Sick of being Vilified!!!

[mjkacmom]

It's not like a pay CUT; it is a pay cut. Before I was a teacher, I was an accountant, so I can find my way around a spreadsheet pretty well. Although we were never asked to take a freeze (or take a "0" as we call it), it was definitely out there. I knew it was a bad, bad idea, but just so others could see it, I ran some numbers. For a young teacher, with virtually no experience, over the course of 30 years, it would be an $80K decrease in overall earnings. If you had around 5 years experience and with a Masters, it woud be around $100K less, and if you were in the corner on our salary scale (11 years, Master's +60), it would be a $117K net reduction in earnings. For some in our union that were contemplating it, this totally swayed them the other way. This all assumed a 2% raise in every year after next year. To get this figure, I asked the people in my building who had been there over 30 years, and they thought if you averaged out 30 years, you would probably end up with 2%. This also doesn't take into account moving down the salary scale (based on number of years in service) or moving across (based on more degreees or graduate credits). Taking a "0" is a very drastic thing for a union to do and I hope that in communities where it has been done, the people are very greatful.

But many, many people who pay the property taxes that pay for the teachers are taking a pay cut. Why should teachers be exempt from this? Seriously, I don't know anyone who has gotten a raise in recent years (well, except teachers). Everyone is suffering a reduction of earnings.

 

[MM27]

In my district, the union has refused to open our contract for wage freezes. Someone in my building started a petition saying that they would like to do that to save jobs. Some of the people that did sign were getting mad at those of us that did not because they think it's going to magically save all the jobs. There are districts that did agree to a freeze but teachers are still being RIFed. Also, what people do not understand is that once the contract is reopened, ANYTHING in the contract can be changed. It took over a year for us to get our current contract signed and next year is the last year of that contract. What is the purpose of negotiating a contract if you are then going to just change your mind three years into it and change it up? We had another meeting yesterday about it and our union president stood strong on the fact that she is not opening our contract. And I agree with her.

 

[a1tinkfans]

This thread gives me a headache.

I will preface this by saying I come from a family of many teachers, different levels actually, and I have said it before, dedicated passionate teachers are AMAZING.
But all across the country people are taking Cuts and reductions, losing jobs, losing benefits, paying more for the same benefits.......Our school taxes are over 67% of our tax bill and it is OUT of control! People are just plain fed up everywhere! Pension plans and tenure need to be "reviewed." Its just my Opinion.... Okay, put on the flame suit...

 

[LaraK]

I feel for teachers...heck, my degree is in Secondary Education....but I'm not sure folks realize how very very bad it is out there right now. My husband and I both said that we'll be very happy if we just have jobs at the end of this recession. A raise just is not in the cards for us or anyone else we know. Lay-offs are happening all around us and we're in a "recession proof" state.

There is an enormous amount of waste in schools. I know I'll hear about budget cuts and leaky buildings, but honestly, the private sector has those problems too. I send in all my kids' supplies to their school. I write checks to pay for technology and playgrounds. I do this because I want my kids to have a great education and my neighbors and I do this above and beyond our taxes. Honest, we do care. All we ask is that the caring is a two way street. When we're hurting, don't hurt us more by boosting our taxes.

 

[stashbin]

I understand this completely. But what about the fact that teachers went to school to train to become teachers so they could work for those salaries and benefits? Teaching jobs aren't just given to people. They have to go to school and earn that privilege. It's almost like private sector employees are mad at government employees for being government employees.

It's bad out there for everyone. But I think the OP is just tired of being hated just because she chose to become qualified to be a teacher so she could work for the benefits that so many people are resentful that she has.[/QUOTE]

Stashbin, you hit the nail on the head... and thanks so much for being a voice here while I was in class. I posted while I was at lunch earlier and this is my first opportunity to come back here.

You are welcome! I was posting at home sick!

 

[stashbin]

I guess we need to form a "Chemistry Teachers Who Cannot Spell" club! Mabye it has something to do with the parts of the brain processing different activities?? I can solve a physics problem on the spot, but i don't write text on the board without checking!!

Would you mind saying where you teach? I think we teach in the same district.

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

I just want ask a general question to the posters on this thread.

When the economy rebounds (which it is going to do) and employers are once again giving out raises, will you be will to have your taxes go up so that teachers can get the raises that everyone else will be getting?

