Should the big3 get a bailout??

[minnie61650]

If my company goes bankrupt is the government going to save my job...NO...if the small business owner goes bankrupt because he mismangaed his money and 5-10 employees lose their jobs, is the government going to save their jobs...NO...why should the "Big 3" be any different!!!!!!!!...don't forget we've already given these morons $25 BILLION dollars

NO! NO! NO! The Big 3 did not get $25 billion!!!

DH owns his own company with over 50 employess and if his company goes bankrupt than yes over 50 employees will lose their jobs.

If GM were to go bankrupt than 2-3 million will lose their jobs.


1 out 10 jobs are dependant on our auto industry.
I think that if 1 out 10 people lost their jobs it would have a pretty big effect on our economy!

Sen. Carl Levin, D-Michigan, is drafting legislation to throw a lifeline to Detroit, Michigan, home of the Big Three companies.

"One out of 10 jobs in this country are auto-related. Twenty percent of retail sales are auto-related or automobiles, so this is a national problem," Levin told NBC's "Meet the Press" on Sunday. Watch what some say are the costs of letting the Big Three fail »

Link:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/17/big.three.auto.bailout/

Plus all of the auto companies located in the US are inter related not just the Detroit 3.


How a GM, Chrysler or Ford bankrupcy would impact every Asian and European manufacturer operating in North America

Ripple effect seen if GM, Chrysler or Ford goes bankrupt
December 4, 2008

A bankruptcy filing by General Motors Corp., Chrysler LLC or Ford Motor Co. would have an immediate impact on every Asian and European manufacturer operating in North America because of their dependence on parts suppliers used by the domestic automotive industry.


For example, 58% of GM's North American suppliers also supply parts to Asian automakers, according to research conducted by automotive consulting firm CSM Worldwide.

Among Chrysler's suppliers, 59% also supply Asian automakers and among Ford suppliers, the figure is 65%.

"The bankruptcy of a major automaker won't be just a Detroit problem or a Michigan problem," Craig Cather, CSM's president and CEO, said in a statement. "The pain will quickly spread to the Southern states that have new foreign-owned auto plants, as well as Canada and Mexico."

Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. have made similar statements.

Link:

http://www.freep.com/article/20081204/BUSINESS01/81203133/1014/BUSINESS01

 

[LotsOfQuestions]

There was no choice for me to vote.

I support the Big 3 bailout, but only after they file Chapter 11. They need a means to get out from under oppressing contracts and need the oversight of the bankruptcy court to emerge leaner and more efficient.

 

[minnie61650]

.....3. ...they are kicking the big 3's rear ends in TOTAL car sales...go to any Honda dealership and their slaesmen are balls to the walls while the Big 3 dealerships are closing down left and right.

:

FYI:

I hate to burst your bubble but Toyota and Honda sales are down.

Despite the steep drop, GM's total was enough to keep it ahead of Toyota Motor Corp. for the No. 1 U.S. sales spot. Toyota sold 152,101 vehicles, down from 197,592 in October 2007. The drop included a 34 percent decline in light truck demand, while car sales fell 15 percent.

Honda Motor Co. sold 85,864 vehicles as its truck sales fell 29 percent.

LinK:

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/nati...october_sales_dropped_30_percent_200811031220

 

[Disneyadore]

Bail out is just a nice wrapping for protectionism.

The big 3 will use the bail out to dump there cars at any price on the market.
This will effect the other car companies ,first in America than in the rest of the world.

This protectionism will created another world wide crisis and in the long run will return to us as a boomerang,will explode in our own faces and will cost us much more.

 

[kydisneyfans]

As long as it is a loan only, AND the UAW is forced to renegotiate contracts, then I am OK with it.

I still say that the $4.00 gas from the summer was the breaking point in our economy. Everyone stopped buying because all the money was used for fuel. Nobody bought higher profit margin SUV's since it cost $100 just for a tank of gas. It was a downward spiral from there.

 

[MsDisney23]

I think the big 3 need to sell their private jets and not just park them.

 

[minnie61650]

I think the big 3 need to sell their private jets and not just park them.

GM & Ford are selling their private jet fleet:

GM, Ford Will Sell Corporate Jet Fleet
For CEOs, First Class Will Have To Be Good Enough
By BRIAN ROSS and CHARLES HERMAN
December 2, 2008


Ford and General Motors will sell their fleet of corporate luxury jets, the two struggling auto companies announced today.

