Should teacher be fired

[LisaR]

Wow! Some of you teachers are really getting the short end of the stick. Some of this behavior (attendance issues, grading policies, ESL students, LD, etc) seem common place in certain schools/districts. Do any of you think it is time we train up coming teachers differently? We can't fix living conditions or parental involvement in some of these situations but we can show new teachers how to teach a classroom full of students with multiple problems. I am always reminded of teachers like Ron Clark, Joe Clark, Erin Gruwell, etc. Maybe it is time we teach teachers HOW to teach these kids. Everyone of you in problem schools said something like, "it isn't an excuse, it is a reality." If this is truly what you are dealing with and you aren't able to make any headway, it seems like we need to change the message. Normal teaching techniques are not going to work with these kids. It seems like it is time for a new approach.

 

[MM27]

Unfortunately they do not prepare you in college for what it will be like in this type of school/district. I had a professor in grad school that was shocked with some of the things I brought up in class. I student taught in an upper middle class suburban school. My first year in the classroom was total culture shock. But you know what? I'm still there 10 years later.

Yes there are challenges, but for every challenge you have a high point where you see that you make a difference. We were talking about diameter and radius today in math and I pointed out another line on the circle. One of my students yelled out "Oh, I know, that's a chord" It's the little things like that that make my day.

I don't have a problem with monitoring growth. I have a problem with people judging me by a number on a child's test. Our President, the Secretary of Education and here in NJ, our new governor seem to have a one size fits all type of educational philosophy. I wish these people would actually talk to teachers before they come up with these absurd policies.

 

[etoiles]

I taught for five years in an alternative school in a very low income area of Chicago. The school was for students who dropped out of school or were kicked out of school and wanted a second chance at education.

Most of the kids were there because of problems with attendance and so we had very low attendance. Of course, if you are only going to school 50% of the time you can guess what your grade will be (and never do any make up work or stay after school which 99% did not do) since 50% is not passing.

The adminstration constantly threatened to fire us because enough kids were not passing but what could you do if the school's attendance was so terrible?? The admin had zero ideas how to solve that. IF the kids are not there they would get zeros on missed/incomplete work and like I said 99% did not do any make up work or stay after school.

The teachers (myself included) called every day home to let parents know that the kids were absent and it did zero good. I even had a parent one time say, "Oh? Johnny's not in school? Maybe he's in his bedroom let me check..... JOHNNNY!!!! *knock knock*" Are you kidding me that I have to call you to let you know your kid's in his bedroom in your home????????!?!?

Needless to say I am not working there anymore but now they have teachers there that have no problems giving ALL of their students A's even if they are there once in a fortnight. Well, you can guess how much that diploma will count for!

 

[castleview]

Unfortunately they do not prepare you in college for what it will be like in this type of school/district. I had a professor in grad school that was shocked with some of the things I brought up in class. I student taught in an upper middle class suburban school. My first year in the classroom was total culture shock. But you know what? I'm still there 10 years later..

Classroom Management is lacking from most college curriculums these days. Student Teacher Mentors notice that right away.

Anyway as one who taught in an inner city school (in a past life), I know it's rewards. Reading some of the posts brings back vivid memories of the difficulties teachers and kids deal with. Kudos to all of you for the will to keep going amid all the silliness politicians put upon you.

I know my husband's school has the highest dropout rate in our state. The town constantly complains about what an awful job the schools are doing. Yet they never mention that the town will not fund a summer school or alternative school program to help alleviate that.

 

[luvsJack]

yes I admit that, you are right the blame can't be placed solely on the teacher or the parent. However I am a firm believer that its my job as a parent to make sure my child is the best student they can be, its not the teachers.




Because when someone is selected to be on a sports team its done because they have the ability to excell at their sport and were chosen because of it. Students aren't selected. If students were hand picked, then we wouldn't be having these kinds of problems

I also would argue that teaching in the classroom isn't the only thing that equals success. There needs to be accountability and support at home for a student to succeed, there is only so much a teacher can do without it being backed up at home. I am not saying there aren't bad teachers, I just don't think that the majority of classes that are failing can put the blame solely on the teacher, and I certainly don't believe that they should be fired based on standardized test grades, or 1 year of poor student performance.
Now in the case of your niece that very well may have been the teacher, but if all her students ended up with a B after she corrected her probelm, why do you think she should have been fired?

I don't think she should have been fired. I would have IF she had not corrected the problem. She did and all was well for that year anyway. I have been told that the problem has continued so we will see what happens this year.

