

If you followed that thread to the end, it turned out there wasn't actually any availability on getoptravel---just the resorts listed in error.

There are plenty of cash weeks at RCI, but they are clearly developer inventory (you use CRO/WDTC's web site to book Magical Express, rather than call Member Services) and they are at a very modest discount off of rack rate.

That leaves the exchange pool, which is certainly deeper than it was with II, but there are several possible reasons for that.

* Rank and file RCI members are still learning that DVC has affiliated (surprisingly, many timeshare owners don't obsessively read discussion boards about timeshare ) so the full level of steady-state demand has not yet materialized.
* It appears that you need a "stronger week" in RCI than you did in II, reducing demand artificially.
* New limitations on developer points (shorter use window; SSR, DL, or RCI only) and the overall depression of the points rental market are likely to be pushing more owners to deposit, increasing supply.

It's also possible that RCI has better availability for Members who wish to exchange out, resulting in more requests being satisfied, but I don't have any data on that one way or the other. Based on my own searches in II and RCI, though, I suspect it is true.