GM CEO Rick Wagoner flew on this company jet to a hearing in Washington earlier this month at an estimated cost of $20,000.
(ABC)The move comes two weeks after ABC News revealed Ford CEO Alan Mulally, GM CEO Rick Wagoner and Chrysler CEO Robert Nardelli traveled to Washington in private jets to plead poverty and ask Congress for $25 billion in taxpayer money.



In a statement, GM said, "Due to significant cutbacks over the past months, GM travel volume no longer justified a dedicated corporate aircraft operation."

Link:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6376167&page=1

 

[JonS99]

For as many people that got in over their heads there are people that got scammed by fly by night mortgage companies...you have to take the good with the bad in that case...and if it saves one of the homeowners that got bamboozled then it's worth it to me...I'd rather save that homeowner than some friggin car company that paid their CEO $22 MILION dollars a year to lead them into the toilet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So we should help out people that were too dumb to get a mortgage they could afford or too dumb to know exactly what kind of mortgage it is, but we shouldn't help out an industry that provides millions of jobs?

 

[LisaB]

First of all it isn't a bailout it is a loan Secondly why shouldn't we give the big 3 a loan we can gave wall street 750 BILLION for God's sake. Did those CEO's come to DC with private jets?? What about there bonuses that they got year after year. How about the spa convention that AIG had? I guess that wasn't wasteful since they didn't want to disappoint anyone.

 

[corndog]

First of all it isn't a bailout it is a loan Secondly why shouldn't we give the big 3 a loan we can gave wall street 750 BILLION for God's sake. Did those CEO's come to DC with private jets?? What about there bonuses that they got year after year. How about the spa convention that AIG had? I guess that wasn't wasteful since they didn't want to disappoint anyone.

I assume you have learned somewhere along the way that two wrongs do not make a right? Plus, while I am 100% against any bailout of any kind, the credit/mortgage in one is at least somewhat justifiable because the so-called credit crisis/mortgage meltdown was caused by the federal government.

 

[minnie61650]

.....the credit/mortgage in one is at least somewhat justifiable because the so-called credit crisis/mortgage meltdown was caused by the federal government.

The credit crisis is also directly responsible for the Big 3 auto crisis:

The world automobile industry is being hard hit by the current credit crisis, it was reported Friday, with manufacturing giants Ford and General Motors (GM) singled out as facing difficulties financing their operations.

According to the report, which appeared in the New York Times, GM and Ford have been hit by the perfect storm of diminished cash flow due to falling sales and an inability to raise funds in the credit crunch.

Link:

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/n...h_slams_world_auto_industry_GM_Ford_hard_hit_

 

[AJ102]

Yes. A quarter million jobs would be directly lost from a large scale big 3 bankruptcy, and 1 million to 2 million would be lost secondarily. The nation would spiral into depression. A bailout will help the stock market, and incentives to buy American cars would help the economy.

After Sept. 11th, each of the big three automakers gave the red cross $10 million. Foreign car manufacturers gave nothing. It's time we started supporting our own companies and our own workers.

As for the banks, can we get that money back or stop Paulsen from handing out the rest?

 

[corndog]

Yes. A quarter million jobs would be directly lost from a large scale big 3 bankruptcy, and 1 million to 2 million would be lost secondarily. The nation would spiral into depression. A bailout will help the stock market, and incentives to buy American cars would help the economy.

After Sept. 11th, each of the big three automakers gave the red cross $10 million. Foreign car manufacturers gave nothing. It's time we started supporting our own companies and our own workers.

As for the banks, can we get that money back or stop Paulsen from handing out the rest?

This is just nonsense.

 

[minnie61650]

Yes. A quarter million jobs would be directly lost from a large scale big 3 bankruptcy, and 1 million to 2 million would be lost secondarily. The nation would spiral into depression. A bailout will help the stock market, and incentives to buy American cars would help the economy.

I agree.

Report: 3 Million Jobs Lost if Detroit's Big Three Fail
The Center for Automotive Research said this morning that if Detroit's (former) Big Three -- GM, Ford and Chrysler -- fail, it will mean the loss of 3 million jobs across the entire auto sector in the first year of collapse.