I agree that a certain amount of teaching and re-enforcing what the teacher has taught has to come from home. And I agree with you that it is the parents responsibility to make sure their child is doing everything possible to succeed in school. It is the parent's responsibility to make sure the child is in school and ready to learn, it is the parent's responsibility to monitor what their child is doing and to make sure they are completing assignments and taking their education seriously and to get their child any help they need or to crack the whip (so to speak) when their child needs it. But if an entire class or even the majority of a class is failing, chances are the problem lies in the classroom; maybe its not the teacher maybe it is the text book or some environmental thing going in the classroom, but still in the classroom. Even to say several children are failing could certainly be completely put on the shoulders of the failing student's parents, but not an entire class.

As for the coach I mentioned, I am talking about jr. high football coaches where every kid that wants to play is put on the team; he is still expected to win. I didn't mean pro coaches or college coaches.

ETA: I do not think a teacher should be fired, reprimanded, observed or even talked to about a standardized test score. Standardized tests should have been done away with a long, long time ago.

 

[luvmy3]

I don't think she should have been fired. I would have IF she had not corrected the problem. She did and all was well for that year anyway. I have been told that the problem has continued so we will see what happens this year.

I agree that a certain amount of teaching and re-enforcing what the teacher has taught has to come from home. But if an entire class or even the majority of a class is failing, chances are the problem lies in the classroom; maybe its not the teacher maybe it is the text book or some environmental thing going in the classroom, but still in the classroom. Even to say several children are failing could certainly be completely put on the shoulders of the failing student's parents, but not an entire class.

As for the coach I mentioned, I am talking about jr. high football coaches where every kid that wants to play is put on the team; he is still expected to win. I didn't mean pro coaches or college coaches.

I'm sorry I misread your post, I didn't see that IF in it.
I know you were talking about school team coaches, the school teams here are not open to everyone, the kids have to try out and make the team so that is why I answered the way I did.

I think there have been a few teachers here who have explained why you can't always blame the teacher even if the majority of the students are failing. It does seem like most of us here are on the same page in our thinking that a teacher shouldn't be fired just because of test grades, or failing students without a proper evaluation of all the factors that could lead to those things.

 

[Birdman1511]

I'm not a teacher or anything, but if I my state my opinion, I think as much as its a teacher's job to educate, its the student's job to decide if he/she wants to work hard and achieve good grades... therefore, im 100% against it.

 

[pigletz]

I don't think she should have been fired. I would have IF she had not corrected the problem. She did and all was well for that year anyway. I have been told that the problem has continued so we will see what happens this year.

I agree that a certain amount of teaching and re-enforcing what the teacher has taught has to come from home. And I agree with you that it is the parents responsibility to make sure their child is doing everything possible to succeed in school. It is the parent's responsibility to make sure the child is in school and ready to learn, it is the parent's responsibility to monitor what their child is doing and to make sure they are completing assignments and taking their education seriously and to get their child any help they need or to crack the whip (so to speak) when their child needs it. But if an entire class or even the majority of a class is failing, chances are the problem lies in the classroom; maybe its not the teacher maybe it is the text book or some environmental thing going in the classroom, but still in the classroom. Even to say several children are failing could certainly be completely put on the shoulders of the failing student's parents, but not an entire class.

As for the coach I mentioned, I am talking about jr. high football coaches where every kid that wants to play is put on the team; he is still expected to win. I didn't mean pro coaches or college coaches.

ETA: I do not think a teacher should be fired, reprimanded, observed or even talked to about a standardized test score. Standardized tests should have been done away with a long, long time ago.

Most of my 1st period class is failing. I opened my attendance book just to make sure that I get this right. I have 37 students in that class. School starts at 8:15 and when I took attendance at 8:20 or so there were 6 students in class. By the end of class at 9:10, I had 22 students. Many of those students didn't arrive until 9:00 or so. That's 15 students that missed my class today. There was nothing special about today. No rain or snow or bug going around, it was just a typical day. Tomorrow, I'll have roughly the same amount of students. The same 6 will be there on time and who knows which other ones will make it. Do you know how difficult it is to teach when students are constantly coming into class late? I spend a lot of time planning exciting and engaging lessons that are completely lost this class because of attendance. Even simple lessons are difficult when I have to catch up half the class. Of course, I'll make phone calls this week and remind parents yet again about attendance. I'll get a few half hearted promises that things will change, a whole bunch of disconnected numbers, and at least one parent will tell me that I'm lucky their child comes to school at all (or something similar). Of course since we don't have a method for parents to let us know when their child will be out there will be some legitimate reasons for absences. I might think that this was a problem with my classroom if it wasn't the case in every room in our building. When half the school is failing first period, you don't have a teacher problem, you have an administration problem.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

A lot of programs are changing how teachers are trained. The emphasis right now is moving towards brain science and really studying how learners learn best and how to engage students. At least in my program, classroom management was a very big aspect and we had many many different classroom experiences before we even student taught. (By which time we were provisionally certified.)

