Significant Increase in Annual Dues Proposed

[DaveNan]

I looked at my home resorts (AKL, SSR, BWV) under My Membership/Condo Association News/Meeting Notice and information and you can see the broken down detail on the costs. Seems like Housekeeping & security were biggest hit?

Specific for BWV
2017 2018 %
Housekeeping 1.0977 1.3176 1.20
Admin front desk .6891 .7804 1.13
Maintenance .7587 .7346 .968
Manage fee .4973 .5521 1.11
Transport .4104 .4479 1.09
Security .0768 .1004 1.30

other..
Total 4.1578 4.6265 1.11
Cap reserve 1.066 1.17 1.1
Tax not in the reports

So with Housekeeping and security hit the most, are we paying for the daily trash and room check being done by housekeeping and security now?

 

[Buzzsgramma]

Okay I know we could sell..so please don't tell me that....it's a big jump and what will happen next year...we are retired and have owned since 2000 at BW...300 pts...i budget all our expenses..if different things increase too much I look for new deals or cancel contracts....phones, garbage, any services..
We take our kids and adult grand kids every year....we are scheduled for Jan 2019...for some of them and us....With all the increase in expenses at WDW I had already decided we wouldn't be back till spring of 2020...for SW....
I will cut where I can in order to keep these contracts.....WE aLL love Disney ...sorry for rambling...

 

[disneynutz]

This is just a guess but when Lewis left DVD/DVC/DVCMC weren't the dues adjusted when Potrock took over and now Potrock has moved on and we have a new SVP over DVD/DVC/DVCMC and we have another increase. Could it be that the new management has found that the budget was out of whack?

Bill

 

[Henwen88]

I looked at my home resorts (AKL, SSR, BWV) under My Membership/Condo Association News/Meeting Notice and information and you can see the broken down detail on the costs. Seems like Housekeeping & security were biggest hit?

Specific for BWV
2017 2018 %
Housekeeping 1.0977 1.3176 1.20
Admin front desk .6891 .7804 1.13
Maintenance .7587 .7346 .968
Manage fee .4973 .5521 1.11
Transport .4104 .4479 1.09
Security .0768 .1004 1.30

other..
Total 4.1578 4.6265 1.11
Cap reserve 1.066 1.17 1.1
Tax not in the reports

So with Housekeeping and security hit the most, are we paying for the daily trash and room check being done by housekeeping and security now?

You know, I really didn't have a problem with the 'security checks' aka daily trash service. Have read several reports of people being bothered or even barged in on while sleeping, but personally I have never had an issue. But if I am having to subsidize this nonsense in our dues, I am now incredibly aggravated. I can walk my own trash out just fine. I bought a time share knowing (and happy) that there would be minimal housekeeping for the sake of cost savings.

 

[crisi]

You know, I really didn't have a problem with the 'security checks' aka daily trash service. Have read several reports of people being bothered or even barged in on while sleeping, but personally I have never had an issue. But if I am having to subsidize this nonsense in our dues, I am now incredibly aggravated. I can walk my own trash out just fine. I bought a time share knowing (and happy) that there would be minimal housekeeping for the sake of cost savings.

We all know it isn't about trash - and you can't check your neighbor to make sure he didn't bring in a bomb. And frankly, I don't trust you not to bring in a small armory. I don't know you. This is our reality.

 

[Henwen88]

We all know it isn't about trash - and you can't check your neighbor to make sure he didn't bring in a bomb. And frankly, I don't trust you not to bring in a small armory. I don't know you. This is our reality.

I agree. Wish Disney would just come out and say it. I don't really care how they spin it - guest safety, comfort, peace of mind, whatever... as long as they are paying for it. Their fear of getting sued does not equal my need for daily 'housekeeping.'

 

[rg35]

I still just disagree. I appreciate your points, but I think good management does not allow for erratic jumps.

If there was a sudden increase in costs, then it's appropriate for them to raise dues by the amount required to cover those expenses. What would your proposed alternative be in this case? That they should have raised dues by some arbitrary amount last year instead, even though a large increase wasn't required in order to cover budgeted expenses for the year?

Bad management would be not raising dues by enough to cover expenses this year and getting into a deficit situation, requiring even higher increases next year or special assessments to cover the deficit.

I live in a co-op and I am seeing this at home as well. Our co-op is well managed, but our real estate taxes, water expenses, staff salaries, etc., have all been going up. Our common charges have been increased the appropriate amount to cover those increases. On years when there is no need for increases, our fees are not increased. Sudden increases due to factors outside managment's control is not bad management.

 

[jarestel]

Regarding CCV housekeeping cost components...
The 2019 budget allocates about 1.8 times more dollars to housekeeping than the 2018 budget. The base cost per point didn't change (1.1692) but the number of points paying into housekeeping increased from 1,794,888 to 3,249,085. For sold out resorts, the points are relatively stable from year to year, so it's not really an apples to apples comparison with new resorts that are not sold out. The 2020 housekeeping budget should be more comparable to existing sold out properties.

 

[crisi]

I agree. Wish Disney would just come out and say it. I don't really care how they spin it - guest safety, comfort, peace of mind, whatever... as long as they are paying for it. Their fear of getting sued does not equal my need for daily 'housekeeping.'