In this area, it doesn't matter if the economy is good or bad, people don't want to pay more for taxes to pay for teacher's salaries. Like I said, I'm just wondering what other posters think of this question.

 

[LaraK]

I just want ask a general question to the posters on this thread.

When the economy rebounds (which it is going to do) and employers are once again giving out raises, will you be will to have your taxes go up so that teachers can get the raises that everyone else will be getting?

In this area, it doesn't matter if the economy is good or bad, people don't want to pay more for taxes to pay for teacher's salaries. Like I said, I'm just wondering what other posters think of this question.

Our taxes will go up as the income portion is proportional to our salaries. Our property taxes will also rise as the housing market loosens up and the appraised values begin to rise. Add to that the possibility of upgrading your home and any capitation on your property taxes will also be nullified.

I'm not willing to have the percentage of my taxes increase until I see significant improvements in efficiency.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Wow, that's even scarier than I thought! Really puts it out there! And after reading all about the salary CC has his wife's "staff" making, I'll fight to the death to not take a wage freeze!!

Whether or not it is appropriate or not--would firing them really cover a wage increase for ALL the teachers in an entire state.

Often times we like to use those type of examples as to why we should be entitled to something....

I have no idea how many teachers are in NJ....but if you counted ALL of them, then divided into the combined salary of her staffers....
What would you get.

Let's say her 2 staffers, make $190,000 combined (per article in post 127). Let's say there are 112,000 teachers. (http://www.state.nj.us/education/data/fact.htm)

That would be a raise of a whole $1.69 per year!

It sounds great in principal---but when you get down to actual numbers, it is such a small impact to each individual teacher. Heck..it is microscopic!

To take those same 112,000 teachers and just give them a 1/2 percent raise...per year:

Based on the mean salary in above link of $57,000....$285 per year....times those 112,000 teachers...$31,920,000 per year.

Sometimes arguments sound quite fluffy when you are ticked that you aren't getting squat by way of a raise--but when you get down to the actual numbers, math can be your friend.

$31 million is a heck of a lot of money for a very tiny raise of a littel over $28/month for a 10 month pay cycle....


Getting upset over 2 staff members that are preventing you from making less than an extra $2 a year--is venting in the wrong direction.

 

[CapeMayMommy]

I think this is partly the fault of the teachers unions. "professionals" don't have unions, labor does. Teachers exist in this odd limbo where they want union benefits and contracts like labor but treated as professionals. As long as teacher unions exist, they will be treated as "labor".

And even though teachers get villified, I don't think it's teachers per se, but the union and the ridiculous contracts. As a PP stated, asking people to pay more in taxes who have already had their salaries frozen or cut in order for teachers to get salary increases and continue to have benefits like not contributing to their health insurance is going to generate a lot of negativity.

If OP wants to lay blame, start with her union rep.

The NJEA was the most feared organization in New Jersey for many years---and that says a lot in the land of Tony Soprano, where 95% of the people believe Jimmy Hoffa was buried under the goal post of the Meadowlands.

 

[mjkacmom]

I just want ask a general question to the posters on this thread.

When the economy rebounds (which it is going to do) and employers are once again giving out raises, will you be will to have your taxes go up so that teachers can get the raises that everyone else will be getting?

In this area, it doesn't matter if the economy is good or bad, people don't want to pay more for taxes to pay for teacher's salaries. Like I said, I'm just wondering what other posters think of this question.

This year has the least amount of school budgets passing than ever, with record number of voters coming out for the elections. In our town, the budget almost always passes, but not this year. Here in NJ, in the towns where teachers accepted a one year freeze, most of the budgets passed. Those that didn't accept a freeze, they didn't. The people of NJ are trying to send a message to teachers and union reps. We have a 10% unemployment rate, the hightest property taxes in the nation, and have been hit hard by Governor Christie, and the recession. I guess if you don't live here, you don't understand what's going on right now here.

 

[mom2aredhead]

The NJEA was the most feared organization in New Jersey for many years---and that says a lot in the land of Tony Soprano, where 95% of the people believe Jimmy Hoffa was buried under the goal post of the Meadowlands.

 

[Jen414]

FYI--Many teachers may be on April vacation this week and that may be why they are posting in the middle of the day. It doesn't mean that we're just sitting at our desks on the internet. Also, we do have a lunch every day as well as a planning period. Just saying!