The problem is that there is only so much you can do. Kid is hungry all the time? I can give them a snack, and they get a free lunch, but I can't force a parent to feed them at home. Kids miss multiple days a week? We can have the social worker talk to the parents, we can send home notices, we can call the truancy court. But we can't physically go there and drag them out of bed. I would love to have been able to take in my student who was placed in a foster home. I came very close to doing it. But in the end I had to admit to myself it was a bad idea.

I'm not trying to knock Erin Gruwell or any of the others, but typically you have a perfect storm that brings out these situations. Often later classes with the same teachers are not nearly as successful as the initial class. In fact, Erin Gruwell did not stay with the job long. She followed that particular class to college. Again, that is not to say that they didn't do amazing things. But it isn't as black and white as it appears. If you remember Jaime Escalante (Stand and Deliver) he had a group of motivated, somewhat gifted students who agreed to come to summer school, weekend classes, etc.

The fact is, most teachers are working very hard to help students overcome barriers. But for maximum learning to occur, the entire community needs to be invested in it. This includes the teachers, students, parents, and community at large. That I think is the biggest issue facing education right now. We are placing the burden of learning solely on teachers and allowing everyone else to abdicate their responsibility in the process.

Are there bad teachers? Absolutely. But judging off of one test without looking at all of the factors is not going to solve the problem. Many schools, particularly schools that serve areas with a high poverty rate, are being asked to be everything to these kids. But the funding is getting less and less. Teachers are having to do a lot more with a lot less. Class sizes are getting bigger as districts are being forced to lay off staff. This means not only fewer teachers, but fewer paras to work with students with special needs, fewer classified staff to maintain buildings, etc. It also means less supplies unless the teacher spends their own money.

 

[LisaR]

Most of my 1st period class is failing. I opened my attendance book just to make sure that I get this right. I have 37 students in that class. School starts at 8:15 and when I took attendance at 8:20 or so there were 6 students in class. By the end of class at 9:10, I had 22 students. Many of those students didn't arrive until 9:00 or so. That's 15 students that missed my class today. There was nothing special about today. No rain or snow or bug going around, it was just a typical day. Tomorrow, I'll have roughly the same amount of students. The same 6 will be there on time and who knows which other ones will make it. Do you know how difficult it is to teach when students are constantly coming into class late? I spend a lot of time planning exciting and engaging lessons that are completely lost this class because of attendance. Even simple lessons are difficult when I have to catch up half the class. Of course, I'll make phone calls this week and remind parents yet again about attendance. I'll get a few half hearted promises that things will change, a whole bunch of disconnected numbers, and at least one parent will tell me that I'm lucky their child comes to school at all (or something similar). Of course since we don't have a method for parents to let us know when their child will be out there will be some legitimate reasons for absences. I might think that this was a problem with my classroom if it wasn't the case in every room in our building. When half the school is failing first period, you don't have a teacher problem, you have an administration problem.

Wow! Just wow. This is inexcusable. What is the teacher's union for? Isn't this exactly the type of thing they should be helping you with? This cycle needs to be broken now. This is the type of thing that needs to be making national headlines if the local board won't make any changes. I would not be able to sit back and do nothing. I would either work to fix this or quit.

 

[Zuzu03]

Here in Vermont we have Town Meeting Day (today). The town voters get to come in and discuss and vote on the town budget, school budget, issues, etc. In the town of the school where I teach, less than 10% of the voters showed up (mind you it's during the DAY, when most people work!) and they rejected our school budget. I guess it was really hostile - they were insulting the school and teachers and bemoaning the fact that our students did not fare well on the state standardized math test. Their answer was to level fund the school (mind you we were not asking for raises - we were asking for $400,000 to fund those positions that were grant-funded last year and are not this: social worker, drug counselor, etc.). They didn't think that we "deserved" a bigger budget when our students did so poorly on the NECAPs. I'm not sure that cutting the budget is going to make a big difference in our kids' performance on the NECAPs (most students admit they don't try at all on them, they don't see the point), but maybe I'm missing something. As so many PPs have said, it's not one thing you can pinpoint that is the problem - the teacher ends up being a scapegoat, very sad. I teach French and Theatre, I could easily end up on the chopping block, but by golly, they won't cut the extracurricular activities!

So, in the end, we missed a day of instruction so that a fraction of the voters could come in and complain about said instruction. Does anyone else see the irony here?

 

[mumom95]

This was on Fox Friends, about teacher being fired if there students aren't passing.

What do you all think? I'm against this there are so many reason why kids fail. It hardly fair to blame the teacher.

Only if you can fire the parents also. In my opinion if a student is failing it says a lot more about the parents and child than it does about the teacher.