But operating expenses and our safety is our responsibility. We agreed to that when we bought into a timeshare. If you want Disney to pay for it, book a CRO room - of course, you will still pay for it in markups, because Disney isn't a charity.

 

[zavandor]

Regarding CCV housekeeping cost components...
The 2019 budget allocates about 1.8 times more dollars to housekeeping than the 2018 budget. The base cost per point didn't change (1.1692) but the number of points paying into housekeeping increased from 1,794,888 to 3,249,085. For sold out resorts, the points are relatively stable from year to year, so it's not really an apples to apples comparison with new resorts that are not sold out. The 2020 housekeeping budget should be more comparable to existing sold out properties.

Not sure to.get your point. All points at CCV pay MF, for sold points owners pay them, for the rest Disney pay them.

 

[jarestel]

Not sure to.get your point. All points at CCV pay MF, for sold points owners pay them, for the rest Disney pay them.

A comparison of the 2018 and 2019 budgets would seem to refute this by simply dividing the total budgeted expense by the cost per point which should give you the number of points used in the budget calculations.

Edited to add: Only the units that are declared into the "club" are paid for by members. It's true that someone else pays for the undeclared units but not through the dues system.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Not sure to.get your point. All points at CCV pay MF, for sold points owners pay them, for the rest Disney pay them.

I agree, those numbers put out by Disney are misleading. If it were the case that Disney did not "pay" for the maintenance fees on the unsold points, then initial buyers would be paying the MF for the entire resort and would have been paying astronomical rates.

 

[jarestel]

I agree, those numbers put out by Disney are misleading. If it were the case that Disney did not "pay" for the maintenance fees on the unsold points, then initial buyers would be paying the MF for the entire resort and would have been paying astronomical rates.

Please note that nobody said that undeclared units aren't paid for, they are just not paid for through the "club".

 

[patticakeNJ]

Wow- brutal and record-breaking increases. The past 10+ years dues have generally increased 2-5% for most resorts. No resort has ever seen over a 10% increase except HHI in 2006-2007.

I find it incredibly frustrating....

 

[zavandor]

This year the total amount of mousekeeping paid by owners has increased at CCV, but total points sold have increased too so an higher total amount is split by more points.
According to owners who have seen how the MF are calculated, the cost per point for mousekeeping has not increased by 30% how it happened at other resorts.
Why?
The reason is NOT that now there are more declared points.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Regarding CCV housekeeping cost components...
The 2019 budget allocates about 1.8 times more dollars to housekeeping than the 2018 budget. The base cost per point didn't change (1.1692) but the number of points paying into housekeeping increased from 1,794,888 to 3,249,085. For sold out resorts, the points are relatively stable from year to year, so it's not really an apples to apples comparison with new resorts that are not sold out. The 2020 housekeeping budget should be more comparable to existing sold out properties.

All the rooms are being used though and being cleaned. The expectation would be that the base cost per point should have seen an increase based upon the increased wage - ie the same 30% that was more or less seen at all other resorts. That more units are declared would only affect the total dollars collected but shouldn't change the underlying base calculation cost. Those room are all being used - just not all used by the timeshare side.

 

[jarestel]

This year the total amount of mousekeeping paid by owners has increased at CCV, but total points sold have increased too so an higher total amount is split by more points.
According to owners who have seen how the MF are calculated, the cost per point for mousekeeping has not increased by 30% how it happened at other resorts.
Why?
The reason is NOT that now there are more declared points.

The reason is that there are more owners at CCV so the total dollars have increased by 180% over 2018. We can continue to dispute whether DVC is being deceptive or we could just do the math. I've chosen facts over conspiracy theories but YMMV.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

The reason is that there are more owners at CCV so the total dollars have increased by 180% over 2018. We can continue to dispute whether DVC is being deceptive or we could just do the math. I've chosen facts over conspiracy theories but YMMV.

That would mean that they were over collecting since it opened then. It's isn't the total amount - it's a calculation per point.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

The reason is that there are more owners at CCV so the total dollars have increased by 180% over 2018. We can continue to dispute whether DVC is being deceptive or we could just do the math. I've chosen facts over conspiracy theories but YMMV.

What people are saying, though, is that all of the units HAVE BEEN OWNED. By someone. And that someone has had to be paying the fees. It's one of the ways in which Disney's owned points and developer unit income is used.

When only 33% of CCV was owned, those owners were not paying 100% of operating expenses across the 100% of units (undeclared and declared).

 

[jarestel]

So there are two ways that DVC can increase revenues... 1) They can sell more points, which increases the amount of revenue in the system because more people are paying dues... or 2) they can raise member dues. I don't want to seem like I'm stating the obvious, but sold out resorts have access only to option number two.

And while I'm stating the obvious, DVD owns and is responsible for fees and maintenance for all of the units until they are declared into the timeshare, known as DVC, at which point members will begin to pay the freight. So until all units have been declared into the "club" they are in fact subsidized by the owner (DVD). It's always been this way so for folks to accuse DVC of nefarious motivations because sold out and actively selling resorts don't behave exactly the same way is simply incorrect.