Should Detroit production drop by 50 percent -- suppose the failure of one of the Big Three and a merger between the other two and subsequent contraction -- some 2.5 million jobs would be lost, the report says.

"To permit any of the Detroit Three manufacturers to collapse would scar the U.S. economy further at a time when it can ill afford another blow," David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, said in a statement. "The likelihood of one or two of the Detroit Three manufacturers ending operations is very real."

GM and Chrysler are in merger talks and are asking the government for money to facilitate the tie-up.

Ford is struggling with a low stock price and a major investor -- nonagenarian billionaire Kirk Kerkorian -- who's dumping all his shares.

-- Frank Ahrens

Link:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/economy-watch/2008/11/report_3m_jobs_lost_with_autom.html

 

[corndog]

I agree.



Link:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/economy-watch/2008/11/report_3m_jobs_lost_with_autom.html

I see the "Center for Automotive Research" is funded by Ford, General Motors and the State of Michigan. What else do you expect them to say?

http://www.cargroup.org/documents/CopyofCARFundingSources4.pdf

 

[minnie61650]

Another report:

If the Big Three carmakers were to cut U.S. operations by 50%, 2.5 million jobs could be lost in 2009, according to a study released Wednesday.

The Center for Automotive Research reported that the total employment impact includes nearly 250,000 jobs lost at the automakers and nearly 800,000 at suppliers.
In addition, the organization estimates another 1.4 million job losses outside the industry, such as those caused when stores go out of business in communities hit by plant closings.

In economic terms, cutting operations in half would reduce personal income by more than $125.1 billion in the first year, and $275.7 billion over three years, the center said. Such a decline in personal income would cost the government tax dollars -- $49.9 billion in 2009 and more than $108.1 billion over three years.

Automakers GM (GM, Fortune 500), Ford (F, Fortune 500) and Chrysler employ hundreds of thousands of well-paid workers and support far more retirees and their families with health care and other benefits. In addition, dozens of suppliers and thousands of dealerships depend on the Big Three.

"The likelihood of one or two of the Detroit Three manufacturers ending operations is very real," David Cole, chairman of the center, said in a statement.

But a larger fear is a complete shutdown. A 100% reduction in Big Three operations would cost about 3 million jobs in the first year alone.

"A complete shutdown of Detroit Three U.S. production would have a major impact on the U.S. economy in terms of lost wages, reductions in social security receipts, personal income taxes paid, and an increase in transfer payments," Sean McAlinden, the center's chief economist, said in a statement. "The government stands to lose on the level of $60 billion in the first year alone, and the three year total is well over $156 billion."

Year to date, the auto industry has announced 110,610 job cuts, more than double than the same period in the year before, and the highest of any industry with the exception of finance, according to a report released Wednesday by global outplacement firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas.

More than 15,000 layoffs were announced in the automotive industry in October alone, the report said.

Link:


http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/05/autos/auto_job_losses/

 

[minnie61650]

I see the "Center for Automotive Research" is funded by Ford, General Motors and the State of Michigan. What else do you expect them to say?

http://www.cargroup.org/documents/CopyofCARFundingSources4.pdf

I am thinking the truth!
I think they are most likely to know to the numbers involved in the auto inustry.

 

[corndog]

Another report:



Link:


http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/05/autos/auto_job_losses/

That's the same source. Posting it twice doesn't make it more credible.

 

[minnie61650]

That's the same source. Posting it twice doesn't make it more credible.

It offers more info.

 

[LotsOfQuestions]

First of all it isn't a bailout it is a loan Secondly why shouldn't we give the big 3 a loan we can gave wall street 750 BILLION for God's sake. Did those CEO's come to DC with private jets?? What about there bonuses that they got year after year. How about the spa convention that AIG had? I guess that wasn't wasteful since they didn't want to disappoint anyone.

Wall Street hasn't gotten the whole 700 Billion yet. In fact, the auto bailout money would be part of that.

The big 3 bailout supporters keep stressing that the auto industry is failing because customers can't get loans for the cars because of the credit crunch. Yet they keep bashing the bailout of the credit crunch.

We start the money flowing again by bailing out the banks. Now the customers can buy cars again and since this was the reason according to the big 3 bailout supporters for the auto industry failure (not quality or anything else), if the customers can buy cars again, things will be great, no bailout needed.