 

[jazzielady]

:! Pension plans and tenure need to be "reviewed." Its just my Opinion.... Okay, put on the flame suit...

Respectfully snipped.

I already addressed pension plans as they are administered in the state of PA earlier in this thread.

In PA (can't speak for all states), tenure was initiated as a guarantee of a job the following year, IF the teacher performed satisfactorily the previous year.
Prior to tenure, districts would officially fire all their teachers, then try to hire new teachers at a lower salary. If they couldn't find anyone for your position, then you were rehired. It also protects you from a vindictive administrator who maybe just doesn't like your style, even if you are a productive, effective teacher.

 

[SusanWasHere]

Whether or not it is appropriate or not--would firing them really cover a wage increase for ALL the teachers in an entire state.

Often times we like to use those type of examples as to why we should be entitled to something....

I have no idea how many teachers are in NJ....but if you counted ALL of them, then divided into the combined salary of her staffers....
What would you get.

Let's say her 2 staffers, make $190,000 combined (per article in post 127). Let's say there are 112,000 teachers. (http://www.state.nj.us/education/data/fact.htm)

That would be a raise of a whole $1.69 per year!

It sounds great in principal---but when you get down to actual numbers, it is such a small impact to each individual teacher. Heck..it is microscopic!

To take those same 112,000 teachers and just give them a 1/2 percent raise...per year:

Based on the mean salary in above link of $57,000....$285 per year....times those 112,000 teachers...$31,920,000 per year.

Sometimes arguments sound quite fluffy when you are ticked that you aren't getting squat by way of a raise--but when you get down to the actual numbers, math can be your friend.

$31 million is a heck of a lot of money for a very tiny raise of a littel over $28/month for a 10 month pay cycle....


Getting upset over 2 staff members that are preventing you from making less than an extra $2 a year--is venting in the wrong direction.

I am not thinking that their salary would help anyone. My problem is that CC has gone on and on about lazy overpaid teachers that don't do anything. And yet he hired someone to update his facebook and twitter that makes more than most teachers. And his wife's two assistants?? What are they really doing to JUSTIFY those salaries? They need to make 6 figures? How about he has them earn what a starting teacher makes? I doubt they work 1/10 as hard as most teachers. They are probably friends/relatives of his and he gave them an inflated very large salary - and I'm sure a pension to go with it. THAT is my issue. It has nothing to do with taking their salaries to cover teacher raises. It isn't what I said at all. He doesn't practice what he preaches. And it's the old pot calling the kettle black. So I appreciate your computations - but they were not necessary as that wasn't my point.

 

[CapeMayMommy]

Does anyone else remember last year when the paramedics training fund was drastically cut here in New Jersey?

You know paramedics---the non-unionized, extremely low paid people who will come and pick you up when you are having a heart attack or bleeding to death on the highway. Last year, the budget was balanced on their backs.

At that time, the teacher's union, and the other unions were still singing their "we work hard and should not have to pay for our benefits and should get raises no matter what..." song.

I am a big believer that the time has come for everyone to share the pain---unionized or not. (by the way---I also believe it's time for the wealthy to share the pain, also.)

 

[dicar123]

Lets get down to brass tacks here. Where is the money supposed to come from? After all the lost jobs, the pay cuts, the ruined investments, where is the money to pay teachers MORE going to come from?

Our income is already down 10% after 5-6 years of no raise at all. It doesn't matter how much I value education, if I don't have the money, I don't have the money.

We cannot afford to pay public sector employees higher salaries than average AND benefits that vastly outstrip those in the private sector. That is simply unsustainable.

 

[MM27]

What makes me mad is that Christie seems to have all this hatred towards teachers but there is no mention of other state workers.

Denville police just signed a new contract. 13% increases over the entire contract. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/denville_gives_cops_contract_w.html

 

[CapeMayMommy]

What makes me mad is that Christie seems to have all this hatred towards teachers but there is no mention of other state workers.

Denville police just signed a new contract. 13% increases over the entire contract. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/denville_gives_cops_contract_w.html

wow...

The town of Galloway, in Atlantic county, had such a budget shortfall that they were going to lay off 20 police officers. That was 1/3 of the force in a town with a lot of square miles.

The union reopened negotiations and every officer on the force took a paycut. In the end, 18 of the 20 jobs were saved.

The pain does not seem to be evenly spread, does it.